The saddle thread: Cloud 9 sizes and images on page three

Reid, an addendum is that you don't soak it to excess. Just enough to get the leather somewhat pliable by touch. What I did was take the seat and post out of the bike and put it in a 5 gallon bucket. Warm water, not hot. The moisture will dissipate while riding also so the drying process doesn't take long. Also not just my saddles were done with this method but many of my riding buddies did also.

Pic of my Ti Pro when new in 2000 after quick break in method

View attachment 23033

Same saddle on another bike of mine in 2015

View attachment 23030

Same bike in it's original build form in 2000 with a Cowboyed B17 that also saw service for years

View attachment 23034
Great looking "Ti Pro." What is its formal Brooks name?

The wetting of the leather makes all the sense in the world to me. Leather, even thick and especially fibrous, when wetted becomes very moldable, reshapable.

The goal being to mold the saddle to fit the sit bones, I now have the courage to just go soak the saddle. Theory is one thing but practical experience is the truth.

Why Brooks prefers to push Proofhide goose grease instead of helping the buyer obtain a quicker and better fit, is a mystery.

OWA-TAGOO-SIAM (I repeat that five times fast on a regular basis to keep me regular)
 
Great looking "Ti Pro." What is its formal Brooks name?

The wetting of the leather makes all the sense in the world to me. Leather, even thick and especially fibrous, when wetted becomes very moldable, reshapable.

The goal being to mold the saddle to fit the sit bones, I now have the courage to just go soak the saddle. Theory is one thing but practical experience is the truth.

Why Brooks prefers to push Proofhide goose grease instead of helping the buyer obtain a quicker and better fit, is a mystery.

OWA-TAGOO-SIAM (I repeat that five times fast on a regular basis to keep me regular)

Probably for longer shelf life at the store.
 
Well, I learned today my saddle has been lost in shipping. Somewhere it is, but it is not here. Amazon has asked the vendor to quick-ship another.

In the meantime, grin, I am looking at other saddles:

FISH is in the swim.png


EDIT: there is an online inflation calculator. It informs that $5 in 1893 had the purchasing power of $133 today.
https://www.officialdata.org/1893-dollars-in-2018?amount=5

What did you pay for your Brooks? I got mine pretty cheaply in 2018, for about as much as I would have paid in 1893 equivalency if I had shopped around a bit in that long ago year. It is surprising that the real cost of a leather bike saddle has remained level for over a century and a quarter...
 
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Great looking "Ti Pro." What is its formal Brooks name?

The wetting of the leather makes all the sense in the world to me. Leather, even thick and especially fibrous, when wetted becomes very moldable, reshapable.

The goal being to mold the saddle to fit the sit bones, I now have the courage to just go soak the saddle. Theory is one thing but practical experience is the truth.

Why Brooks prefers to push Proofhide goose grease instead of helping the buyer obtain a quicker and better fit, is a mystery.

OWA-TAGOO-SIAM (I repeat that five times fast on a regular basis to keep me regular)

If it works at the factory level to help form the saddle as seen here starting at 2:53 it's good enough for me.

how brooks saddles are made

Applying Proofhide helps to maintain the leather after it is wetted, formed and dried but in actuality does little to help it conform to your sit bones. I've never seen evidence of Brooks pushing the theory that it will help to accelerate the personal forming of the saddle. It is more of an old wives tail that is just to suck people into the same long drawn out experience they went through using it exclusively, the old misery loves company, when it probably was more that they rode the bike in the rain a few times that finally had the desired result....

As I said before they can be gotten too wet even with a regular application of proof hide and will start to sag which makes you tighten the nut under the nose of the saddle to get it back in shape. There is a good amount of adjustment there but it will eventually come to an end.

Oh and the same saddle I had is featured in the video as one of the few shown at the beginning that did't have springs. I always knew it as the Pro model with Ti rails.
 
...Returning the Brooks B67 with newly-broken rail to Amazon for a refund. {Brooks} gave me an email address to reach out to, for repair work in North America; but I never heard back from them since writing.
Update, late last night I did hear back from the US distributor (HighwayTwo) regarding warranty claim work... they indicated I need to take the Brooks into one of their local dealers and have them process it as a warranty claim... but gave no info on whether that would be a repair, or a replacement... we'll see; I have the return label for Amazon, and can wait a few more days for a detailed reply from H2.
 
