Tesla million mile battery

It makes great sense for urban mobility ebikes to just go with at least 1kwh capacity batteries for range and also for allowing less than full charge / discharge cycles to extend battery life (something the OEMs don't seem to embrace because they view batteries as re-occurring revenue consumables and want them to life-cycle as fast as possible which makes sense for profits but is ??? ethically in my opinion).
 
Ken M said:
It makes great sense for urban mobility ebikes to just go with at least 1kwh capacity batteries for range and also for allowing less than full charge / discharge cycles to extend battery life (something the OEMs don't seem to embrace because they view batteries as re-occurring revenue consumables and want them to life-cycle as fast as possible which makes sense for profits but is ??? ethically in my opinion).
Click to expand...
Generally I agree that it would be great to have 1 kwh batteries. If my Juiced had a 1 kwh battery that would be fantastic. But my Creo with a 1 kwh battery? Uh no thanks. Way too heavy, would affect the handling of the bike and just change the character of the bike far too much.

Yesterday I did 70 km's with the smart control and had the motor turn on when my HR hit 135 bpm. I also had the motor provide fairly minimal assist when it turned on. The result was I used 45 wh on a 70 km ride. Even with the 320 wh internal battery that equates to a range of about 500 km's. So really no need to have a bigger battery. Now if I could have a 1 kwh battery that was the same size and weight as the internal 320 wh battery then sure sign me up. With a battery that big, I could probably ride really fast for a long ways.
 
Thanks @Captain Slow and @FlatSix911 ,

It is very inspiring and proud feeling to witness what was innovated in Canada is changing the EV landscape around the world.

The new battery chemistry that will be unveiled very shortly is a total game changer. It will last 1 Million Miles even if you cycle 0 to 100%, enables EV performance that smokes any gasoline competition and opens up possibilities for vehicle to Grid technologies.
I will be working for Prof. Dahn for a few years in Halifax, Nova scotia and he has been very supportive of my E-bike startup venture. Hopefully, we can bring that latest battery tech to the E-bike space.
 
Last edited:
Ravi Kempaiah said:
Thanks @Captain Slow and @FlatSix911 ,

It is very inspiring and proud feeling tot witness what was innovated in Canada is changing the EV landscape around the world.

The new battery chemistry that will be unveiled very shortly is a total game changer. It will last 1 Million Miles even if you cycle 0 to 100%, enables EV performance that smokes any gasoline competition and opens up possibilities for vehicle to Grid technologies.
I will be working for Prof. Dahn for a few years in Halifax, Nova scotia and he has been very supportive of my E-bike startup venture. Hopefully, we can bring that latest battery tech to the E-bike space.
Click to expand...
Ravi, do you think it will be cost effective to be able to bring that battery tech to the ebike space? I can see what's affordable in a Tesla is a whole different matter than what's affordable in a 4 figure ebike.
 
Ravi Kempaiah said:
Thanks @Captain Slow and @FlatSix911 ,

It is very inspiring and proud feeling tot witness what was innovated in Canada is changing the EV landscape around the world.

The new battery chemistry that will be unveiled very shortly is a total game changer. It will last 1 Million Miles even if you cycle 0 to 100%, enables EV performance that smokes any gasoline competition and opens up possibilities for vehicle to Grid technologies.
I will be working for Prof. Dahn for a few years in Halifax, Nova scotia and he has been very supportive of my E-bike startup venture. Hopefully, we can bring that latest battery tech to the E-bike space.
Click to expand...
My kudos to you Ravi for helping to change the world whether it is ready or not!
Also makes me proud as a Canadian that we have some part in developing the technology.
 
Captain Slow said:
I can see what's affordable in a Tesla is a whole different matter than what's affordable in a 4 figure ebike.
Click to expand...


To be able to bring the battery tech to E-bike space and affect all segments of the market needs more time but it can be brought into space for sure.
It is totally possible to build a ~500-700 Whr battery pack that will last 2000+ cycles at full depth of discharge and that should equal close to 100,000 miles of useful cycle before needing replacement.

When OEM's starts offering 5 year, 40,000 miles warranty on E-bike batteries, it will instill greater confidence in consumers that E-bikes are real game changers not just a recreational machine.
 
That certainly is encouraging.

40,000 mile warranty :) - LOL - I ride more than most people and I don't even come close to 40,000 miles over 5 years. I would probably do 12,000 to 15,000 miles over 5 years and I don't know too many people who ride more than me. Granted with technological improvements and a different world because of the pandemic we could suddenly see a lot more people riding a lot further on ebikes.

I suppose if people are going to use ebikes as a car replacement then a 40,000 mile battery warranty over 5 years is probably necessary.

What I'd really like the most is to have a bike like my Creo, but to have a battery the same size and weight but with say 500 wh of energy. That would be amazing.
 
Captain Slow said:
Generally I agree that it would be great to have 1 kwh batteries. If my Juiced had a 1 kwh battery that would be fantastic. But my Creo with a 1 kwh battery? Uh no thanks. Way too heavy, would affect the handling of the bike and just change the character of the bike far too much.

