Thinking strongly about ordering the CCX

[SirJonathan]

Long time bicyclist here. Have had probably 30 bikes in the past few years. Was into some serious road riding around 5 years ago - got hit by a car on PCH in Huntington Beach and lost my love for cycling. It's coming back now and I enjoy my beach cruiser and CAAD12 road bike.

I've been researching the heck out of electric bikes. I'd love to ride one up a few hills and with the MUPs, trails and ample road bike paths I could use all of the different modes available on the CCX to utilize each of those.

I'm concerned with a couple things. I see a lot of issues here on this forum. I'm no stranger to the concept of forums and issues. We own two Teslas - one purchased back in 2012 so I'm well aware of the early-adopter syndrome. I'm also very accepting of it for a company I strongly believe in.

My main concern with Juiced is that some of the negative feedback I've seen have dealt with the quality of the components. I've read everything from "pure junk" to "recycled garbage" to "bottom of the barrel components". Now this could be a competitor, disgruntled employee or just a flat out troll having some Internet fun.

Your reviews here are enlightening. $2500 for a bike is not trivial. My CAAD12 is a proven product and was something like $1800 for Ultegra specs. There are so many choices it's nearly overwhelming. Stromer is expensive. I looked at the Vado and it's expensive and limited in range. I like the integration it has, however.

I'm wondering about support as well. I watched all Juiced's setup videos. Seems simple. I'm no idiot when it comes to bike maintenance but I'm far from an expert. I can change a cassette and adjust brakes, change tires and fine-tune my riding position specifications but that's pretty much it. When it comes to bike motors - I'm in trouble. I know very little.

So I'd be dependent upon Juiced for support when things go wrong. Apparently they are very busy which is a good thing. But waiting three weeks for a call back or an email response, or a month for a part replacement isn't going to work for me. I'm about an hour north of Chula Vista so I have geography on my side. I could even pick my bike up instead of wait for delivery and save them on that cost.

Basically this is just an introductory post with some concerns. Love the specs of the bike and the reviews and real-world experiences this forum allows potential customers like myself to ponder over.

The wait is a concern as well. I've seen online conversations where people are bummed and say the CCX was pushed back and their order won't be delivered until October. Well now it's December. It would be two months before I even receive a bike.

Well I waited 2 years for a Model 3 so maybe I'll stick it out.

Anyway, please keep the reviews and information coming. I hope you know how helpful they are.

 

[Dunbar]

I’ve had my original Cross Current for 2 1/2 years and recently upgraded it to the CCS controller. You might want to go down to SD and take one for a long test drive. I have a road cycling background and I think that my next e-bike will be a mid-drive. They leverage the motor power through the chain and cassette so they feel a bit more natural IMO. The problem is that they are currently expensive and, for the most part, underpowered with generally small batteries for what you pay. At least for the good torque sensing class 3 mid-drive e-bikes that I would consider buying. The CCS/CCX are an absolute bargain when you factor in the motor power and battery capacity you get for the price. I haven’t ridden the CCX but with the CC/CCS they aren’t super responsive below 15mph. I believe it’s due to the gearing on the rear hub motor which is setup for high speed cruising which causes them to be kind of lacking in low-end torque. If you do a lot slowing down and speeding up it can start to feel sluggish. The throttle does help (throttle + pedaling at the same time) and above 15mph it’s an absolute rocket ship on the highest assist level (I’m sure even more so on the CCX.) The only real downside to support is answers can slow but they usually do get the issue fixed. However, if you can’t ride your bike because you’ve got an open support ticket that you’re going back and forth on I can imagine that would be annoying.

 

[SirJonathan]

Thank you Dunbar. Valuable information. I have read a lot about hub-drive vs mid-drive. I also watched the controller video that Juiced has regarding using the combination of throttle + pedal assist to achieve that "off the line" power required sometimes. Mid-drive seems to really eat through chains and cassettes and I'm not sure I want to be changing those at regular intervals. The Specialized Vado is mid-drive but underpowered. Reviews seem good. Range seems adequate. Price seems a little crazy ($3500 for the Vado 3 and it's their middle-of-the-road bike). The CCX is a grand less than that and way more powerful and with heaps more battery life and range. I appreciate your input.

 

[Feliz]

I bought a CCS and I have no dealer near me, I have no regrets. Living where you do it's a no-brainer, get a CCX. The CCX is a bargain if not a steal. Good luck.