The Brooks Swift arrived today.

Tried it out of the box and it was relatively comfortable. Little break in would be needed.

JRA gave me the confidence needed to just soak the new saddle. 20 minutes in a bucket of tepid water.

Put it on the bike and it was nice and pliable and instantly conformed to my sit bones.

Rode for 5 miles and came home. The sides had splayed out substantially; the leather gets very pliable when wet and so it had also stretched lengthwise. I tightened the saddle a few turns with the supplied wrench.

I now understand better JRA's observation: if this sort of saddle is repeatedly ridden in the rain, it will keep on stretching and stretching, and eventually there will be no more take-up adjustment remaining.

On the other hand, the Swift came with a form fitting, black nylon rain cover. I can easily carry that in the little top tube bag on my CCS.

As I write this posting the saddle that I soaked an hour ago is drying out in the blast of an electric fan with some ace-bandage type elastic material temporarily stretched around the waist of the saddle in order to pull the sides in again nice and narrow till it dries out sufficiently to hold the shape again.

When the saddle dries sufficiently (it is drying fast in the fan's blast) the shape will be locked in and I will remove the temporary bandage.

I am very pleased. I have had two prior Brooks saddles and both were torture to ride on.

The B66 I owned ten years ago was just rock hard and much too wide for me, besides.

My bad that I did not know to use water to soften the leather for instant conformation.

The most recent Brooks, bought a year ago, was a C15 Cambium Carved Saddle Black. It is billed as needing no break in. But I found its rubber base to be so over-vulcanized that it might as well have been hard plastic. I kept the saddle to see if I could break myself in to it, instead of the other way around. Not possible. I could only stand that saddle if I wore padded shorts. I don't wear padded shorts, though, just street clothes.

(edit: the saddle is sufficiently dry now and the temporary bandage is therefore removed for photography before it gets too dark here)

Conclusion:

The Swift fits. It is for sure the saddle I am going to keep for a very long time to come.
(You may be able to see during this walkaround the depressions, how the leather has already conformed to my shape.)



If it works at the factory level to help form the saddle as seen here starting at 2:53 it's good enough for me.

how brooks saddles are made

Applying Proofhide helps to maintain the leather after it is wetted, formed and dried but in actuality does little to help it conform to your sit bones. I've never seen evidence of Brooks pushing the theory that it will help to accelerate the personal forming of the saddle. It is more of an old wives tail that is just to suck people into the same long drawn out experience they went through using it exclusively, the old misery loves company, when it probably was more that they rode the bike in the rain a few times that finally had the desired result....

As I said before they can be gotten too wet even with a regular application of proof hide and will start to sag which makes you tighten the nut under the nose of the saddle to get it back in shape. There is a good amount of adjustment there but it will eventually come to an end.

Oh and the same saddle I had is featured in the video as one of the few shown at the beginning that did't have springs. I always knew it as the Pro model with Ti rails.
 
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Well well... riding home tonight I hit a large-ish bump in uneven pavement and hear a distinct metallic “snap” noise, felt a small jolt in the saddle... I thought perhaps my saddle mount clamp had jumped a “tooth” position. But I noticed the saddle felt ever so slightly lopsided and when I reached a stopping point, I removed the Brooks B67 and saw that one of the horizontal mount rails was now cracked!! Not quite clean through, but enough that I can flex that rail a bit at that point with only modest pressure. I’ve remounted the saddle in a more forward position so the crack is “covered” by the clamp/bracket for the ride home. Guess I’ll be writing to Brooks tonight when I get home :( Sure hope that isn’t 1,000 miles of “breaking in” down the drain...
Am so curious to see what the break looks like. If you can post an image, please?

Still, it will be fastest and easiest for you to return the defective saddle to Amazon and reorder it. And don't suffer the pain of a new saddle, ha ha: just go soak it like I did mine. And thanks to his advice working so well, I think JRA is the big cheese, the best teacher here! I am so pleased with my brand new custom fitted Swift, thanks again, JRA.
 
I think you're right @Reid i will just return to Amazon and go fresh.... I have an inexpensive cloud 9 being delivered Sunday so I can send the broken saddle back Monday, and take my time getting another B67. I will attempt to get a photo of the cracked rail before I box it up.
 
