Steep Hills and Commuting

[dplesq]

Greetings to everyone. I am a pretty avid cyclist and in pretty good shape. I own a pretty nice non-e carbon fiber bike an love riding it on weekends. However, I do not ride it for commuting as my return commute is 6 miles with 880 feet of elevation gain. The route is steep for about 3.6 miles with an average gain. I can do this on my non-e bike, but it takes significant effort, and I simply do not want to exert myself that much after a long day at work.

So, my question is: Will the e-bike significantly reduce the amount of effort required to commute back? I now many variables are involved but I want to get a sense of whether this is a worthwhile investment. I'd like to bike, and not use the car, but I have no desire of having to exhaust myself on the way home. Any feedback would be much appreciated.

 

[eguy]

I was in a pretty similar situation to you. I have a 4.5 mile commute that has 650ft in elevation gain. The worst part is the street I live on which has 144ft in gain over .4 of a mile. I bought the 2018 RadCity and I love it, but it really does nothing for me on my street and steep hills (I get 5-8mph going up my street). I will add that I am not in cyclist shape at all and a mid-drive motor would have probably been ideal for me, but I didn't want to spend double or triple for a bike. The gearless motor just doesn't have the guts for really steep grades, plus the power limitation of 500W that Rad Power recommends. I will say that I have really been impressed in the quality of bike from Rad Power for the price, I have already put on over 50 miles the first week! Hope this helps in any way.

 

[dplesq]

Eguy- Very helpful indeed. If that is the case, and I will wait for additional replies, this would not be the bike for me. The primary reason for my wanting an e-bike is so the return commute is not painful and it does not seem that this bike would aid in that respect. Thanks!

 

[dplesq]

JayVee- Thanks! It seems like you are putting quite bit of effort there at the end but the rest of the way up it would seem that you were clipping along at a good pace. My commute is only an average grade of 3.6% (don't know what it maxes at). Perhaps a mid-drive motor would fit my needs better. However, I am still wondering whether I should be looking at an electric scooter instead since I have no desire to huff up hills after work. Some food for thought.

 

[OrangeWagon]

The hillier the better for the ebike in my opinion, that's when the ebike really has an edge. On flats if you can maintain 20mph on your road bike, then there is no much difference.

Similar situation here... avid cyclist, 160lbs, commute 13mi with 1600ft (one way).
On my 15lbs road bike I was able to do one way in about 1:10hr. On the 70lbs RadWagon I could do the same on 45mins! (on both bikes I was hauling ass, and on the e-bike I was on Assist 5 - If you want you can still sweat on the ebike)

So I was able to shave 30% time on my commute by going with the e-bike. In 6-8% grade segments where I normally do 6-8mph, I was able to do 12-14mph.

I'd get the RadCity if I were you (In my case, I also take my small kids in the bike sometimes, so I got the RadWagon)

 

[dplesq]

OrangeWagon- Thanks! I am not really interested in shaving time off of the commute. What I would like to be able to do is commute back and not break a sweat. Is that possible on a RadCity? Will the motor be powerful enough to power bike up hill with normal pedaling (i.e., without much exertion?).

 

[OrangeWagon]

In my experience, the Rad ebikes will certainly give you an extra push, but you STILL have to pedal... If I have to put a number, I'd say it gets 30% easier, but you still have to put the other 70% (if that helps).

However, reading the previous comments , I'd have to agree that a Mid-Drive motor, and maybe more power (1000w?) would help you with hilly terrain (Mid-drive motor takes advantage of the gears on the bike, just like your legs).
The Rad bikes only have direct-drive motors and 750w, but they are affordable.

 

[dplesq]

In my experience, the Rad ebikes will certainly give you an extra push, but you STILL have to pedal... If I have to put a number, I'd say it gets 30% easier, but you still have to put the other 70% (if that helps).

