Reasonable pricing for batteries

[shiggletard]

Hi everyone!
This is my first post, so if I've made a mistake, please be nice!

My question is what would you consider a reasonable price for a 48v 8.7Ah ebike battery?
I recently converted my specialized rockhopper to a 1500w direct drive ebike but whilst I was looking for batteries, I was unable to find anything affordable.
I thought that the cheapest way to get a good quality battery is to do it myself, so I build a spot welder with a car battery and a relay and I ordered 40, 18650 cells from aliexpress (December 1st, 2020). 3 months later, the batteries still hadn't arrived, so I looked into buying individual cells locally (Canada) to find out that sellers want over $10 per cell.

After concluding that buying individual cells may not have been the best idea, I decided to look into buying an assembled battery pack, and I was, again greeted with prices that were way out of my budget.
Since I was having trouble finding batteries that wouldn't break the bank, I assumed that other people are probably facing the same challenge as well, so I started talking to some battery manufacturers and found that I could finally get some batteries at reasonable prices, as long as I purchased them in bulk.

I ordered a test shipment of one, 48v 8.7Ah battery and tested on my DIY ebike, and it totally performed! The battery easily maxed out my kt-lcd3's current display of 1999W and lasted over 6 hours while my friends and I found out what my ebike's max speed was and how many other people I could pull with it.

After seeing that the battery was working as intended, I decided that I wanted to start a battery business.
After calculating how much I needed to sell the batteries for to turn a profit, I found that I would need to sell the batteries for $350CAD each.
Do you think that $350 is a reasonable price for a battery with the following specs? 48v, 8.7Ah, 30A continuous discharge with 45A peak.
If $350CAD is too much, what would you think a reasonable price would be?

Here are photos of my DIY ebike and the battery I talked about selling:

 

[m@Robertson]

Well, I'm going to tell you things you aren't going to want to hear:

There is an enormous body of experience in the DIY ebike community with regard to the dangers of doing business with Far Eastern companies who have poor, spotty or nonexistent reputations but who seem ok and an example or two of their product appears to be performing well.

I would never consider a battery seller who did not either have a longstanding reputation in the community, or who I vetted personally via private contacts.

Price is NOT a factor as a battery that claims to have genuine name-brand cells, but is instead using something else, or that has shoddy construction only visible upon taking the battery apart... at best the consequences can be a waste of money and at worst a battery fire inside my home or office.

Now, that doesn't mean everyone uses their head when it comes to buying batteries. If I had a dollar for every time I saw someone tout a UPP-branded pack and how much money they saved, I would have my bar tab paid off. At the same time, I have been watching and participating in the DIY ebike community for long enough that I have seen plenty of customer service and physical failures from those packs (as well as one expert disassembly and materials analysis) to be able to say, at least for myself, that buying that brand is not worth the risk.

So frankly, there is no price I'm willing to pay from an unvetted vendor. Nothing personal... the risks for not having your act together on a quality battery are just too great.

 

[shiggletard]

Thanks for the reply.
I know that (usually) asian companies can sometimes be sketchy which is why I tested the battery myself and I could totally understand anyone's scepticism. I was slightly sceptical at first too.
With that being said though, what yould you pay for a name-brand 48v 8.7Ah battery?

 

[m@Robertson]

That is such a small pack, there's not a lot of use for them in the DIY world. However I know of one trusted seller who offers them in a straight 8ah size. This is a US vendor who builds locally once an order is placed. Its a 52v pack but its the closest I would be able to point to from someone I would buy from.

https://bicyclemotorworks.com/product/ebike-battery-pocket-rocket-ii-52v-8ah/

 

[shiggletard]

It looks like my price of $350CAD would be pretty competitive compared to this one. Thanks
Although I believe that my battery packs have the capacity that they are listed as, I realise that most people won't. Could you give me some advice on how I can prove that my business is legitimate and the batteries I'm selling are genuine?
Thanks

 

[m@Robertson]

It looks like my price of $350CAD would be pretty competitive compared to this one. Thanks
Although I believe that my battery packs have the capacity that they are listed as, I realise that most people won't. Could you give me some advice on how I can prove that my business is legitimate and the batteries I'm selling are genuine?
Thanks

Well honestly, you have to have the technical chops to examine the construction of the pack and be able to tell people why its of good quality. What cells are used (mfr and model)? What about the welding method? The quality of the strips used to make the pack? Framework surrounding the individual cells (there are arguments for and against. Whats your position and why)?

Being able to demonstrate technical competence in selling what could be a firebomb, then you have to do the hard work and sell for a period of time and develop a reputation for zero failures.

There is no easy way out. What is your alternative? Guarantee you'll rebuild someone's home if the pack goes blooie? There's just no simple move forward. Especially if you don't have the technical background to go with the business you want to be in.

 

[Mikev]

Leon Cycle (leoncycle.ca or leoncycle.com) appears to have reasonable prices using Panasonic batteries. $389 Cdn for 48V13Ah.

 

[shiggletard]

Well honestly, you have to have the technical chops to examine the construction of the pack and be able to tell people why its of good quality. What cells are used (mfr and model)? What about the welding method? The quality of the strips used to make the pack? Framework surrounding the individual cells (there are arguments for and against. Whats your position and why)?

Being able to demonstrate technical competence in selling what could be a firebomb, then you have to do the hard work and sell for a period of time and develop a reputation for zero failures.

There is no easy way out. What is your alternative? Guarantee you'll rebuild someone's home if the pack goes blooie? There's just no simple move forward. Especially if you don't have the technical background to go with the business you want to be in.

Thanks, That makes sense

 

[indianajo]

Check this thread: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/is-this-battery-pack-for-real-106.43001/unread
Based on experience of a poster on that thread, if one is willing to buy a throw away credit card to avoid giving the ****ese hackers entry into your Canadian bank account through your regular card, the price for 48v 8.x ah is about $80. Delivered to the US. The warrenty is void since a purchaser can't ship a battery back for credit, but a lot less than a Canadian or US stocked battery that comes with a warrenty.

 

[kmccune]

Thats not a very big battery anyhow.