Rad Rover 60v 64A (4000w) regen

[JTK77]

Your information is invaluable- thank you.

When it got the hottest around 125c (max temp), do you have any idea how hot the motor case was around this time or just after this time- were you able to put your hand on it for ~1 second at this temp?

On a long ride (continuous) 20-30mph it seems I can maintain around 800-1100 motor watts, perhaps 1200-1500 battery watts average- any higher than this causes a heat buildup / overheat. Do you have any idea on what numbers you are averaging or how many watts you can run consistently, to give an idea of how much of a difference the venting makes?

Asking the same thing a different way- Grin simulator shows wide open on flat ground at ~40mph would be around 1700-2000 motor watts and 2000-2500 battery watts. Could you go wide open all day long on a flat highway without overheating, for example? Grin says the unvented motor should overheat after 10-15 mins in this scenario.

Cannot say 100% sure but I would say the casing did not get too hot to though for second...at least for big margin.
I have increased power alot while vent holes in place so lack comparison. My estimate is ~2000w average for 30min is ok.
I have not tested high speeds for longer times. I have winding temp logging system in place so I can in theory test.

 

[Boosted]

Cannot say 100% sure but I would say the casing did not get too hot to though for second...at least for big margin.
I have increased power alot while vent holes in place so lack comparison. My estimate is ~2000w average for 30min is ok.
I have not tested high speeds for longer times. I have winding temp logging system in place so I can in theory test.

Ok so G062 running 50a/90a phase, running it hard- Stripped gears and multiple drive/magnet pins within 200 miles. Magnets overheated and all came loose not long after. Finished the job by burning the windings within 1/2 mile of a 25% grade with a already hot motor. That motor is done.

New G062, I got from Risun Motor on aliexpress, its a bigger 14mm axle and the magnets seem to be glued better- you can visually see the epoxy. Stripped gears within 200 miles and broke the magnet pin again- broken about 5 pins in total. I dont think it was from heat, my thinking is from jumping and hammering the motor hard, big hits are shearing the drive key causing play which damages the gears on big hits. Just put on on steel/nylon gears, stainless/carbon drive pin- going to see how long it lasts. Still a work in progress.

I have liquid cooling and such at the ready, not sure if the motor will last long enough to test it out though :/ going up to 120+ phase amps this week.

Just FYI if it helps anyone.

 

[JTK77]

This version runs 60v 114A peak (DC). Well over 200A phase.

 

[Boosted]

This version runs 60v 114A peak (DC). Well over 200A phase.

View attachment 156231

Clean wiring. Its going to be a loooong time until someone out does that setup!

 

[Boosted]

This version runs 60v 114A peak (DC). Well over 200A phase.

View attachment 156231

I ended up going with your venting approach! How has your motor been handling those power levels, any issues? Any issues with debris entering the motor?

Did you break the clutch at some point? You said you found the failure point around 4000w, curious what that meant?

 

[Chargeride]

Thats freakin awesome, Ive never even seen one of those 1000w versions for sale.
I run my 750 go6 at 45 amps peak, dont know what that is in phase amps, melted a few phase wires, and did de magnet a 350w version.
Never stripped cogs, or broke clutch or Woodruff key and Ive completely battered them off road.
Heres my fatbike climbing a mountain and it performs much better than I thought, the bike could pass for a street legal.
You can see how hard I punish electrically and mechanically, I guess 4kw is just too near the edge.

 

[Boosted]

Thats freakin awesome, Ive never even seen one of those 1000w versions for sale.
I run my 750 go6 at 45 amps peak, dont know what that is in phase amps, melted a few phase wires, and did de magnet a 350w version.
Never stripped cogs, or broke clutch or Woodruff key and Ive completely battered them off road.
Heres my fatbike climbing a mountain and it performs much better than I thought, the bike could pass for a street legal.
You can see how hard I punish electrically and mechanically, I guess 4kw is just too near the edge.

You have a sweet setup, and lightweight! The G062 comes in 750 and 1000, they are identical as far as I know- except the motor connector. I found a supplier that has the L1019 connector on the 750w versions, and 750w is the USA legal limit, so its the perfect motor for me in the USA.

I ride the same rocky/mountain trails offroad and beat the thing to death including jumping it to flat. Not sure if its the heat or from bashing the motor around, but I demagneted a G062 and a G060 both and sheared atleast 3 if not 4 woodruff keys on 2 separate G062 motors, but only when running phase current around 70-90a+. The stainless steel woodruff key has worked like a charm, I havent had a problem yet at 90-120 phase amps, but continue to test it. If ever ordering a G062 motor, I recommend risunmotor on aliexpress, they have the L1019 connectors, 6.5T winding, 14mm axle, cassette, and the magnets appeared to be epoxied better than some of the other motors, but thats just speculation.

After upgrading the woodruff key and gears, the only issue lately has bene overheating the motor on long rides or hill climbs, running it 3000w nominal 90a phase. the venting should help a bunch, and also downsized my wheels significantly to 23" OD. I'm planning to take mine up to ~7000w as well shortly, fingers crossed.

 

[Chargeride]

You have a sweet setup, and lightweight! The G062 comes in 750 and 1000, they are identical as far as I know- except the motor connector. I found a supplier that has the L1019 connector on the 750w versions, and 750w is the USA legal limit, so its the perfect motor for me in the USA.

I ride the same rocky/mountain trails offroad and beat the thing to death including jumping it to flat. Not sure if its the heat or from bashing the motor around, but I demagneted a G062 and a G060 both and sheared atleast 3 if not 4 woodruff keys on 2 separate G062 motors, but only when running phase current around 70-90a+. The stainless steel woodruff key has worked like a charm, I havent had a problem yet at 90-120 phase amps, but continue to test it. If ever ordering a G062 motor, I recommend risunmotor on aliexpress, they have the L1019 connectors, 6.5T winding, 14mm axle, cassette, and the magnets appeared to be epoxied better than some of the other motors, but thats just speculation.

