Replacing my stolen Vado 5.0 with a Vado SL 4.0?

[jodi2]

Stefan why do you bring up your need for motor support over 25km/h here? I still doubt your need ;-) but let's discuss this in a private conversation. The TE/TO here asked for hills (and of course the 25km/h does not exist with Vado/Creo SL in the US...).
I will adjust my thoughts a little bit and sum them up:
Of course the SL drive has less power than normal heavier drives/motors. But it's less than one would expect as the motor also has to push less weight and the rider is motivated to pedal harder, while more powerful ebikes put you a little bit more in couch potatoe mood. Also you get rewarded the less power with a great feeling/handling of the bike and an astonishing range. All this together makes the SL interesting for many needs and riders but of course not for all.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm normaly faster than almost all other riders with normal ebikes (which more motor support but much heavier)

Jodi. You considerations are only valid with the 25 km/h speed limiter. It is because you (riding a Creo and being a sporty type) can easily break the 25 km/h speed barrier, pedalling on your own leg power, and getting aerodynamic benefit as well. In such a situation, you actually ride a traditional bike. Your heavy e-bike "competitors" stand no chance here because they get stuck at 25 km/h.

Now, if there were two Class 3 road e-bikes: Creo and the full power Cannondale Topstone Neo Lefty (or Trek Domane HP+), you would stand no chance. Admit it

For one, me riding a Vado SL at 100% assistance, flat, no wind, no limiter, can only hit 34 km/h at the cost of tremendous battery consumption. More upright riding position doesn't help me, either.

Of course the SL drive has less power than normal heavier drives/motors. But it's less than one would expect as the motor also has to push less weight and the rider is motivated to pedal harder, while more powerful ebikes put you a little bit more in couch potatoe mood. Also you get rewarded the less power with a great feeling/handling of the bike and an astonishing range. All this together makes the SL interesting for many needs and riders but of course not for all.

The "big" Vado weighs 24 kg. The Vado SL 4.0 EQ is 17 kg. Now, I weigh 90 kg. Vado + I = 114 kg. Vado SL + I = 107 kg. It is 6 - 6.5% weight difference. At the same time, the Vado max power is 520 W while SL max power is 240 W. The Vado torque is 90 Nm, while Vado SL torque is 35 Nm. So much about clearing big hills...

 

[BEC111]

At 9.2 km/h, at 71 rpm against 18.6% incline? Running uphill?

Guys. There is no doubt SL e-bikes have a tremendous battery range but only if one or more conditions are met:

• The ride is at low speed, say 18 km/h average, or
• The rider is as fit as to provide huge contribution to the ride, or
• The ride is mostly unpowered.

Jodi2 says he has no problem to be faster than traditional cyclist on his Creo SL. My riding mates (including females) typically cruise at 30 km/h or faster. With the 25 km/h speed limiter, Jodi2 would need to ride without assistance. Why does he need the motor then? In my position, I can derestrict my Vado SL with a button click. Yet, riding at 25 km/h or faster with my legs, I need to provide as much of assistance that the battery range drops unacceptably low.

That's it.

The folks I regularly ride with, most on analog bikes, typically ride at 10-12 MPH. I often ride my Vado SL at 14-16. I can go faster, and conditions allowing and alone I often do. The trails I ride are usually crowded so 14-16 is often a challenge. On the rare occasions I ride on streets with cars I do try and go faster, but I don’t do that too often.

As for hills, most of the ones I travel have shallow gradients, 2-5%, but can be as long as a mile or more. These are easy for the SL. I have occasionally gone up steeper hills and when with folks on the higher power ebikes they definitely have an advantage. On the flats i can be faster then they are with their heavy class 1 bikes. When my battery died on a ride I was feven without batteries.

I suppose I’m pretty fit, and do enjoy going fast. But, I am also 73 and only restarted riding after 50 years last year so fitness is relative. Currently, I like the light weight of the SL. I couldn’t get a heavier bike into my SUV nor lift it onto my wall rack. I’ll deal with the lower power if I need to in 10 years when I’m an old man and need more help.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The folks I regularly ride with, most on analog bikes, typically ride at 10-12 MPH. I often ride my Vado SL at 14-16.

The only person I can ride together with on the SL is Jerzy, who is 74. Other riding buddies love cruising at 19 mph, and the typical distance is 70-80 miles with them. I would stand no chance on the SL with them. (One of my buddies demonstrated he could ride at 30 mph on his traditional gravel bike on the flat...).

