Rad Power vs Volt Bikes.

[Tromboner98]

So to preface, I am not a cyclist. I’ve had the same cheap mountain bike from Walmart since I was 12, and I ride it once a year on a camping trip. I’m looking to buy an ebike for two reasons. Number one is that I hope to move in the near future. I’m an actor and I currently live in a very rural, non cycling friendly area. I hope to move to New York, Atlanta, or Chicago soon. Still don’t know which one. I’m anticipating that, wherever I go, cycling is gonna make my commute better, especially in New York. The other hope is that by buying an ebike I’ll motivate myself to actually follow through and relocate cause I’ll have to look at that bike every day and say to myself “that is the biggest financial waste, if I don’t move and use it”.
The second reason, which is probably not as justified as the first one, but is the bigger driving force behind me wanting a bike is that they’re stupidly fun. I’ve only ever ridden one ebike and it was a Hilltoppers tire and battery kit. I think it was on 24 Volts or something low like that. And I’ve been jealous of that thing for years now. My annual camping trip is coming up soon (aka the best opportunity this year to get use out of an ebike), so I need to make a decision soon. SO! To the point. IM GONNA PUT THIS IN BOLD SO IF YOURE SKIMMING THIS WILL CATCH YOUR EYE AND YOU CAN SKIP ALL THE INTRO STUFF THAT WASN’T PART OF THE MAIN POINT.

There are a TON of reviews on here. And they all kind of seem to boil down to “the bike has x features and x cons and overall it’s a pretty good bike” and I’ve TRIED to educate myself but I feel like I don’t know anything still. I’m trying to stay in the $1500 range. I have to be able to order it online as there are no bike stores anywhere near me. The two I’ve been able to identify as my favorites are the Rad City, and the Voltebike Elegant. But I just don’t feel informed enough to really make a good decision

 

[WilliamT]

One of the biggest costs in having an e-bike is the battery. Rad Power Bikes uses a generic battery that can be purchased from other vendors for less (looks like the Luna Shark and previous Dolphin). The battery on the Volts are used by a lot of other brands, but I don't see many of these available from third party vendors. If they are, they are not inexpensive.

Technically, with the Volt, you can change to a different battery form factor, but then you'll have a compromised frame.

 

[Tromboner98]

One of the biggest costs in having an e-bike is the battery. Rad Power Bikes uses a generic battery that can be purchased from other vendors for less (looks like the Luna Shark and previous Dolphin). The battery on the Volts are used by a lot of other brands, but I don't see many of these available from third party vendors. If they are, they are not inexpensive.

Technically, with the Volt, you can change to a different battery form factor, but then you'll have a compromised frame.

See I was functioning under the assumption that the only thing that mattered about the battery was the Volt and Amp Hour. Now you’re telling me that if I had two 48 V 12 AH batteries from different brands that one of them could be good and the other one might suck?

 

[Ann M.]

@WilliamT, what you say about "compromised" is incorrect. There are a lot of suppliers of quality batteries that will work. Luna is just a reseller of various Chinese manufactured batteries. What you and Tromboner98 should understand is that it's the quality of the cells inside and the BMS that determine what makes a good battery. If you spend just a little more and choose one with Panasonic, Sony or Samsung cells rather than generic Chinese 18650 cells, you will have a safe product. Use the correct charger and you're good to go .

 

[WilliamT]

What I meant was that if a battery was designed to fit into the frame, then your basically stuck with that case design. On the Rad bikes, the battery sits on the frame so you can switch out other batteries without affecting the bike frame.

Luna no longer sell Chinese batteries.

 

[charlesbrenthirak]

Correct me if I am wrong: 2018 Rad e-bikes use a proprietary battery that can NOT be replaced by a generic battery (though they can be 're-celled). I went to the rad shop in Ballard and talked to one of the service/sales persons. He told me this. I am on a list to get a 2017 model just so i could use a generic battery. I loved the Rad bikes: they looked solid in the shop. It was raining so i chose not to test drive one though..

 

[WilliamT]

That's too bad. I use Luna Dolphin battery on my 2016 Radwagon. I plan on cutting the cable on the battery carriage and using an XT90 connector to hook up different aftermarket batteries. The 2018 battery still looks like a generic battery (Luna shark pack). If you pull it off and only see 2 pins, then its most likely generic. I have a shark pack on another one of my e-bikes and that connects just 2 wires to the controller.

The fancy batteries with Rosenberger connectors (6 pin) would more likely be proprietary.

 

[Barry S]

The 2018 battery still looks like a generic battery (Luna shark pack).

