Before buying my Juiced ccs2 I asked more than once exactly what class it is. I have it in writing that the ccs2 has a class 2 sticker and is a class 2 bike which has a throttle. I even mentioned the legality and they confirmed its a class 2 as shipped. But they said you can change it in the software.
RadCity or Aventon Pace 500
- Thread starter Royflight
- Start date
D
Deleted member 4210
Guest
350 is Class 2. 500 is Class 3.
As I said I was trying to compare apples to apples as the Rad comes with a suspension fork. BTW, the current swept back cruiser style handlebar would be the first thing I replace. A flat bar handlebar will run about $20. So problem solved. BTW, I think pace 500 has a head tube that is tapered with an 1-1/8" steerer so you shouldn't have much trouble finding a 27.5 suspension fork if you so desire, preferably with a lockout.
D
Deleted member 4210
Guest
Yes it's tapered, but a suspension fork won't be found that will work. Aventon has looked into it.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
If you read the law it isn't a class 2 or 3. It doesn't fall within the constraints of any class. The bike is capable of at least 28 mph, some say 35 mph, but at least 28. It has a throttle. To say the speed is user defined is the same as saying a class 2 bike is a class 1 bike when the throttle isn't used. It doesn't follow the spirit or the letter of the law.
@harryS is right. The Pace 500 would be a class 3 >>ONLY IF<< you unplug and remove the throttle (which will take you all of 60sec to do). Probably why the throttle is limiting speed to 20mph (and will be the 2nd thing I do to reprogram and remove that limit 
). Maybe we should think of the Pace 500 as hybrid class between 2 & 3.
). Maybe we should think of the Pace 500 as hybrid class between 2 & 3.
D
Deleted member 4210
Guest
No. class 3 is 28 mph limit under Pas. And 20 mph w throttle. The legislation has always been that way. No need to remove throttle, and no you won't be able to remove the limit of the throttle speed.@harryS is right. The Pace 500 would be a class 3 >>ONLY IF<< you unplug and remove the throttle (which will take you all of 60sec to do). Probably why the throttle is limiting speed to 20mph (and will be the 2nd thing I do to reprogram and remove that limit
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
The more time passes, the more I hate these class laws. It divides us ebikers, it allows targeted regulation and confuses buyers. Actually nowhere in the law does it allow a class 3 bike to have a throttle of any speed. The law is written in detail and the legislatures obviously know the difference between PAS and throttle. If they intended to allow throttle to 20 mph on a class 3, that would be in the law. It would be as simple as stating a class 3 combines all of class 2 with the addition of pedal assist to 28 mph.
harryS
Well-Known Member
Still disagree, Mike. Class III in our great state of Illinois doesn't allow throttle. The following excerpted from
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=062500050K1-140.10
(c) "Class 3 low-speed electric bicycle" means a
low-speed electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches a speed of 28 miles per hour.
It's also that way in other states that have adopted the Class definitions.
That said, I'd send my friends to buy a Aventon out of your shop over an (ugh) RadCity,
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=062500050K1-140.10
(c) "Class 3 low-speed electric bicycle" means a
low-speed electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches a speed of 28 miles per hour.
That said, I'd send my friends to buy a Aventon out of your shop over an (ugh) RadCity,
D
Deleted member 4210
Guest
The Illinois legislation was modeled under the 3 class legislation in other states. Class 3 only defines the speed limit under assistance from the motor. It does not exclude any throttle per se, but all use of throttles if they are on any ebike is always going to be limited to 20 mph. This is to allow the ebike to remain classified as a non motorized vehicle, and remain in the same class as a bike. As soon as you have a throttle that goes above 20 mph, then the vehicle becomes a motorized vehicle under federal law. Then like a moped it would need to have a VIN and be registered with the state as a motorized vehicle. The laws seem vague, but as is typical of legalease, they are clear when you read them in full and not in isolation of each other. I.e you need to take state laws within the context of federal law. Thus a class 3 ebike can either have a throttle or no throttle, but any throttle is always going to be limited to 20 mph unless a user tampers with it and modifies it. Which is illegal if riding on public roads or bike paths. I spent time on the phone with Mitch Marrison who used to be with People for Bikes.org (now with Lyft), the entity mostly responsible for the widespread adoption of this 3 class legislation. This was before I started my business, and the legislation was designed to cover a lot of potentially conflicting interests without harming the industry and it's growth. Like all legislation there are imperfections, but a far worse outcome of completely eliminating ebikes in many states, or limiting all speeds to less than 15 mph could have easily happened, and thwarted this ebike business here in the US.
