The latest hub motor replacement cores

[how]

After sitting on the sidelines about upgrading my 2020 Radrover step thru from a 500W hub motor to a 750W, and watching many of the videos favorably comparing Bafangs full cased "true" 750 W hub motor core over Radpower's original 750 W motor cores, I ordered a replacement from one of the companies that did such a comparison.
When it arrived, the new motor core surprisingly looked identical to Rad Powers's original version. When I complained about this to the supplier, they said that the core that they sent me has been specifically made for the Rad Rover plug & play upgrade and although it looks smaller, it just has more windings within it. They said this was partially done to reduce the motor's weight.
All other motor suppliers now seem to also only be offering this partially cased replacement core. Supply chain limitations, I guess.

Since all the side by side comparisons that I can find were actually between the Rad powers original motor and Bafangs fully cased "true" 750W replacement versions of the same, has anyone here tried out the new smaller replacement cores and if so, what was your impressions of it.

 

[AHicks]

After sitting on the sidelines about upgrading my 2020 Radrover step thru from a 500W hub motor to a 750W, and watching many of the videos favorably comparing Bafangs full cased "true" 750 W hub motor core over Radpower's original 750 W motor cores, I ordered a replacement from one of the companies that did such a comparison.
When it arrived, the new motor core surprisingly looked identical to Rad Powers's original version. When I complained about this to the supplier, they said that the core that they sent me has been specifically made for the Rad Rover plug & play upgrade and although it looks smaller, it just has more windings within it. They said this was partially done to reduce the motor's weight.
All other motor suppliers now seem to also only be offering this partially cased replacement core. Supply chain limitations, I guess.

Since all the side by side comparisons that I can find were actually between the Rad powers original motor and Bafangs fully cased "true" 750W replacement versions of the same, has anyone here tried out the new smaller replacement cores and if so, what was your impressions of it.

I don't know anything about the one you purchased, but if there were no clear differences, I'd be a little suspicious.... I don't remember the specifics, but I'm thinking there should be a difference in the width of the aftermarket replacement "core" as compared to the original in a side by side comparison? The tricky piece is the motor connection, getting the bigger core supplied with the smaller wire connector used by the 500w. That's what makes going with well known suppliers here a good plan. There's too many wannabee rip off artists......

 

[harryS]

Reminds me of when I was 16 years old and had to get a pair of dress shoes. I asked why the heels had notches cut on them, and the sales guy, a kid a few years older than me, said it was so I could put on the shoes with my pants on.

 

[indianajo]

Measure the inductance of the OEM core and the replacement core. Same, bad, different, good.
BTW inductance meters are over $100.

 

[m@Robertson]

When I complained about this to the supplier, they said that the core that they sent me has been specifically made for the Rad Rover plug & play upgrade and although it looks smaller, it just has more windings within it. They said this was partially done to reduce the motor's weight.
All other motor suppliers now seem to also only be offering this partially cased replacement core. Supply chain limitations, I guess.

Where did you buy this motor? Area 13 was one of the first if not the very first to offer a Rad-specific upgrade, and I know they went out of their way to use the 'bigfoot' core. In part because they were the first retailer to publicly call out Rad on putting 500's inside of casings plugged and marked as a 750. This is what you should be seeing in terms of differences before and after.

There is no such thing as a tailored motor for a Rad as the motors have one of two plugs, which are dictated by the motor's rating/wattage. For 500w and below, they use the 'little' plug. The 750's and 1000's use the 'big plug'. Pinouts are the same for all of them. BTW big-to-little and little-to-big conversion adapters are available, but Rad completed the disguise of their motor on the Rover at least by using the big plug. LOTS of drama on this when it all came out, as you probably know.

What do you mean by 'partially cased'? A look like this, below?

 

[how]

I've purchased most of my Rad Rover parts (like the 35Amp controller upgrade) through Bolten's before they became Area 13. I went through them because of their video comparisons between the smaller Rad version of the hub motor, the true Bafang versions and Bolton's stated preferences for the latter. When they confirmed my order, they sent me a confirmation with an old photo on it of the motor core that they were sending. I then phoned Jesica in Area 13 customer service to say I was worried that the picture they had on-site showed a core being sent that looked like a partial casing that looked like it was a Rad Rover OEM version. She said it was an old picture and the next day their picture was revised to show the picture above. A mechanic from Area 13 later texted me back saying that this was the core that was made for Rad Rover, and that the other motors that they stocked would not fit. This picture of the core is the updated photo and certainly looks like it's fully cased. Two hours later I was notified that it was on its way. When it arrived, I immediately called back Area 13 to say the wrong motor had been sent. Klye texted me back saying that this was the right one for the Rad Rover and while he was a little surprised that this core only had a partial casing, the manufacturer had told him that it had more windings within it to make it a 750W core and that was also lighter in weight. It does have plug & play connectors that look the same as the 500W motors.

So while this picture is completely false advertising that its a fully cased core when it's definitely not, other suppliers of the 750W motor core are now stating upfront that all their replacement cores for the Rad Rover are now only partially cased. I am assuming, because of this, that these are all the motor cores that Area 13 can now get a hold of.

My concern is that the lesser cores that Rad Power had Bafang make for them in-house, are now the only cores available to anyone. If they actually operate as well as the fully cased Bafang 750 W motor cores, then great.

