Radrover issues...is this normal???

[Ryan71]

I have owned a 2019 radrover for a little over three months & have had one issue after another. I will say the rad support team has been very good to deal with however with all the issues I'm starting to wonder if I simply received a defective bike?

Since owning the bike I've had to have the battery replaced due to lack of range & power, the controller replaced due to inaccurate mileage readings, & now the display.

Current issue, which rad assures me is normal, is when I'm riding in real time my speed is not reflected accurately. For instance when almost at a complete stop the display is reading 10-12 miles per hour. The speed will actually read 5-8 miles per hr at a dead stop for 5 to 10 seconds before dropping to 0.
I have tested this by lifting rear wheel & appling throttle. Speed reaches 22/ 23 mph then when break is applied it will freeze for a second or two then trickle down to 0. What is so odd is that it did not start doing this until just recently. Coupled with all the issues I've unfortunately had it really concerns me that the issue may be in the moter itself.
Can anyone tell me if this is normal. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

I have owned a 2019 radrover for a little over three months & have had one issue after another. I will say the rad support team has been very good to deal with however with all the issues I'm starting to wonder if I simply received a defective bike?

Since owning the bike I've had to have the battery replaced due to lack of range & power, the controller replaced due to inaccurate mileage readings, & now the display.

Current issue, which rad assures me is normal, is when I'm riding in real time my speed is not reflected accurately. For instance when almost at a complete stop the display is reading 10-12 miles per hour. The speed will actually read 5-8 miles per hr at a dead stop for 5 to 10 seconds before dropping to 0.
I have tested this by lifting rear wheel & appling throttle. Speed reaches 22/ 23 mph then when break is applied it will freeze for a second or two then trickle down to 0. What is so odd is that it did not start doing this until just recently. Coupled with all the issues I've unfortunately had it really concerns me that the issue may be in the moter itself.
Can anyone tell me if this is normal. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

The speed issues and reading issues you cite are very common with cheap and low quality aftermarket kits. The other issues it would be very hard to determine if that stuff happens to a lot of Rad products. It's rare to have an issue with the motor itself, but not uncommon to have issues with embedded hall sensors, mosfets, or controllers, again on lower quality products. It's the inconsistency of production, and the low cost supply chain that is constantly in flux, as they all compete with each other, and try to work on super low margins in China. Rad could have a decent place assembling the components, but at the price point they sell, and the super low price they pay for the ebike itself, it puts the entire supply chain the are working with under untenable price pressures. And don't forget they did not pass on 25% tariffs to end customers, so whatever quality they had just a couple years ago HAD to be compromised with end price staying the same. You get what you pay for and there is not much meat on the Rad bones to cut, when you see its super low price versus the vast majority of models in the market, 50% higher or double or triple their price.

This makes the odds much higher that people like you are going to end up with what they experience as a lemon. People who bought pre tariff probably have much more robust product and consistent quality, and fewer complaints. This web site is a very very small sampling of actual Rad or other ebike buyers. So it would be hard to detect what is happening from members here. Statistically the % of issues would have to be much higher before showing up in any discernable amount on this forum. The reality is The tariffs and price pressures are why there have been so many changes in the same models over the past 18 months, where they try to pass it off via an aesthetic improvement, but in the guts of the product you can't visually see changes in what is often called 'value engineering' such as the controller, motor, and other components that are more complex. Their marketing is quite clever, and covering up a lot but it's superficial. Can only apply so much 'lipstick.'

Maybe they can keep customers 'happy' or at bay, by being responsive over the phone. Good luck with your ebike, and hate to see this happen to anyone no matter the brand.

 

[rich c]

Can't say it would bother me if the display said 100mph for 5 seconds at stop. Knowing the speed at all is just a curiosity, I don't ever change speed if I look down and see some number. As long as the bike performs well, don't sweat it.

 

[Ryan71]

The speed issues and reading issues you cite are very common with cheap and low quality aftermarket kits. The other issues it would be very hard to determine if that stuff happens to a lot of Rad products. It's rare to have an issue with the motor itself, but not uncommon to have issues with embedded hall sensors, mosfets, or controllers, again on lower quality products. It's the inconsistency of production, and the low cost supply chain that is constantly in flux, as they all compete with each other, and try to work on super low margins in China. Rad could have a decent place assembling the components, but at the price point they sell, and the super low price they pay for the ebike itself, it puts the entire supply chain the are working with under untenable price pressures. And don't forget they did not pass on 25% tariffs to end customers, so whatever quality they had just a couple years ago HAD to be compromised with end price staying the same. You get what you pay for and there is not much meat on the Rad bones to cut, when you see its super low price versus the vast majority of models in the market, 50% higher or double or triple their price.

This makes the odds much higher that people like you are going to end up with what they experience as a lemon. People who bought pre tariff probably have much more robust product and consistent quality, and fewer complaints. This web site is a very very small sampling of actual Rad or other ebike buyers. So it would be hard to detect what is happening from members here. Statistically the % of issues would have to be much higher before showing up in any discernable amount on this forum. The reality is The tariffs and price pressures are why there have been so many changes in the same models over the past 18 months, where they try to pass it off via an aesthetic improvement, but in the guts of the product you can't visually see changes in what is often called 'value engineering' such as the controller, motor, and other components that are more complex. Their marketing is quite clever, and covering up a lot but it's superficial. Can only apply so much 'lipstick.'