 

[Chris Hammond]

So I will chime in for you as well. I bought a CCS and received it in May of this year (CCX was not available yet back then.) FWIW, I did month's of research before buying, and several test rides on other bikes.
I have been extremely pleased with my CCS. I have put ~ 4800 miles on it since May. (The cold and snow have really cut into my bike commuting.) Honestly, the component complaints I think are largely from "bike snobs" who think if you aren't running top shelf components you are riding a POS. Simply put the biggest difference between component levels is weight and price. In a bike that weighs ~60#, a few ounces doesn't mean anything.
I own ~ 15 bikes, my roadie has ultegra, and my MTB has Deore XT. The components on the CCS/X are MTB derived. The brakes on the CCS are every bit as good as the XT's on my Pivot. The derailleur has worked flawlessly as well, the only thing it is missing is a "clutch" which would eliminate chain drops. (I put a chain catcher on my CCS, and I believe the CCX has one stock).
You can search my posts on this forum, I have detailed my experience on the CCS to a large degree.
These bikes are built for speed. If you like riding at 30 mph, you'll love it. If you really only plan on riding at 20 and using assist for hill climbing, the bike will be fine, but there are others that may be more enjoyable.

 

[Feliz]

Chris, it was your positive reports that were a large influence in me purchasing my CCS, I certainly have no complaints. I can't hold a candle to your 15 bikes but I have 7, two conventional and five eBikes and my CCS has become my favourite.

 

[hurricane56]

I wouldn’t call myself a giant fan of Juiced Bikes but I do own a HF1000. I had a mixed experience with the quality of the bike and customer service. With the HF line of bikes, I think they were rushed out the door. However a friend just bought a CCX and is very happy with it. Juiced bikes has had some customer service issues, mainly around the responsiveness of the support team. I follow the forums regularly, and it appears that customer service gripes have reduced.

The mid drive vs hub drive debate will always rage on, but I feel a lot more partial to hub drive motors due the lack of wear on drive train components. After putting down 5000 miles on my Bosch powered Haibike, it’s worn out two cassettes, two chains, and the chain ring.

The friend that did buy the CCX asked me what bike I would have picked after test riding different brands. I think if I would have started out with a CCX, it would have taken care of most of my commute needs.

 

[jom]

Long time bicyclist here. Have had probably 30 bikes in the past few years. Was into some serious road riding around 5 years ago - got hit by a car on PCH in Huntington Beach and lost my love for cycling. It's coming back now and I enjoy my beach cruiser and CAAD12 road bike.

I've been researching the heck out of electric bikes. I'd love to ride one up a few hills and with the MUPs, trails and ample road bike paths I could use all of the different modes available on the CCX to utilize each of those.

I'm concerned with a couple things. I see a lot of issues here on this forum. I'm no stranger to the concept of forums and issues. We own two Teslas - one purchased back in 2012 so I'm well aware of the early-adopter syndrome. I'm also very accepting of it for a company I strongly believe in.

My main concern with Juiced is that some of the negative feedback I've seen have dealt with the quality of the components. I've read everything from "pure junk" to "recycled garbage" to "bottom of the barrel components". Now this could be a competitor, disgruntled employee or just a flat out troll having some Internet fun.

Your reviews here are enlightening. $2500 for a bike is not trivial. My CAAD12 is a proven product and was something like $1800 for Ultegra specs. There are so many choices it's nearly overwhelming. Stromer is expensive. I looked at the Vado and it's expensive and limited in range. I like the integration it has, however.

I'm wondering about support as well. I watched all Juiced's setup videos. Seems simple. I'm no idiot when it comes to bike maintenance but I'm far from an expert. I can change a cassette and adjust brakes, change tires and fine-tune my riding position specifications but that's pretty much it. When it comes to bike motors - I'm in trouble. I know very little.

So I'd be dependent upon Juiced for support when things go wrong. Apparently they are very busy which is a good thing. But waiting three weeks for a call back or an email response, or a month for a part replacement isn't going to work for me. I'm about an hour north of Chula Vista so I have geography on my side. I could even pick my bike up instead of wait for delivery and save them on that cost.

Basically this is just an introductory post with some concerns. Love the specs of the bike and the reviews and real-world experiences this forum allows potential customers like myself to ponder over.

The wait is a concern as well. I've seen online conversations where people are bummed and say the CCX was pushed back and their order won't be delivered until October. Well now it's December. It would be two months before I even receive a bike.

Well I waited 2 years for a Model 3 so maybe I'll stick it out.

Anyway, please keep the reviews and information coming. I hope you know how helpful they are.

Sirjonathan, the CCX is an accesible bike that provides the power and speed you cannot get from any other commuter bike at this time, for the price you pay. Surely it is heavy, it has some minor problems, but the support team is very responsive. I had to wait two weeks+ for the delivery; I ordered Oct 29 and got it by mid Nov.