Agreed that the 2018 battery still looks like something from Luna Cycle. However, something must have changed because on Rad's website they state, "*The 2018 battery is not compatible with 2016/2017 models. We will be offering the 2016/2017 style battery with the upgraded 14Ah cells in Q1 of 2018. "

@Tromboner98 there is a big difference in the motors of the Voltbike Elegant and RadCity. The Elegant is a 500W geared hub motor, while the RadCity is a 750W direct drive motor. Which one might be a better choice will depend upon your destination. If you're going to be riding a lot of hills, paved or otherwise, a geared hub motor will probably be a better choice. If it's mostly flat then the direct drive is a good choice.

I know you'd like to get something for your upcoming camping trip, but I'd hold off until you've relocated. Then, visit the local bike shops (LBS) in the area that sell AND service ebikes and see what they have to offer. You might even find something you like more than the Elegant or the RadCity. They should also know the ebike laws in your area so you don't make a purchase you can't legally ride. Your LBS is going to be your best friend when your bike needs service and some LBS won't work on ebikes they didn't sell you. Of course, if you're comfortable doing your own maintenance then it's not an issue.

Both Voltbike and Rad Power Bikes are reputable companies. You'll find lots of satisfied customers from both. If you haven't already, make sure to watch Court's 2017 review of the Elegant and the 2017 review of the RadCity. The best of luck on your future ebike purchase and your move!

 

[WilliamT]

Agreed that the 2018 battery still looks like something from Luna Cycle. However, something must have changed because on Rad's website they state, "*The 2018 battery is not compatible with 2016/2017 models. We will be offering the 2016/2017 style battery with the upgraded 14Ah cells in Q1 of 2018. "

Yes, the pre-2018 uses a "Dolphin" style case while the 2018 uses a "Shark" style case so you can't swap the two because the battery cradles are different. Other than that, the motor is the same and the controller box looks the same. I just figured they used a flatter battery across the bikes because it allows them to use it on their new step thru model.

I own both style batteries and they both only have a red/black cable coming from the cradle. If there was some communication between controller and battery, I would think more pins are needed.

 

[Tromboner98]

Agreed that the 2018 battery still looks like something from Luna Cycle. However, something must have changed because on Rad's website they state, "*The 2018 battery is not compatible with 2016/2017 models. We will be offering the 2016/2017 style battery with the upgraded 14Ah cells in Q1 of 2018. "

@Tromboner98 there is a big difference in the motors of the Voltbike Elegant and RadCity. The Elegant is a 500W geared hub motor, while the RadCity is a 750W direct drive motor. Which one might be a better choice will depend upon your destination. If you're going to be riding a lot of hills, paved or otherwise, a geared hub motor will probably be a better choice. If it's mostly flat then the direct drive is a good choice.

I know you'd like to get something for your upcoming camping trip, but I'd hold off until you've relocated. Then, visit the local bike shops (LBS) in the area that sell AND service ebikes and see what they have to offer. You might even find something you like more than the Elegant or the RadCity. They should also know the ebike laws in your area so you don't make a purchase you can't legally ride. Your LBS is going to be your best friend when your bike needs service and some LBS won't work on ebikes they didn't sell you. Of course, if you're comfortable doing your own maintenance then it's not an issue.

Both Voltbike and Rad Power Bikes are reputable companies. You'll find lots of satisfied customers from both. If you haven't already, make sure to watch Court's 2017 review of the Elegant and the 2017 review of the RadCity. The best of luck on your future ebike purchase and your move!

Thanks for answering the question. I am aware of the difference between direct drive and geared hubs. Obviously I don’t know what it feels like to ride either of them, but on paper everything about the direct drive sounds better. I know it’s heavier but that doesn’t bother me. The way I understand it geared hub motors need a lot of maintenance and babying to keep functioning properly, where as direct drives have good longevity. How bad would you say direct drives are at tackling hills? Also, another thing I’ve become worried about since posting this, is the question of “how bad do I need torque sensing over cadence sensing?”

 

[Barry S]

I'm still shopping for my first ebike and my budget is really limited so all I've tested thus far are geared hub motors because of the hills on my commute. Others could give you much better input from their actual experiences so I'll defer to them.

 

[Rakku]

Thanks for answering the question. I am aware of the difference between direct drive and geared hubs. Obviously I don’t know what it feels like to ride either of them, but on paper everything about the direct drive sounds better. I know it’s heavier but that doesn’t bother me. The way I understand it geared hub motors need a lot of maintenance and babying to keep functioning properly, where as direct drives have good longevity. How bad would you say direct drives are at tackling hills? Also, another thing I’ve become worried about since posting this, is the question of “how bad do I need torque sensing over cadence sensing?”