I think, christbob, you will really like that Cloud 9! Thanks if you can get up a picture. But moreso, thanks for going the easiest route for yourself, regardless.

The handmade and therefore possible or likely imperfections of the individual Brooks saddles is evidenced, too, in my video embedded in #24 above, at around 30 seconds.

I attempt to show that the saddle rail on one side seems to be farther outboard than on the other. There is a little bit of asymetry there. But it does not affect the riding, only the appearance, and only if I look for the asymetry.

I don't mind having a handmade saddle, a Brooks, because I enjoy cycle history. And this living museum piece reminds me that what was good decades ago can in some cases still be very good today. Not for everybody. But at last I think I have a Brooks that is going to work here very well.
 
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Speaking of the Cloud 9 ...

With all the sizes available, how does one go about deciding which to order - Assuming that you don't know someone that already has one??

(As far as I can tell, no one around me sells them.)
 
I think, christbob, you will really like that Cloud 9! Thanks if you can get up a picture.

Well, doesn't look like the Cloud 9 will probably work for me. Or at least, not this model (if there are different options available, for how the saddle mounts to the bike) or not without more work / forcing than I may be able to do... The Cloud 9 I received isn't made to mount its 2 rails directly into my existing seat-post rail clamp.

A: The Cloud 9 instead uses a wrap around metal sleeve/grip, which would envelop the top of a seat post tube; eyeballing it, the wrap-around band to grip the post is meant for a narrower diameter seat post than I currently have. The inner-diameter measurement of the wrap-around grip appears to be about 23mm, while the outside diameter of my seat post appears to be about 27-28mm (I don't have calipers, so that isn't 100% precise ;)
B: It appears the Cloud 9 rails themselves are spaced a bit further apart, 2-3mm more, than the receiving channels for rails on my seat-post clamp. (Brooks rails, and my clamp, appear to be about 43mm apart on centers. C9 appears to be about 45-46mm apart on centers.) Perhaps with some force I could get the C9 rails to seat properly into the clamp's receiving channels, but I'm not convinced.

Attaching pics of all of this (and the break in the Brooks rail.)

1. Underside of C9 showing the wrap-around grip/sleeve.
IMG_4596a.jpg
2. Break in Brooks right-side rail (left-side is ok).
IMG_4597a.jpg
3. Spacing of C9 rails (assuming I'd remove the wrap-around hardware). Measuring the parallel-section of the 2 rails, though it doesn't exactly look like that in this image / perspective.
IMG_4598a.jpg
4. Spacing of Brooks rails, parallel section.
IMG_4599a.jpg
5. Adjustable wrench (in absence of calipers!) set to the outside diameter of my seat post tube, showing how the C9 wrap-around grip sleeve's interior is much, much narrower.
IMG_4601a.jpg
 
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Well, doesn't look like the Cloud 9 will probably work for me. Or at least, not this model (if there are different options available, for how the saddle mounts to the bike) or not without more work / forcing than I may be able to do... The Cloud 9 I received isn't made to mount its 2 rails directly into my existing seat-post rail clamp....(snip)
Yes, it is OK. Just remove and set aside or discard the steel clamp assembly from the rails. That is only for steel bike seat tubes, old bikes in general.

The C9 should fit your existing seatpost clamp fine. There is only standard spacing for saddle rails.

You have a lot to gain by trying to fit it.

As for the Brooks rail: it is an astonishing failure. How mild steel could fracture like that, I sure don't know.

Of course, always keep your seat clamp tight...

Thanks for the really excellent pictures! Now mount that C9. You are the boss of it, not it of you! (grin)
 
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Yes, it is OK. Just remove and set aside or discard the steel clamp assembly from the rails. That is only for steel bike seat tubes, old bikes in general.
The C9 should fit your existing seatpost clamp fine. There is only standard spacing for saddle rails.
Sadly, I did remove all the C9 post-gripper hardware -- and the exposed rails definitely DO NOT line up with the 2 standard-spaced channels in my clamp (which the Brooks rails, and an earlier Bontrager saddle I tried briefly, fit perfectly.) The C9's rails are a solid 2mm further apart from making a proper seating in the clamp :( I suspect, lack of quality tolerance control... And the rails don't budge! (Short of trying to force them with vice-grips or something else, which I didn't do, as I'll probably return this one to Amazon as well...)
Back to the drawing board... Thinking a new Brooks B67 with the water-soak...
 