 

[SirJonathan]

the larger problem here is the CCX as its being sold, is absolutely illegal, unless you get it licensed as a moped, and you won't be able to get it licensed as one due to the other safety equipment it lacks, and the specific fact it doesn't have a VIN number or a title. Obviously the company can have disclaimers out the ying yang, but as soon as someone faceplants themselves onto the front of a vehicle on one of these, and is exceeding the 28 mph speed limit with the assistance of the motor, assuming they live to tell about it, their lawyers will have a field day in court. Worse, this gets in the papers, then gives ebikes a bad name, and then ultimately worse case we could see far stricter laws (back to 15 MPH max like in many EU countries) that will ruin it for the rest of us. Any company that is willing to sell into these risks, is kidding themselves, and in the end, the lack of ethics in business, ends up hurting a whole lot of innocent bystanders. So if you want it to ride 'offroad' which from their videos it doesn't look like its meant to do, you are simply supporting a firm that is gambling on a number of levels, not the least of which are ebike riders lives. Certainly the 'boost' provides a competitive 'edge' versus reputable firms like Giant or a Trek, who stick to staying within the laws because they are big and their lawyers wont let them. But cutting corners like this to gain more sales versus what another ebike might offer, and a company that does that, makes one wonder where else along the line are cutting corners being done, whether its in the ebike components, or ultimately how they can support service when something goes wrong, and will they actually do the right thing in obvious situations where the right thing needs to be done. This is not a judgement call. These are simply questions that people should ask themselves when evaluating any ebike and any company. The company may not be breaking any laws, but the product is not designed to follow what is out there, unless they strictly expect to only be sold to people who only will use it on private property. Wink, wink's, and nod nod's, don't count folks.

This is a fascinating take on the subject, and one I had not thought of previously. I knew the bike could exceed 28mph but my plan was to only utilize that speed while in a bike lane on the road. I could keep it at Class 2 on the bike paths by using one of the lower settings on the bike. Actually, the 28mph speed was a big selling point for me because I do a tremendous amount of road riding and being able to use the bike on the road at those speeds was appealing. One thing I liked about the Vado was that it didn't look like an electric bike. The most prominent feature of the CCX is the very large battery. No fooling anybody with that bike. Thank you for this alternative viewpoint. Definitely something for me to consider.

 

[Feliz]

I know of several bikes out there and I'm sure there are a lot more that allow you to program in any top speed you like, many have videos showing you how. This can be done using the display. Of course no bike will reach 99 mph under its own power. Most riders can peddle a bike faster than 750 watts will take them anyway so I don't see any difference whether you hit a bus at 28 mph with you powering the bike or a battery.
My complaint would be Juiced or anyone else selling a bike using speed as a selling feature/point.

 

[hurricane56]

The fact that some manufacturers are not conforming to the three class system shows two things. There’s a huge market for eBikes that can attain speeds above 28mph. Secondly, the class system that now exists was a mistake. The eBike market originating from the European brands has already played too large of an influence on eBike regulations here in the US. I think US market eBikes need to exceed 28 mph and be capped at about 33 mph, to allow users to keep pace with traffic when there isn’t a suitable bike lane. Also, the scale of some commute and ride profiles would benefit from being able to cover greater distances faster.

If you’re going to get a CCX and use all the power it has, you’ll thank yourself for having the freedom to get up and move quicker.

 

[linklemming]

I wouldn’t call myself a giant fan of Juiced Bikes but I do own a HF1000. I had a mixed experience with the quality of the bike and customer service. With the HF line of bikes, I think they were rushed out the door. However a friend just bought a CCX and is very happy with it. Juiced bikes has had some customer service issues, mainly around the responsiveness of the support team. I follow the forums regularly, and it appears that customer service gripes have reduced.

The mid drive vs hub drive debate will always rage on, but I feel a lot more partial to hub drive motors due the lack of wear on drive train components. After putting down 5000 miles on my Bosch powered Haibike, it’s worn out two cassettes, two chains, and the chain ring.

The friend that did buy the CCX asked me what bike I would have picked after test riding different brands. I think if I would have started out with a CCX, it would have taken care of most of my commute needs.

Perhaps you need to change the chain sooner?. My experience is that when wait too long on a chain change, the elongated chain wrecks the cassette and chainrings. That being said, I replace everything every other chain.

Pardon me if your aware of this, just wanted to mention it.