Yesterday I did 70 km's with the smart control and had the motor turn on when my HR hit 135 bpm. I also had the motor provide fairly minimal assist when it turned on. The result was I used 45 wh on a 70 km ride. Even with the 320 wh internal battery that equates to a range of about 500 km's. So really no need to have a bigger battery. Now if I could have a 1 kwh battery that was the same size and weight as the internal 320 wh battery then sure sign me up. With a battery that big, I could probably ride really fast for a long ways.
Click to expand...

The Creo is a very targeted ebike...kind of something designed by cyclists for cyclists. I think people looking for an ebike to get them out of a car for some trips are not looking for a specific product as much as they are a solution for their needs and for transportation an ebike should be more upright, comfortable, have good air volume tires, reliable, at least a Class 3 ebike, etc.
 
Timpo said:
oh okay I was wondering maybe Tesla is trying to develop their new battery.
Click to expand...

Tesla is doing both... their own development and continuing the partnership.

"I think that Tesla and Panasonic will have always a relationship, but it will be less of an overall “battery partner” relationship and more of a typical supplier relationship. Tesla will need to buy all the cells it can get from Panasonic for the foreseeable future.

Even by the time it can ramp up its own battery cell production, I believe that the battery cell demand from Tesla’s vehicle and stationary energy storage production will still greatly outpace its own battery cell production."
 

Here is a video from just last year all about it, starts out about Watt Wagon but then goes into what they are doing, both Ravi and Pushkar are seen in the video.
It's a long video but it helps us appreciate the R & D that is being done for batteries right now, it's exciting to think of the technology that will be available to us in just the next 5 years.
 
Ebiker33 said:

Here is a video from just last year all about it, starts out about Watt Wagon but then goes into what they are doing, both Ravi and Pushkar are seen in the video.
It's a long video but it helps us appreciate the R & D that is being done for batteries right now, it's exciting to think of the technology that will be available to us in just the next 5 years.
Click to expand...

Great informational video... thanks for sharing.
 
I believe the form factor is the same... with different chemistry for long-life performance.

I'll let Ravi, our local battery expert, comment further on this subject.
 
MinnBobber said:
Will the new battery offer less volume and less weight for the same performance?
Comparing to a Stromer 983wh battery...
Click to expand...

These cells won't be available to E-bikes anytime soon but they will be adopted by Tesla first and then by other OEM such as GM, BMW, Volkswagen group.

The cell chemistry designed by Tesla is more energy dense than what you find in the ST2-S (Samsung 35E) and offers tremendous longevity. It won't be less weight for now but if we use those cells in the ST2-S battery, it will have something like 1150 Whr capacity and last MUCH longer (20+ years of heavy use). These cells make a lot of sense for the upcoming Semi trucks as they see 75K to 100K miles every year.
 
Captain Slow said:
Generally I agree that it would be great to have 1 kwh batteries. If my Juiced had a 1 kwh battery that would be fantastic. But my Creo with a 1 kwh battery? Uh no thanks. Way too heavy, would affect the handling of the bike and just change the character of the bike far too much.

Yesterday I did 70 km's with the smart control and had the motor turn on when my HR hit 135 bpm. I also had the motor provide fairly minimal assist when it turned on. The result was I used 45 wh on a 70 km ride. Even with the 320 wh internal battery that equates to a range of about 500 km's. So really no need to have a bigger battery. Now if I could have a 1 kwh battery that was the same size and weight as the internal 320 wh battery then sure sign me up. With a battery that big, I could probably ride really fast for a long ways.
Click to expand...

45wh on a 70km ride. My goodness you are impressive. Your stated ride was only 0.64wh per km!

There is another thread here that suggests around 10-15wh per km/mile is what a typical rider uses. Some of us heavier riders (raises hand) need more in the 20-25wh per km and hence we invest in larger batteries/multiple batteries to enjoy the same longer rides a fit rider like yourself enjoys.

So yes the battery and motor in my case (and others like me) is doing much more of the effort on our rides, thanks to the ebike life I am still able to get out there for 100-150km rides with my heart rate in the 130-155bpm range (130-135bpm is my average) which helped me lose 50lbs in 6 months, before the virus hit and I am now again able to ride far and back on track to lose the next 50.

Kudos to you and a bit of perspective from someone at the other end of the....errr....scale. ;-)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Ravi Kempaiah
"Recent Advancements to a Million-Mile Battery" - EV Society of Canada w/Prof. Jeff Dahn - 1st Feb 2022 at 7.30pm EST
Replies
6
Views
2K
jorsjbrown
J
P
Zen Photon review
Replies
8
Views
3K
jim1274
J
Ravi Kempaiah
Tesla and NSERC team up to accelerate battery research at Dalhousie University in Canada - a new round of $6M funding
Replies
4
Views
2K
soyabean
soyabean
Ravi Kempaiah
Tesla and Dalhousie University in Canada renew and strengthen their partnership
Replies
7
Views
2K
Ravi Kempaiah
Ravi Kempaiah
D
Tesla's 2 million mile battery
Replies
6
Views
2K
indianajo
indianajo
Back