Maybe they can keep customers 'happy' or at bay, by being responsive over the phone. Good luck with your ebike, and hate to see this happen to anyone no matter the brand.

@ Mike's ebikes....thank you for your reply! What your saying makes alot of sense nonetheless it's a hard pill to swallow when you essentially invest $1600 bucks on a paperweight!

 

[Tars Tarkas]

Well, I'm biased too, but the other way. I've had a RadRover for 14 months and have about 1500 miles on it. My computer got waterlogged in a torrential downpour. Rad replaced. I haven't had any of the problems you're talking about. I don't recall hearing about them on the forum either (which doesn't mean they haven't been discussed). There is a sub-forum here on known issues with Rad bikes. There's one on just about every brand. You might find that and read through it.

In my experience and from everything I've heard Rad does a good job of making things right, so I'd keep communicating with them while your bike is under warranty.

I have a 2018 pre-tariffs bike, but I'm not aware of anything about the 2019 bikes being downgraded, which doesn't mean they weren't.

Good luck getting your issues resolved!

TT

 

[AHicks]

It sounds to me like you are seeing an average speed. This vs. "real time" which is what most of us would expect (like our car's speedo for instance).

My '18 City wasn't like that. It read "real time". I'd call them back. I've been given the bum's rush by their tech dept. on several occasions....

Not the first time Mike has shared anti Rad sentiments, deserved or not.

 

[Tars Tarkas]

If it is average speed (read the manual) but press and hold the top control button for a second or two. That cycles the display among actual speed, average speed, and high speed (since power-up).

TT

 

[AHicks]

There you go! It's a darn shame a "trained tech" couldn't supply you with that advice...

Should be a lesson regarding reading the manual as well though.....

 

[Ryan71]

Can't say it would bother me if the display said 100mph for 5 seconds at stop. Knowing the speed at all is just a curiosity, I don't ever change speed if I look down and see some number. As long as the bike performs well, don't sweat it.

@ rich c.....I hear ya. What I suppose is more bothersome is not necessarily this current issue so much as all the issues I've had to deal with in just under 3 months. As stated above you get what ya pay for, I was just expecting more from a 1600 dollar investment.
I'm also concerned that the current issues maybe linked to an internal problem, like a mis-placed sensor, for example in the hub drive motor itself. This is essentially the essence of the bike & may very well lead to the bike not performing at all.
As it stands the bikes performance is sub-par @ best.....or my expectations to high??

 

[Ryan71]

If it is average speed (read the manual) but press and hold the top control button for a second or two. That cycles the display among actual speed, average speed, and high speed (since power-up).

TT

@ Tars Tarkes....that was the first thing I tried...unfortunately to no avail.
Thank you however for your response.

 

[Ryan71]

There you go! It's a darn shame a "trained tech" couldn't supply you with that advice...

Should be a lesson regarding reading the manual as well though.....

@ AHicks......I will say rad support tech's have been very attentive & helpful in making the effort to rectify the issues.
That being said it has reached a point that I'm fairly certain I received a defective bike from the start.....something they are just not going to agree with.
Believe me when I tell ya....I've read that manual so many times I practically have it memorized.

 

[Ryan71]

Well, I'm biased too, but the other way. I've had a RadRover for 14 months and have about 1500 miles on it. My computer got waterlogged in a torrential downpour. Rad replaced. I haven't had any of the problems you're talking about. I don't recall hearing about them on the forum either (which doesn't mean they haven't been discussed). There is a sub-forum here on known issues with Rad bikes. There's one on just about every brand. You might find that and read through it.

In my experience and from everything I've heard Rad does a good job of making things right, so I'd keep communicating with them while your bike is under warranty.

I have a 2018 pre-tariffs bike, but I'm not aware of anything about the 2019 bikes being downgraded, which doesn't mean they weren't.

Good luck getting your issues resolved!

TT

@TT.......I absolutely agree with you that rad has been great to deal with. As I mentioned they replaced my battery, controller & display without any hesitation. I dont believe my experience to be the norm as I ride with a couple of different rad owners who like you have over a thousand miles & do little more than tighten spokes & swap out tires. I just find it odd to have experienced so many significant issues in such a short window. Again this leads me to believe the bike may have been defective from the start.
I certainly dont believe it's the norm but it does happen.
I'm hoping it's not an issue with the hub motor itself & holding out hope that if it should be rad will address it accordingly.
Thanks again for your response.

 

[rich c]

@ rich c.....I hear ya. What I suppose is more bothersome is not necessarily this current issue so much as all the issues I've had to deal with in just under 3 months. As stated above you get what ya pay for, I was just expecting more from a 1600 dollar investment.
I'm also concerned that the current issues maybe linked to an internal problem, like a mis-placed sensor, for example in the hub drive motor itself. This is essentially the essence of the bike & may very well lead to the bike not performing at all.
As it stands the bikes performance is sub-par @ best.....or my expectations to high??