On my acoustic MTB, I change the chain every season which is probably 1500 miles. On my mid-drive MTB ebike, I plan on 1000 miles. Ideally you change the chain when it stretches too much but my use has encompassed 20 years and has been consistent so the miles ridden works good enough

I agree on the CCX being a great commuter(possibly the best for the price), my mid-drive MTB ebike is used more for hilly offroad than commuting although I do run it on alot of hilly bike paths. If I was to buy a bike for commuting, the CCX would be the first on the list although I would drop the chainring down to a 42T due to all the hills where I live. I keep on trying to convince myself I need one

 

[hurricane56]

Perhaps you need to change the chain sooner?. My experience is that when wait too long on a chain change, the elongated chain wrecks the cassette and chainrings. That being said, I replace everything every other chain.

Pardon me if your aware of this, just wanted to mention it.

On my acoustic MTB, I change the chain every season which is probably 1500 miles. On my mid-drive MTB ebike, I plan on 1000 miles. Ideally you change the chain when it stretches too much but my use has encompassed 20 years and has been consistent so the miles ridden works good enough

I agree on the CCX being a great commuter(possibly the best for the price), my mid-drive MTB ebike is used more for hilly offroad than commuting although I do run it on alot of hilly bike paths. If I was to buy a bike for commuting, the CCX would be the first on the list although I would drop the chainring down to a 42T due to all the hills where I live. I keep on trying to convince myself I need one

The chain maintenance was something that I kept a close eye on with the chain checker. The moment it reached .75% stretch on the gauge I ended up changing it, but it still wasn't enough to prevent the wear on chain ring. What sucks even more is the Haibike ones are a chain ring and integrated bash guard, so they're incredibly expensive. As for the cassette, I started changing out only the 9t and 11t cogs instead of replacing the entire assembly.

If you're primarily riding long flat stretches of road, the hub motor is a nice option.

 

[Merc]

the larger problem here is the CCX as its being sold, is absolutely illegal, unless you get it licensed as a moped, and you won't be able to get it licensed as one due to the other safety equipment it lacks, and the specific fact it doesn't have a VIN number or a title. Obviously the company can have disclaimers out the ying yang, but as soon as someone faceplants themselves onto the front of a vehicle on one of these, and is exceeding the 28 mph speed limit with the assistance of the motor, assuming they live to tell about it, their lawyers will have a field day in court. Worse, this gets in the papers, then gives ebikes a bad name, and then ultimately worse case we could see far stricter laws (back to 15 MPH max like in many EU countries) that will ruin it for the rest of us. Any company that is willing to sell into these risks, is kidding themselves, and in the end, the lack of ethics in business, ends up hurting a whole lot of innocent bystanders. So if you want it to ride 'offroad' which from their videos it doesn't look like its meant to do, you are simply supporting a firm that is gambling on a number of levels, not the least of which are ebike riders lives. Certainly the 'boost' provides a competitive 'edge' versus reputable firms like Giant or a Trek, who stick to staying within the laws because they are big and their lawyers wont let them. But cutting corners like this to gain more sales versus what another ebike might offer, and a company that does that, makes one wonder where else along the line are cutting corners being done, whether its in the ebike components, or ultimately how they can support service when something goes wrong, and will they actually do the right thing in obvious situations where the right thing needs to be done. This is not a judgement call. These are simply questions that people should ask themselves when evaluating any ebike and any company. The company may not be breaking any laws, but the product is not designed to follow what is out there, unless they strictly expect to only be sold to people who only will use it on private property. Wink, wink's, and nod nod's, don't count folks.

The CCX is not illegal in California. I live in California and did a lot of research on this very specific issue.

California has the most progressive electric bike laws in the country.

@Mike’s E-Bikes, you are completely wrong on claiming the bike is illegal.

CA Vehicle Code §312.5 states an ebike is defined as a bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts.

VC 312.5(1) Class 1 is an ebike that provides assistance only when pedaling with max speed of 20 mph.
VC 312.5(2) Class 2 is an ebike that is throttle-assisted with max speed 20 mph.
VC 312.5(3) Class 3 is a speed pedelac with 28 mph max speed.

All of Juiced Bikes fall within CA ebike laws with the exception of the HF 1100 and the Hyper Scrambler because these 2 bikes have a 1000 watt motor and receive motor assistance beyond 28 mph. These specific bikes fall within the moped classification under the CA vehicle code and therefore require an M1 or M2 dreiver’s license, one time registration.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=312.5.&lawCode=VEH

 

[hurricane56]

Very interesting point. 28mph is not fast enough to ride safely with cars on the road.

By riding your bike slow, I mean slower than flow of traffic, you actually become a hazard on the road.

The US/Canada roads are different than European or Asian countries.
There's no way you can ride at 28mph on the alley with pedestrians in Europe or Asia. Even smaller bike trail in the US with other cyclists and joggers would be dangerous.