As for the Brooks rail: it is an astonishing failure. How mild steel fracture could fracture like that, I sure don't know.
Forgot to say -- I did have the Brooks mounted as far back in my clamp as the rails would allow -- which of course meant my weight was very much "cantilevered". I suspect 1,000 miles of that weight (even if declining) was enough to bring on metal fatigue... hehehe
With the same saddle mounted now but in about a 1/2 - 3/4" more forward position, the clamp completely surrounds/covers that break, and I'm riding it (fingers crossed) successfully without issue until I resolve my next saddle option... Though I'm sure that is borrowed time...
And yep, I've kept that clamp TIGHT on the rails!
 
Speaking of the Cloud 9 ...

With all the sizes available, how does one go about deciding which to order - Assuming that you don't know someone that already has one??

(As far as I can tell, no one around me sells them.)
Look at the range of them available on Amazon ?

Here is a more athletic one that, if I were buying, I would choose.

Here is a more relaxed one for men of normal size, more for upright riding but still good for athletic pedaling.

Here is a cruiser type seat, fine for fully upright seating (these wide models are more seat than saddle and are not best for pedaling a bike far or fast).
 
https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/zadels/index_en.html#Brooks_b17_narrow
https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/index_en.html
In reaction to what Wouter Scholten of the Netherlands (pages of his genius linked above ) did to a splayed-out Swift,

I have minimally laced my new Swift today.

Now: the sides cannot splay outwardly if the saddle gets wet. The sides cannot splay outwardly as his Swift's did, and rub thighs and allow the saddle to hummock down.

Lacing greatly stiffens the length of the saddle against sagging.

You may ask: why does Brooks make a saddle with shallow-depth sides if, when gotten wet, its sides will spread apart and give up any pretext of supporting the saddle length? I don't get any answer so I have taken the logical step of lacing to maintain the shape of the new saddle even if it should get soaking wet again.

EDIT: slender zip ties work great and blend in with the exterior appearance and are easy to readjust or replace (thanks, Wouter!):

20180702_201719.jpg
20180702_202830.jpg
20180702_203951.jpg
 
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Well, doesn't look like the Cloud 9 will probably work for me. Or at least, not this model (if there are different options available, for how the saddle mounts to the bike) or not without more work / forcing than I may be able to do... The Cloud 9 I received isn't made to mount its 2 rails directly into my existing seat-post rail clamp.
Not having a vise, I took the seat tube and Cloud 9 in to my LBS. They put the seat tube in the vise, moved the rails together that 1/4 or 3/8 inch that they needed, and mounted the seat for me just fine. The seat tube was too narrow a diameter to use the Cloud 9 mounting hardware, so this was the route I chose. Been a month or so, works great.

Oh yeah, they didn't charge me a nickle either.
 
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FYI, I emailed the folks at cloud 9 (or at least, contact info shown on the cloud9seats website) -- and they acknowledged there'd been a manufacturing defect for a period, producing rails too far apart. They claim it has been rectified going forward -- and that they (for saddles bought from them directly) check the rails to ensure they're "standard spacing" before sending one out now. But there's no way of knowing how many non-standard-rail-spacing saddles are out in inventory with other sellers (like Amazon.)
 
FYI, I emailed the folks at cloud 9 (or at least, contact info shown on the cloud9seats website) -- and they acknowledged there'd been a manufacturing defect for a period, producing rails too far apart. They claim it has been rectified going forward -- and that they (for saddles bought from them directly) check the rails to ensure they're "standard spacing" before sending one out now. But there's no way of knowing how many non-standard-rail-spacing saddles are out in inventory with other sellers (like Amazon.)

On all my C-9 seats, I had to use a pair of vice grips to move the 2 rails closer. I started with one vice grip to clamp the 2 rails closer together, then use a second vice grip beside the first with a tighter bite. And then readjust the first vice grip for more tightening and let it sit there for an hour.

I also tried numerous bicycle seats and seat post suspensions. For me, the sitting comfort of the C-9 seat is worth the hassle of bending the rails into place.
 
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