Last edited by a moderator:
D
Deleted member 4210
Guest
FAQ from PeopleforBikes.org.
"I have read the federal definition of an e-bike and it says that the top speed is 20MPH. How are class 3 e-bikes legal given the federal definition? The federal definition uses very specific language to delineate the top speed of e-bikes. The 20 MPH threshold applies when the e-bike is being operated “solely” under motor power. However, e-bikes are most commonly ridden under a combination of human and motor power. The federal definition does not provide a top speed for when an e-bike is being operated under combined human and motor power. The class 3 definition clarifies this ambiguity by specifying the maximum assisted speed for e-bikes at 28MPH. "
https://peopleforbikes.org/our-work/e-bikes/policies-and-laws/
Another FAQ:
"Why is this legislation needed? In many states, electric bicycles lack a specific vehicle classification. In these states it is unclear how they are regulated, or they may be interpreted to fall within terms primarily aimed at combustion engine vehicles such as mopeds or scooters. These classifications that were never intended to apply e-bikes. This legal scheme creates significant confusion for consumers and retailers, and hinders the electric bicycle market.
In order to clarify state law, and properly regulate electric bicycles like traditional bicycles, it is critical to understand the existing legal rules that govern electric bicycles. What other states use the classification system in this bill?
As of 2019, 18 states (Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Washington and Wyoming) have passed laws that define three classes of e-bikes in their traffic statutes. Is similar legislation being advanced elsewhere in 2019? Yes. In 2019, identical legislation is pending in Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, New York, Texas and Wisconsin."
(To date, its actually 22 states now that have adopted this 3 Class law.)
"I have read the federal definition of an e-bike and it says that the top speed is 20MPH. How are class 3 e-bikes legal given the federal definition? The federal definition uses very specific language to delineate the top speed of e-bikes. The 20 MPH threshold applies when the e-bike is being operated “solely” under motor power. However, e-bikes are most commonly ridden under a combination of human and motor power. The federal definition does not provide a top speed for when an e-bike is being operated under combined human and motor power. The class 3 definition clarifies this ambiguity by specifying the maximum assisted speed for e-bikes at 28MPH. "
https://peopleforbikes.org/our-work/e-bikes/policies-and-laws/
Another FAQ:
"Why is this legislation needed? In many states, electric bicycles lack a specific vehicle classification. In these states it is unclear how they are regulated, or they may be interpreted to fall within terms primarily aimed at combustion engine vehicles such as mopeds or scooters. These classifications that were never intended to apply e-bikes. This legal scheme creates significant confusion for consumers and retailers, and hinders the electric bicycle market.
In order to clarify state law, and properly regulate electric bicycles like traditional bicycles, it is critical to understand the existing legal rules that govern electric bicycles. What other states use the classification system in this bill?
As of 2019, 18 states (Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Washington and Wyoming) have passed laws that define three classes of e-bikes in their traffic statutes. Is similar legislation being advanced elsewhere in 2019? Yes. In 2019, identical legislation is pending in Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, New York, Texas and Wisconsin."
(To date, its actually 22 states now that have adopted this 3 Class law.)
This says you are wrong: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/everything-about-the-ebike/stories/three-class-ebike-system/
The three classes are defined as follows:
- Class 1: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and have a maximum assisted speed of 20 mph.
- Class 2: eBikes that also have a maximum speed of 20 mph, but are throttle-assisted.
- Class 3: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with NO throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
California, the first to pass the model legislation.
(3) A “class 3 electric bicycle,” or “speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour, and equipped with a speedometer.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1096
People for bikes states the same for the "model legislation".