Where did you get this information from?
Hub and direct drive have both pros and cons.
I prefer the gearless hub in the backwheel since it doesnt put any additional stress on the chain and about maintenance?
I have yet to do anything about the motor and Im over 500km in on the bike already.
As far as I know, I wont have to do anything about the motor in the future either, that thing is maintenance free.
And it didnt let me down once.

So I dont get how you get the idea that hub motors need maintenance and babying?
Thats news to me.

 

[Tromboner98]

Where did you get this information from?
Hub and direct drive have both pros and cons.
I prefer the gearless hub in the backwheel since it doesnt put any additional stress on the chain and about maintenance?
I have yet to do anything about the motor and Im over 500km in on the bike already.
As far as I know, I wont have to do anything about the motor in the future either, that thing is maintenance free.
And it didnt let me down once.

So I dont get how you get the idea that hub motors need maintenance and babying?
Thats news to me.

Based on the guide here that says Direct Drives are more durable, and a recent video where Court was talking to a dude that built his own bike, and the dude pointed out that 99 percent of geared hubs are nylon and last about 3 years before breaking

 

[Rakku]

Well I dont know about that, dont have my bike long enough to say if it breaks after 3 years straight.
But there are more then enough people who have more then 4.000 miles on their radrover or somesort with geared hub motor.
I have yet to read anything about a geared hub motor breaking or not working after a amount of time yet.

It may be right, but sounds like a hefty generalisation.

If you feel safer with a direct drive, go for it.
But nobody says those things cant break as well

 

[Dynamo Dan]

Tromboner, these 2 bikes are so close in terms of spec, price and appearance I'm not sure that there is a clear answer. Volt fans will tell you Volt bikes, Rad fans will tell you Radrover. I think we have to defer to the one guy who knows more about ebikes than anyone else, Court. If you haven't already, check out his YouTube video shot in Los Cabos where he takes out a couple of Rads and couple of Volts. Its a great video. He doesn't come right out and say which he prefers but if you listen closely, he gives a few hints as to his favourite. Bear in mind that the specs may be different to bikes currently being offered.

 

[mrgold35]

I have two his/her 2016 Radrovers with around 4500 miles between them. I use both to work commute and trail riding at 50-80 miles per week. The wife doesn't like to ride as much as I do and I just switch off ebikes to keep the mileage and wear/tear the same. I'm about 275lbs, Rover comes in at 70-75lbs with accessories/rack bag, commuter back pack of 10-15lbs, +5000 feet elevation, head winds 10-15 mph most days, gusts +25 mph, and always going up/down hills.

I picked the fat tire geared hub because to the 2X the TQ of 80 nm compared to only 40 nm of TQ for direct drive on other Rad Power bikes. At my weight, the extra TQ makes my Radrover a beast and I never felt it was underpowered on inclines, stiff headwinds, or sandy conditions when trail riding. I usually keep it at PAS 3 work commuting and PAS 2 trail riding because of extra TQ. I can reach 17-20 mph work commuting on level ground in PAS 3 if I'm not fighting a stiff headwind because of the TQ.

My wife is only 130 lbs and I can hardly keep up with her on inclines or headwinds because the Rover's TQ. I have increase my PAS levels and and pedal harder to match her in those conditions.

 

[Barry S]

@Tromboner98 I just had my first ride on a Voltbike Yukon 750 and the Voltbike Mariner. The owner was a participant in Voltbike's Ambassador program, which will pay the bike owner $100 if the person you let test ride your bike ends up buying one from Voltbike. The bike owner bought the Yukon for himself and the Mariner for his wife. In fact, it was so new that he only had 1.3 miles on it.

I'm not going to hijack your thread with my ride experience, but I may post it elsewhere or you can send me a private conversation message. Let me just say that other than pictures and YouTube videos, I've never seen either bike in-person. When I walked up to the Yukon, my jaw dropped. The bike is a beast! I think it's the huge fat tires that caught me off guard. As for the Mariner, it's more approachable but still a solid build and not some circus bike by any means. To be perfectly honest, I felt more comfortable on the Mariner than the Yukon, but after a few rides I could man up to the Yukon.

As for shipping, the owner told me both bikes survived the ocean shipment from WA to HI without any damage whatsoever. He only had to assemble the handlebars. There was a 2-week unexpected delay, but George Krastev notified him of such beforehand. For Hawaii buyers, you have to pick up the bike at a freight shipping warehouse in Waipahu. The owner warned me, "The box is big. Bring a full-size truck."

Go to the Voltbike site and see if there's an Ambassador in your area. These test rides made a huge impression on me.