But on the road with other traffic? 28mph isn't quite fast enough.

Exactly that, here in the US, I feel we're forced onto roadways a lot more often than other countries. Plus we don't have a bicycling culture that recognizes bikes/ebikes as a real form of transit.

As for the 28mph limit, a lot of people haven't figured out that 28mph is not a speed that can be consistently held with most ebikes.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Great discussion.

The laws on ebikes are ambiguous at best, and to my knowledge no one on this thread is a lawyer with experience in this area, so take these "legal opinions" with a grain of salt.

Likewise, the complaints about Juiced Bike's service. Thousands of bikes have been sold, and we don't have a representative sample of comments, pro or con, by any means.

But I have studied research methods and stats as part of my master's and doctoral programs, and I'm willing to indulge in some extrapolation. Thousands of bikes sold, and a couple of hundred negative comments about service could indicate that those who are unhappy are more likely to comment than those who are satisfied. It could mean that most Juiced Bikes owners don't need service requests at all. It could mean that most requests are handled well. It could mean (this is my belief) that there is room for improvement. It certainly doesn't mean that I wouldn't recommend Juiced Bikes.

I'm really happy with my CCS. I'd like to have the CCX because of a couple of features they've added, in hardware and software, and that just might happen after I've had another year or so of use out of my CCS. In the meantime I may upgrade to a 52V battery when they're available again.

tl:dr If I were shopping for an ebike right now I'd buy a CCX without hesitation.

 

[SirJonathan]

The CCX is not illegal in California. I live in California and did a lot of research on this very specific issue.

California has the most progressive electric bike laws in the country.

@Mike’s E-Bikes, you are completely wrong on claiming the bike is illegal.

CA Vehicle Code §312.5 states an ebike is defined as a bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts.

VC 312.5(1) Class 1 is an ebike that provides assistance only when pedaling with max speed of 20 mph.
VC 312.5(2) Class 2 is an ebike that is throttle-assisted with max speed 20 mph.
VC 312.5(3) Class 3 is a speed pedelac with 28 mph max speed.

All of Juiced Bikes fall within CA ebike laws with the exception of the HF 1100 and the Hyper Scrambler because these 2 bikes have a 1000 watt motor and receive motor assistance beyond 28 mph. These specific bikes fall within the moped classification under the CA vehicle code and therefore require an M1 or M2 dreiver’s license, one time registration.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=312.5.&lawCode=VEH

Thank you for that! Soothes my concerns immediately. I do know that different states have different laws - even cities and counties and specific bike paths can have different regulations. This alleviates my concerns about purchasing something that is outright illegal.

For what it's worth I have a Motorcycle Endorsement on my CA driver's license and have had one for the past 20 years. It's something I like to keep up if I ever decide to hop back on a sport bike.

As far as service - I do have a 6 year old Tesla Model S purchased new back in 2012. Talk about teething problems. I've had everything in the world happen to that car but because it is such an incredible leap forward in technology I don't regret it one bit. In fact, it's been over two years since the last issue and now that everything has been resolved and fixed (all under warranty - I have not paid a cent) I'll have the car another 10 years and it's all gravy from here. We loved it so much we bought a Model 3 this year and that car has been flawless from the first day.

Because Tesla always treated us well and fixed everything all of the bleeding edge problems are now long forgotten. I am hoping Juiced will be similar and am most likely going to place an order for the CCX this week.

Bruce Arnold and Chris Hammond - I have read all of your reviews and updates. Twice. Those honest, real-world examples are incredible to consumers when looking to make a leap of faith. I provide them on the Tesla forums all the time. I would post 10 times a day back in the early years but now that things have stabilized I'm lucky if I post 10 times in a year. Because you have no affiliation with the vendor your input is trusted and sincere.

I can't wait to start riding!

 

[Merc]

I'm actually a criminal defense lawyer and am very familiar with the California Vehicle Code. Nothing about the CCX is illegal in California. The only bikes from Juiced that falls outside of the ebike laws and falls within moped restrictions are the bikes with motors over 750 watts. Just google ebike laws in your state and there should be an indication of what the laws are, the definition, and the restrictions.

 

[2wheeler]

Federal law also says any ebike 750 watts max shall be considered to be a bicycle. not subject to MVC rules and regulations. That subject comes up a lot w/gas bikes being legal or not on other forums. https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-116/pdf/STATUTE-116-Pg2776.pdf

 

[Merc]

A car can go faster than the speed limit, but its illegal for the driver drive it above the speed limit. That does not make the car illegal, just the driver.