However, reading the previous comments , I'd have to agree that a Mid-Drive motor, and maybe more power (1000w?) would help you with hilly terrain (Mid-drive motor takes advantage of the gears on the bike, just like your legs).
The Rad bikes only have direct-drive motors and 750w, but they are affordable.

Thanks again! I think the Rad will not work for me if that is the case. Time to research some mid-drives.

 

[mrgold35]

I have two 2016 Radrover 4" fat tire bikes with +3800 miles between them with work and trail riding. I'm 6'3", 270 lbs, and about 70-75 lbs for the Radrover with all accessories (62 lbs for Radrover, rack, rack bag, lights, suspension seat post, tools, etc...). My 13 mile round-trip work commute elevation change goes from 4900ft at work to 5450ft for my home. Most Radrover ebikes all weigh about the same. Not going to save that much overall weight with a radcity, radmini, or radrover (radwagon weights the most).

The Radrover has the same 750 watt max power like the other Rad power bikes. I've never felt the Radrover was underpowered on the steepest part of my commute. Most riders on pedal bikes walk their bikes up the steepest part or they pedal 2-4 mph max. I can ride up the same steep section in PAS 3 (375 watts) or PAS 4 (550 watts) with my speed between 10-17 mph (depends on how energetic I am after work or how stiff the head wind).

I haven't tried Rad Power bikes other types of ebikes with the same 750w power. Maybe the 2X extra wide 4" rear hub motor might help put down more TQ when needed compared to other Rad bikes with thinner motors? My wife is 4'11" and 130 lbs and she flies up the same hill in PAS 3 while I need PAS 4, more pedalling, and a touch of full 750w throttle every once in a while to keep up with her.

The things I love about the Radrover 4" fat tires are:
- full 750 watt throttle at any PAS level, throttle comes in handy getting across intersections in a hurry
- fat tires are really smooth on any type of pavement, sidewalks, curbs, hard packed dirt, sandy trails, and rocky trails, very easy to transition to road, dirt, sand, mud, etc... without missing a beat
- comfortable upright riding position
- it can haul some weight and gear, max limit is 290 lbs for the Radrover
- inexpensive, I was able to get two radrovers+Saris platform rack for the average price of one mid-drive
- easy to work on, easy to upgrade, easy to ride

 

[Barry S]

@mrgold35 Would the difference in hill climbing performance between the Rad City and the Rad Rover be that the motor on the Rover is a "geared" hub where the City is "direct drive"?

 

[Chris Hammond]

Geared hubs have a clear advantage in low speed climbing over direct drives. The motor wind makes a difference as well. Some motors are wound to have better low speed performance, some are wound for higher speeds. You need to research the specs. This applies to all hub motors.
That being said, mid-drives have the biggest advantage in low speed operation due to using the bikes drivetrain. The downside obiously is more wear on drivetrain components, whereas hub motors actually reduce drivetrain wear. Back to the original post, if you are planning on using the bike as a weekend MTB, then definitely go mid-drive. No hub motor is going to perform well on low speed steep dirt climbing.

 

[eguy]

I will say that you can test ride Rad bikes with Velofix if you are in one of their areas: https://www.radpowerbikes.com/pages/where-to-ride

But like everyone here, I agree that it sounds like you need a mid-drive bike. They will cost you extra thousands (unless you build it yourself), but have much more torque which is good for those steep hills. Wish the RadCity was a mid-drive!