After upgrading the woodruff key and gears, the only issue lately has bene overheating the motor on long rides or hill climbs, running it 3000w nominal 90a phase. the venting should help a bunch, and also downsized my wheels significantly to 23" OD. I'm planning to take mine up to ~7000w as well shortly, fingers crossed.

Holy crp, you really are pushing it .
That bike is running a 24inch rear tyre, it made quite a difference to climbing ability.

 

[Boosted]

Holy crp, you really are pushing it .
That bike is running a 24inch rear tyre, it made quite a difference to climbing ability.

Good to hear! If its 24x4 fat tire, its probably about 27" overall diameter, bigger than most 24 tires because of the extra sidewall height.

Not at the level of JTK77, but I feel my motor is getting nearly maxed out at this point in the 3-7kw range, and at 72v. Theres really not too much more that I can do for more torque/less overheating than wheel size. I was surprised to find out how much of a difference it can make on these hubs, after playing around on the grin simulator for way too long, I figured a 30-50% improvement not only in climbing ability but also heat reduction is potentially reasonable by going from a 27.5" down to a 22-23". I went several sizes down to a 17" rim with about 23.0" overall. Hoping between the venting and the smaller wheel a combined improvement of nearly 100%- hoping to be able to climb hills like in your video without needing any cool-down breaks along the way, is the goal.

 

[JTK77]

I ended up going with your venting approach! How has your motor been handling those power levels, any issues? Any issues with debris entering the motor?

Did you break the clutch at some point? You said you found the failure point around 4000w, curious what that meant?

The gluing of magnets failed at 4000w mark (heat and magnetic forces). Slightly upgraded motor wiring failed at 7000w mark.
Besides cooling the motor venting cools nylon gears so they can take lot more torque.
Also very important to use lots of good grease like shc100 or Mobil 28.
I have welded clutch, circulating liquid cooling, 8 awg phase wiring with L1019 + MT60 connectors. Winding temperature is monitored using temp sensor and Bluetooth logging system (connected to app with alarms and cvs export capability).

 

[Boosted]

The gluing of magnets failed at 4000w mark (heat and magnetic forces). Slightly upgraded motor wiring failed at 7000w mark.
Besides cooling the motor venting cools nylon gears so they can take lot more torque.
Also very important to use lots of good grease like shc100 or Mobil 28.
I have welded clutch, circulating liquid cooling, 8 awg phase wiring with L1019 + MT60 connectors. Winding temperature is monitored using temp sensor and Bluetooth logging system (connected to app with alarms and cvs export capability).

Thank you sir. A true pioneer.

- I'm assuming you took off all the magnets when gluing, or did you epoxy around them in place? You dont happen to have a link where you can purchase these 30x15 magnets do you? (worried about breaking them).
- Slightly upgraded wiring refers to the OEM wiring from axle and beyond, and upgraded to a 12awg grin L1019 where it comes out of axle?
- Any particular reason why you are trying to keep winding temps so low at 100-120c rather than going beyond?

 

[JTK77]

Thank you sir. A true pioneer.

- I'm assuming you took off all the magnets when gluing, or did you epoxy around them in place? You dont happen to have a link where you can purchase these 30x15 magnets do you? (worried about breaking them).
- Slightly upgraded wiring refers to the OEM wiring from axle and beyond, and upgraded to a 12awg grin L1019 where it comes out of axle?
- Any particular reason why you are trying to keep winding temps so low at 100-120c rather than going beyond?

Removed all magnets. Then cleaned and sanded all surfaces before gluing them back on with Permabond ET5441. Afterwards heat treated the gluing. Did not replace any magnets. Magnets are strong and somewhat fragile. They should be handled one by one avoiding dropping them. Never Stack them. I stored them on pieces of cardboard against fridge door.
Yes, phases coming from my controller was 12 awg but stock G062 motor phases after L1019 are thinner. When slightly upgrading I replaced them with 12 awg exluding the ~4 inch part inside axle (13awg did fit). The wiring failed just in there although phases did not short but melted hall wires insted. Phase wires are heat resistant but hall wires are not.
Reason for trying to keep windings at 100-120°C is more keeping safe margin and efficiency. Having some margin avoids me having to keep too much eye on temps in general. Also extensive heat is bad for the gears...

 

[Chargeride]

im not running halls, running sensorless on a cheap chinese controller, only an occasional issue from standstill start

 

[Boosted]

im not running halls, running sensorless on a cheap chinese controller, only an occasional issue from standstill start

Thats exactly what I do on one of my bikes. I was able to fit the 12awg phase wires through axle, just couldnt quite fit the hall wires through. Sensorless can be a little annoying, not sure if it limits torque at startup, but otherwise has worked great for me too.

My new G062 is a 14mm bigger axle, not sure if it has more room to fit the full 12awg harness through- thinking it may have more clearance than the 12mm? I guess if I melt my phase wires I will find out!

 

[Boosted]

My clutch welded itself. Bike works perfectly fine, the only reason I knew is the sensorless speedometer started working when off the throttle. Took it apart and sure enough the clutch is seized. I also have a welded clutch but my concern is if the gears inside the motor were to seize or lock up, it could be a dangerous situation with the whole back tire locking up uncontrollably, so I’m hesitant to use the welded clutch?

Replaced with non welded clutch for now. Side note g062 uses same gears as G060 but the clutch is not compatible it spins the opposite direction.