The transition

Chargeride said:
Millions of dollars of 'generated' electricity is thrown away because solar farms are paid to switch off.
Its very difficult to nail what they count as generated.

'Yes, energy generated by solar farms in California still counts toward the state's renewable energy goals, even when some farms are required to switch off or reduce their output due to grid stability issues or to support agriculture.'

The renewable industry has a long and continuing history of fudging and greying soundbites for media consumption.
What exactly is capacity, the output if the sun was directly overhead on a clear day 24hrs a day.

Annual Generation Estimate: A solar farm's annual electricity generation is calculated based on its installed capacity (MW) and an average annual energy consumption per household (kWh).

So when they press release solar farm will power ten thousand homes, its a theoretical figure based on capacity, they dont mention if the night is figured in.

Then you dig down further to find a 'home' is another theoretical construct based on a home that doesnt include any high power consumption.

Im still trying to track down how they measure generated, because you can guarantee they will fudge it in their favour, wirds like 'curtailment'.
Strangely enough it seems California has to pay nearby states to use their excess solar
'This happens because solar power production peaks during the day when demand may be low, leading to a surplus that must be exported at "negative prices" (meaning the exporting entity pays the receiving entity) or the solar power is simply "throttled" or wasted.'

EVs are almost entirely going to be charged at night when solar is completely dead, so battery banks.
GWs of battery banks and pylons running everywhere to feed them.

The answer is obvious, rationing.
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i don’t know where you get this stuff, but i have worked on large scale solar installations and the “capacity” is in fact the peak output. that’s like any system, pretty much. of course that’s still the capacity, even if for some reason (like not needing the power) you have to switch it off. if a gas plant has a supply disruption it doesn’t change the capacity, it changes the output.

the CEC figures are actual generation. not capacity times 24 hours times 365 days. as i said, i’ve been involved with dozens of solar installations and i have never heard of or seen anyone do something as stupid as that, nor have i ever had a client get paid for solar output at night. predicted generation from these things is based on very well understood models of cloud cover and solar geometry, which as you can imagine take into account when the sun is not shining.

so, once again. the chart is actual generated power. not capacity. generated power gets used because you can’t just make billions of watts of energy disappear. more of that power came from solar than any other source, a radical change in just ten years. california has not been ruined by billions of “pylons” running through people’s homes, nor has there been rationing.

if it weren’t for the real problems you refer to - the duck curve and other related issues - the numbers would be even higher because the peak solar generation capacity does not occur at the time of peak demand, and there isn’t enough storage to compensate for that. lots of people are working on this problem and it will get solved.
 
Just smelt some aluminum ore during the peak. And other such things. Imbed that surplus like your great grandmother canning peaches when in season.
 
Art Deco said:
The tech is moving very fast, but ICE cars and trucks (and the industries that depend on them) have a 100 year headstart.
Even if the auto executives spent half that century snoozing away in their offices there's a lot of development to do on EVs and especially on EV infrastructure that's already in place for ICE cars and trucks.
The potential strengths of EVs are still outweighed by their weaknesses, speaking for myself in a rural area.
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I am rural and could do it( Ford man here,but I would sooner have Silverado!)
 
mschwett said:
the infrastructure no doubt varies from place to place. I don‘t charge all that often but I’ve used DC fast chargers that just needed a credit card tap, same as a gas station. also use an app for Tesla or Electrify America, and it takes about 30 seconds to start a charge. the only real difference vs gas is how long it takes - about 15 minutes from 20 to 80/85 percent. I had to wait twice due to no stalls being available, but never in a situation where I absolutely had to charge. on the flipside, I don’t have a gas station at home, but I do have a charger. I’d say it’s a wash, with the EV being much cheaper and much more convenient for day to say use, bit less convenient for very long trips.
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That fits well with what I know about intercity car use cases. It might well apply to longer trips on major interstates where chargers are available (or soon will be) but not for state highways and country roads, not during my lifetime anyway.
 
Art Deco said:
That fits well with what I know about intercity car use cases. It might well apply to longer trips on major interstates where chargers are available (or soon will be) but not for state highways and country roads, not during my lifetime anyway.
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In China you back into a space and a robot swaps your battery with a fresh one. They are a decade ahead.
 
Art Deco said:
That fits well with what I know about intercity car use cases. It might well apply to longer trips on major interstates where chargers are available (or soon will be) but not for state highways and country roads, not during my lifetime anyway.
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i’ve done a few 400+ mile trips, no problems, but using major interstates or state highways. when i was younger i drove all around the country but these days anything in the multi day range is gonna involve a train or airplane
 
mschwett said:
i’ve done a few 400+ mile trips, no problems, but using major interstates or state highways. when i was younger i drove all around the country but these days anything in the multi day range is gonna involve a train or airplane
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I am in the "rent a big van for long trips" camp now. Preferably a hybrid. I won't fly unless absolutely necessary, and trains are few and far between. I wouldn't want to drive some huge van or truck daily, but several times a year for Interstate trips is OK.
 
mschwett said:
i don’t know where you get this stuff, but i have worked on large scale solar installations and the “capacity” is in fact the peak output. that’s like any system, pretty much. of course that’s still the capacity, even if for some reason (like not needing the power) you have to switch it off. if a gas plant has a supply disruption it doesn’t change the capacity, it changes the output.

the CEC figures are actual generation. not capacity times 24 hours times 365 days. as i said, i’ve been involved with dozens of solar installations and i have never heard of or seen anyone do something as stupid as that, nor have i ever had a client get paid for solar output at night. predicted generation from these things is based on very well understood models of cloud cover and solar geometry, which as you can imagine take into account when the sun is not shining.

so, once again. the chart is actual generated power. not capacity. generated power gets used because you can’t just make billions of watts of energy disappear. more of that power came from solar than any other source, a radical change in just ten years. california has not been ruined by billions of “pylons” running through people’s homes, nor has there been rationing.

if it weren’t for the real problems you refer to - the duck curve and other related issues - the numbers would be even higher because the peak solar generation capacity does not occur at the time of peak demand, and there isn’t enough storage to compensate for that. lots of people are working on this problem and it will get solved.
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I'm using chatgpt.
Yes it will get solved, but the only viable tech available is battery storage or rationing and this still includes pylons everywhere to balance the grid.
Then its heating and transport, paying to share your power with other states is because excess solar has negative value as it cant be relied on and appears at random times.

Excess solar energy can have a negative value, meaning producers must pay to offload it, during periods of oversupply. This occurs when a surplus of electricity from renewable sources, such as solar and wind, floods the grid, especially during periods of low demand.
inflexible conventional plants: Many traditional power plants, like nuclear or coal, cannot ramp down their output quickly. To avoid expensive and time-consuming shutdowns, these generators may continue running and bid negative prices to stay online, further contributing to oversupply.
The value of solar energy is increasingly impacted by this dynamic. While it may sell for a good price during peak evening demand, the proliferation of solar power pushes down wholesale prices during midday, when solar generation peaks.

This doesnt apply to householders, they are protected by feed in contracts....though thats always there to be changed
 
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