(c) “Class 3 electric bicycle” shall mean an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour.
https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Model-eBike-Legislation-06282018.pdf
I can't find any state with the 3 class law that allows a throttle on a class 3 bike. They all seem to follow the above rule. Assistance only when pedaling. I don't see any ambiguity in the rule.
(3) A “class 3 electric bicycle,” or “speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour, and equipped with a speedometer.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1096
People for bikes states the same for the "model legislation".
(c) “Class 3 electric bicycle” shall mean an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour.
https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Model-eBike-Legislation-06282018.pdf
I can't find any state with the 3 class law that allows a throttle on a class 3 bike. They all seem to follow the above rule. Assistance only when pedaling. I don't see any ambiguity in the rule.
With respect to the law, individual states are responsible for implementing laws NOT federal this from an article
"This law distinguishes, at the federal level, e-bikes that can travel 20 mph or less under motor power alone from motorcycles, mopeds and motor vehicles. Devices that meet the federal definition of an electric bicycle are regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission and must meet bicycle safety standards. However, as a 2014 e-bike law primer notes, this federal law only applies to the e-bike’s product standards and safety.
State traffic laws and vehicle codes remain the sole domain of states and state legislatures. In other words, the manufacturing and first sale of an e-bike is regulated by the federal government, but its operation on streets and bikeways lies within a state’s control. Thus, many states still have their own laws that categorize e-bikes with mopeds and other motorized vehicles, require licensure and registration, or do not enable them to be used on facilities such as bike lanes or multi-purpose trails. "
"This law distinguishes, at the federal level, e-bikes that can travel 20 mph or less under motor power alone from motorcycles, mopeds and motor vehicles. Devices that meet the federal definition of an electric bicycle are regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission and must meet bicycle safety standards. However, as a 2014 e-bike law primer notes, this federal law only applies to the e-bike’s product standards and safety.
State traffic laws and vehicle codes remain the sole domain of states and state legislatures. In other words, the manufacturing and first sale of an e-bike is regulated by the federal government, but its operation on streets and bikeways lies within a state’s control. Thus, many states still have their own laws that categorize e-bikes with mopeds and other motorized vehicles, require licensure and registration, or do not enable them to be used on facilities such as bike lanes or multi-purpose trails. "
ChezCheese:)
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Kitsap Co, WA
Have you tried out the bikes you are interested in? Are these the two you have narrowed it down to, or are you going strictly by online reviews? By online reviews, I thought I wanted an eProdigy, but it did not feel good to me when I actually rode it. So I tried a whole bunch of ebikes-- maybe a dozen. My friend has a 2018 Giant Quick e, and it's terrific, but when I rode the 2019, I didnt like the fatter tires and in general, I just liked the BH Atom Diamond Wave (wish it had a simpler name!) It's a big purchase. Maybe take a daytrip to a city where you can try out several. Only buy after you've tried, and buy the one that feels good to you.
D
Deleted member 4210
Guest
Nope. Read the actual laws buddy. I highly doubt all the ebike firms shipping their bikes with class 3 lables on them, and their corporate lawyers would get it wrong. Also you cite Boschs website who lobbied heavy against everything but Class 1, and has a vested interest in class 1 bc that's what they primarily build for Europe and their numbers abroad dwarf what they sell in the US.
D
Deleted member 4210
Guest
Yes. The Pace 500 has a class 3 label on the frame.
D
Deleted member 4210
Guest
Every state with Class 3, allows a throttle. You arent reading nor interpreting the laws properly. Class 3 only defines that the 28 mph must be accomplished under pedal assist. Not one of the state's laws excludes specifically a throttle on class 3. Look at all the reviews here on EBR, and nearly every model that is Class 3, unless it's a mid drive by Bosch, Yamaha, brose, shimano, will also have a throttle.
These dozens of ebike firms that offer class 3 bikes with throttles aren't idiots, and further would not break the law by selling their ebikes with something that breaks the law! (Though some low life ebike firms do sell ebikes that break laws by allowing higher speeds and wattages that are too high, but then get 'cute'and try to tell the consumer they are only legal on private property. That's not only dumb but less than ethical. )
Similar threads