 

[GuruUno]

The only person I can ride together with on the SL is Jerzy, who is 74. Other riding buddies love cruising at 19 mph, and the typical distance is 70-80 miles with them. I would stand no chance on the SL with them. (One of my buddies demonstrated he could ride at 30 mph on his traditional gravel bike on the flat...).

So then Stefan, what is the most distance you have done on the SL as well as the Vado??? Just curious.....

 

[BEC111]

You ride with much younger fitter fooks than I. My cohort is almost all 60 or older. Some of us are over 80.

Not only are we older folks often less physically capable, we’re also not in a hurry.

But we ride!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So then Stefan, what is the most distance you have done on the SL as well as the Vado??? Just curious.....

The longest SL ride has been for 116 km, with average speed of 20.4 km/h. I have used 436 Wh of main battery + RE combined for that ride.
The longest Vado trip was 168 km with 588 m of elevation gain. The average speed was 22.9 km/h. I used 1061 Wh from two batteries.
Another interesting Vado ride was for 125 km but with 1543 m of elevation gain. Average speed of 21.4 km/h. The batteries' use was 981 Wh.

I love riding the SL but on solo rides, where no one dictates how fast I should ride

 

[GuruUno]

The longest SL ride has been for 116 km, with average speed of 20.4 km/h. I have used 436 Wh of main battery + RE combined for that ride.
The longest Vado trip was 168 km with 588 m of elevation gain. The average speed was 22.9 km/h. I used 1061 Wh from two batteries.
Another interesting Vado ride was for 125 km but with 1543 m of elevation gain. Average speed of 21.4 km/h. The batteries' use was 981 Wh.

I love riding the SL but on solo rides, where no one dictates how fast I should ride

Wow. Maybe someday I'll attain similar stats. Working on it

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Wow. Maybe someday I'll attain similar stats. Working on it

I have designed a 100 km route for Saturday. An SL ride with maximum assistance to allow such a range. Riding through locations of Sobota and Piątek including Przezwiska (Saturday & Friday, Nicknames) I want a solo ride this time

 

[jodi2]

Stefan, you simply choose the wrong friends. You shouldn't search them among ex-olympic athletes, watch out in some fast food restaurants next time! ;-)

Jodi. You considerations are only valid with the 25 km/h speed limiter. It is because you (riding a Creo and being a sporty type) can easily break the 25 km/h speed barrier, pedalling on your own leg power, and getting aerodynamic benefit as well. In such a situation, you actually ride a traditional bike. Your heavy e-bike "competitors" stand no chance here because they get stuck at 25 km/h.

No, I was talking about uphill with speeds below or up to 25km/h, where all of us get motor support. I usually (slowly) pass all other ebikes also there. Of course you're right, that this can't be only from the lighter bike, as the extra motor power is much more. My explanation is that an assist drive like the SL also motivates to pedal harder while normal drives/motors make you lazy. Of course more interesting is be my own speed on those ebikes compared to my Creo. I did not manage yet to split myself in two to ride with a standard 25km/h bike next to me one the Creo. But I get sometimes a standard 25km/h ebike from the LBS when one of my ebike is there for repair or inspection. And I'm not faster even uphill/below 25km/h on the roads there than with my Creo.

But of course passing other 25km/h ebikes when we're all above the motor limit, is very nice and one of the few rewarding aspects of having a 25km/h Creo ;-) (in a country with 25km/h ebike limit...).

 

[Rollerkat]

Just want to say I really appreciate this conversation Thank you all for the info, too! I'm hoping that an SL shows up at my LBS so I can try it, but it's definitely difficult to find right now. Maybe next spring...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Maybe next spring...

Just be aware it is wise to order your future e-bike in the wintertime (e.g., in January) the latest. You could get it delivered by the spring. (It was the same before the pandemic).

 

[Rollerkat]

Yeah, here we can't even order...just ask to be notified when orders are being taken again. It's a bummer.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Yeah, here we can't even order...just ask to be notified when orders are being taken again. It's a bummer.

Talk with your Specialized LBS. They can preorder your chosen e-bike. I was in a position I wanted a very specific Vado SL (including its colour). The LBS told me they could take the preorder (and I needed not to pay anything). My e-bike would arrive in December this year the earliest. I almost asked them for doing that, and then I spotted the current SL 4.0 EQ size M on the display. I bought it right on the spot That way, I could ride it in this season.