Expectations are a personal thing, not something that could be validated. My first eBike was $500 on Craigslist in 2015. Even that seemed high to me, since my last new Schwinn bicycle cost $113 in 1965. But the Sondors performed quite well for 1600 miles. My last eBike cost $6000. At 150 miles it developed a horrible clunking in the drivetrain. Based on video evidence, and some other assembly issues I had from the dealer, they sent me a completely new eBike. Expectations were met for me.

 

[Ryan71]

So is it safe to assume this is not "normal" for my radrover behave in such a way?
Particularly interested to hear an answer from other rad power bike owners.
Thanks!

 

[AHicks]

Ryan, the buttons on that up/down switch have been know to provide some trouble for some riders. Have you tried pushing in on that up button since you originally tried it? Is it giving you any trouble on other functions, like changing your PAS level?

 

[Ryan71]

Ryan, the buttons on that up/down switch have been know to provide some trouble for some riders. Have you tried pushing in on that up button since you originally tried it? Is it giving you any trouble on other functions, like changing your PAS level?

AHicks.....yes as a matter of fact I have messed with the settings you reference frequently. My first thought was like many who replied.....maybe its average speed or top speed settings causing the issue but it is set correctly & still acting strangly.
The only issue I've noticed with PAS is varying levels of wattage output.....for instance I usually ride PAS 2 & used to consistently get about 130/132 watts now however it's more around 120/123.
I just find it odd for this to all of the sudden just start to happen. It definitely did not do this from the start. Coupled with all the other issues I've had it really concerns me despite rads insistance that its perfectly normal. They have yet to explain why it wasn't like this out of the box.
Thank you for taking the time to offer your input & help.
Do you think it could be related to a sensor issue inside the rear hub?

 

[AHicks]

Not very likely a sensor in the hub issue. That's just a magnet going past a pickup supplying one pulse per wheel revolution. Just about as simple as you can get, and not capable of supplying the readings you talk about.

After going back and rereading your original post, I remain fairly convinced you are getting "average" speed.

What do you get when changing this setting to one of the other 2 settings (maximum, and average)? Have you checked to see if they seem accurate? For instance, in max speed mode, if you spin the rear tire up using full throttle while holding it off the ground, you should see a reading that is in excess of 20mph, and it should stay at that reading until you power down and then back up again a few seconds later. At that point it should read 0.

 

[Ryan71]

Not very likely a sensor in the hub issue. That's just a magnet going past a pickup supplying one pulse per wheel revolution. Just about as simple as you can get, and not capable of supplying the readings you talk about.

After going back and rereading your original post, I remain fairly convinced you are getting "average" speed.

What do you get when changing this setting to one of the other 2 settings (maximum, and average)? Have you checked to see if they seem accurate? For instance, in max speed mode, if you spin the rear tire up using full throttle while holding it off the ground, you should see a reading that is in excess of 20mph, and it should stay at that reading until you power down and then back up again a few seconds later. At that point it should read 0.

@AHicks....when you say power down I assume you mean press middle button to shut bike off?
When I do this in max speed it quickly reaches speeds in excess of 20mph & will stay at that speed when I apply the brakes. I then power it down & when powered back up it is at 0 however it's no longer set at max speed....it defaults back to regular mode.
When I repeat process on average speed it reads 0 at full throttle for a good 30 seconds then registers at 15 to 18mph again it stays there but again when powered down then back on it automatically returns to regular mode @ 0mph.

 

[AHicks]

I'm confused a bit (no concern, not too unusual ). You say on "average" speed, with tire off the ground, the speedo eventually reads 15-18 mph when you spin the tire up with the throttle - and stays there after releasing the throttle? It doesn't come back down to 0 shortly after the wheel stops turning? How does this compare to what happens in "regular mode"?

Was this issue apparent from the time the bike was new?

 

[Ryan71]

I'm confused a bit (no concern, not too unusual ). You say on "average" speed, with tire off the ground, the speedo eventually reads 15-18 mph when you spin the tire up with the throttle - and stays there after releasing the throttle? It doesn't come back down to 0 shortly after the wheel stops turning? How does this compare to what happens in "regular mode"?

Was this issue apparent from the time the bike was new?

@AHicks.....No it does not come back down to 0 after wheel stops turning. The only way to get it to come back down to 0 is to power bike off completely then back on. As I mentioned when I power back on it automatically goes from being set in automatic speed to real- time/ average speed. I would think that it would remain in average speed mode until I manually change it however not the case.
In average speed it will reach 20 plus mph then when breaks applied it will freeze at top speed for a good 10 seconds then trickle down to 0...total estimated time to return to 0 about 20 seconds.
This was definitely not the case when I first got the bike. It would go from 20mph to 0 without hesitation when applying breaks.
This is precisely why iam convinced this is not normal behavior despite rads insistance that it is. They have yet to explain why this just now started to happen vs from the get.