Hence my question, if anyone has swapped out a new partially cased motor core from a motor that had formally had a fully cased motor core within it , and if they were of the same Wattage rating, did they notice an improvement or not?

 

[AHicks]

With the info Area 13 has/is given you, I can see why you might have some questions!

I'd stick with the original narrow/wide story. If it's not like the pic shown on that youtube video, my bet is you aren't getting the upgraded core....

 

[m@Robertson]

Knowing Kyle and the integrity of his operation, I have no concerns that @how is getting any sort of raw deal. I'd take their explanation at face value. It may be the big/fat 750 core is no more and nowadays they are just more heavily wound inside? I know there never was any visible difference between the 350 and the 500. It was only in the windings.

The photo I posted is not a photo but a render, and I copied it off of the Area 13 web site from the Rad motor upgrade page. I still don't understand calling the motor core 'partially cased', based on the motors I have owned and seen. What they are showing is pretty much the motors as they have always been. Maybe what you are meaning is simply the difference between a motor that is sold as a whole, single unit and one that is sold core-only. I compared pics of motors from 2017 and 2018 and they match what Area13 is showing on their product page.

 

[how]

Here is a photo of the 750W motor core that I received from Area 13. It looks substantially different from the advertising photo of the core that I ordered or to Kyles video comparisons of the true 750W Bafang core compared to the Rad power's cores.
I don't doubt that this core will fit, just that an awful lot was made in those videos about how to see the physical differences in quality between the Rad Power motor cores and the true 750W Bafang cores. It was also backed up with time trial comparisons between the those two. Those video testaments were a large reason for why I decided to upgrade.
I understand about supply chain issues, how the true 750W Bafang cores may not be currently available, but if the new motor cores are now coming out looking like duplicates of the cores that area 13 previously said were inferior... then an amendment should be done to those older sale videos and someone with an apple phone should take one minute to snap and post a true picture of what they are now actually sending out.
I am quite grateful to Kyle for all the Rad power upgrades that Bolton bikes have developed and made available.
My original posting didn't even mention where I bought this core. I only did so after it was recommended that I should try Area13.

 

[how]

Here is a photo of the 750W motor core that I received from Area 13. It looks substantially different from the advertising photo of the core that I ordered or to Kyles video comparisons of the true 750W Bafang core compared to the Rad power's cores.
I don't doubt that this core will fit, just that an awful lot was made in those videos about how to see the physical differences in quality between the Rad Power motor cores and the true 750W Bafang cores. It was also backed up with time trial comparisons between the those two. Those video testaments were a large reason for why I decided to upgrade.
I understand about supply chain issues, how the true 750W Bafang cores may not be currently available, but if the new motor cores are now coming out looking like duplicates of the cores that area 13 previously said were inferior... then an amendment should be done to those older sale videos and someone with an apple phone should take one minute to snap and post a true picture of what they are now actually sending out.
I am quite grateful to Kyle for all the Rad power upgrades that Bolton bikes have developed and made available.
My original posting didn't even mention where I bought this core. I only did so after it was recommended that I should try Area13.






View attachment 140914View attachment 140914

Just an update concerning my Area 13 750W motor core swap for my 500W Rad Power. I had a complaint about not noticing much of a power increase and later discovered that my use of dialectric grease on the connection between my motor and the controller may have caused some insulation limitation between the copper connecters. Probably through heat and vibration, my motor has now been supplying an ever improving level of power as that insulating grease denigrates over time in bike riding.
This is a shout out to Kyle at area 13 who suggested this as a potential fault and said that he has run across this problem multiple times. Personally, I think dialectic grease is a useful tool in making ones bike more waterproof, provided one applies it judiciously and only on the connection joint surfaces with an eye to keeping it away from the pins and their receivers. 1st time I heard of it as a potential problem.
Well, back to the school of hard knocks!

 

[m@Robertson]

I took one of my new 750's (a front motor) apart right after my last post above to check the core. I saw the same ol' bigfoot 750 I expected and its a brand-new motor. Comparing @how 's picture to the one I posted of an old rear 350, his new one looks to be larger than the 350 but smaller than the 750 - and we know from past experience the 500's used the same sized aluminum slab as the 350. So this is something different. In a couple of weeks I will be able to do the same thing with a front 500w motor I have at home, when I get back there.

This is the way it is, working with Bafang (Rad just buys big enough lots that Bafang puts their name on them). They make varying production runs all the time and put different things out - even simultaneously. I have two BBSHDs fresh off damn near the same boat, and one of them has a different thrust bearing configuration than the other - and one has a power take-off wire while the other one doesn't. A customer may place an order with Bafang, then cancel it and Bafang just releases the product - that may have some unique elements to it - into their normal output channel. Those same G060 fat motors like yours were once infamous for having two different KT controller configurations. There was no rhyme or reason to which one you would get. You just try one and if your display is scrambled, try the other one and it'll work.

Likewise, that new 750 I just cracked open simply had a standard M3 socket cap holding it down with a little blue thread locker on it. I have some motors that use countersunk Phillips heads that needed a heat gun to soften red loctite, and an impact wrench to pound the damn thing out after heating. More recently they have been using red loctite and security Torx heads. But this one has a simple socket and came out easy peasy.

Point being... whatever you are seeing in this production batch could change tomorrow, and again next month. Bafang moves in mysterious ways.

 

[tomjasz]

Wonstar is such a whore…