 

[Vince78]

I’d agree. I have a 17 Rad Rover and my commute is 15 miles to and from work. I’m in South Dakota with harsh winters, very strong wind and my ride has a good deal of up and down hills. To top it off I’m disabled and have ankle/foot issues not allowing me to pedal easily. I can’t ride a normal bike anymore so ebikes are perfect for me as it allows me to get outside and do what I can still. I have to use higher pas levels and often on hills have no option but full throttle. Not once has my bike ever had an issue and always has s*it up with ease. Rovers climb with the best of them and you’d have no issue. No point of spending more on a mid drive. Also read the rules, you can’t get a 1000w motor is not road legal. Nothing over 750 is so don’t waste your money on anything higher

 

[mikebikes]

I have two 2016 Radrover 4" fat tire bikes with +3800 miles between them with work and trail riding. I'm 6'3", 270 lbs, and about 70-75 lbs for the Radrover with all accessories (62 lbs for Radrover, rack, rack bag, lights, suspension seat post, tools, etc...). My 13 mile round-trip work commute elevation change goes from 4900ft at work to 5450ft for my home. Most Radrover ebikes all weigh about the same. Not going to save that much overall weight with a radcity, radmini, or radrover (radwagon weights the most).

The Radrover has the same 750 watt max power like the other Rad power bikes. I've never felt the Radrover was underpowered on the steepest part of my commute. Most riders on pedal bikes walk their bikes up the steepest part or they pedal 2-4 mph max. I can ride up the same steep section in PAS 3 (375 watts) or PAS 4 (550 watts) with my speed between 10-17 mph (depends on how energetic I am after work or how stiff the head wind).

I haven't tried Rad Power bikes other types of ebikes with the same 750w power. Maybe the 2X extra wide 4" rear hub motor might help put down more TQ when needed compared to other Rad bikes with thinner motors? My wife is 4'11" and 130 lbs and she flies up the same hill in PAS 3 while I need PAS 4, more pedalling, and a touch of full 750w throttle every once in a while to keep up with her.

The things I love about the Radrover 4" fat tires are:
- full 750 watt throttle at any PAS level, throttle comes in handy getting across intersections in a hurry
- fat tires are really smooth on any type of pavement, sidewalks, curbs, hard packed dirt, sandy trails, and rocky trails, very easy to transition to road, dirt, sand, mud, etc... without missing a beat
- comfortable upright riding position
- it can haul some weight and gear, max limit is 290 lbs for the Radrover
- inexpensive, I was able to get two radrovers+Saris platform rack for the average price of one mid-drive
- easy to work on, easy to upgrade, easy to ride

They say not to use the throttle going up hills, which is hard not to do at times. Whats your thought shaving some mileage on yours?

 

[TForan]

I have a bike with a 1000 watt mid drive and I can leave it in the highest gear for just about any hill. I tried the same with a hub drive and it shut itself off from the heat.

 

[mrgold35]

They say not to use the throttle going up hills, which is hard not to do at times. Whats your thought shaving some mileage on yours?

I find PAS 3 (375 watts) seem to be enough to handle most hills in my area to maintain a range of 9-16 mph depending on how hard I pedal with the summer heat or with a stiff headwind. I sometimes up the PAS to 4 (550 watts) if I have a headwind of +15 mph on the same ride and I want to maintain the same mph range.

I usually downshift first to try to keep my pedal rpms in the +60 range on long inclines. I sometimes use the throttle if I'm near the top of an incline and I'm starting to bleed off too much speed. It is usually a short full throttle run of less than 10 seconds just to get my pedal rpms back up. I find I only use my throttle in short 5-10 second burst most of the time just to reach a certain pedal rpm.

I have around +5000 miles between both rovers and haven't had any issues riding this way (+500 foot elevation gain riding home, 95-105 summer heat, 325-350 lbs of total weight being pushed by hub motor). I wouldn't do sustained full 750 watt power for more than 30-45 seconds on a steep incline because I would be worried about geared hub wear/tear and heat.

The only two times I used my throttle only was:
- pedal crank bolt fell off and lost my crank on a work commute ride. Retrieved the crank; but, had to use the throttle to get the 4 miles home (rad sent me a new crank bolt under warranty).
- wrecked my rover trail riding and broke 3 out 4 bolts on my stem holding my handle bars. Extremely hard to pedal and hold my floppy handlebar steady the +4 miles home. Used the throttle to get home (I would have to walk the rover home the +4 miles if I didn't have a throttle).