RAD Power Bikes Going Bust

[John Bowman]

Two things: If a battery is fully waterproof it would also be sealed from air. You know how a shampoo bottle can pop its lid in your luggage in an airplane? A battery housing needs to breathe a little to account for pressure differentials. These differentials also happen with temp changes. Bike frames all have little holes and are not totally sealed for the same reason and if not treated steel frame will internally rust with time.
More significantly, in a totally other front I highly suspect that these batteries were not allowing for load leveling of the cells. That is super important. The batteries I use do allow for periodic load leveling. I charge to 90% all the time. This prolongs battery life over the years. Except just before a ride, once per season or every 3-mos; I charge them to 100% to load level the cells.

This is what AI says on the topic:
Problems with lithium (Li) batteries out of load level include irreversible damage from over-discharging, such as electrode damage and increased internal resistance, and shortened lifespan due to over-charging or cell imbalance. Over-discharging below the safe voltage threshold can cause permanent chemical and physical damage, while over-charging can lead to dangerous conditions like thermal runaway or bursting. Cell imbalance can lock away usable energy and lead to premature shutdown of the entire battery pack, even if other cells have charge remaining

The internal pressure would only change a few psi from temp changes, about like going from sea level to 10,000 feet. From 0 to 120 F pressure would change 6 psi, a lot less than your bike tire pressure. Any quality battery case can withstand that.
Your comment about the load leveling I think is much more critical, and for cheap batteries is probably as big a problem as corrosion if not more.

 

[John Bowman]

Two things: If a battery is fully waterproof it would also be sealed from air. You know how a shampoo bottle can pop its lid in your luggage in an airplane? A battery housing needs to breathe a little to account for pressure differentials. These differentials also happen with temp changes. Bike frames all have little holes and are not totally sealed for the same reason and if not treated steel frame will internally rust with time.
More significantly, in a totally other front I highly suspect that these batteries were not allowing for load leveling of the cells. That is super important. The batteries I use do allow for periodic load leveling. I charge to 90% all the time. This prolongs battery life over the years. Except just before a ride, once per season or every 3-mos; I charge them to 100% to load level the cells.

This is what AI says on the topic:
Problems with lithium (Li) batteries out of load level include irreversible damage from over-discharging, such as electrode damage and increased internal resistance, and shortened lifespan due to over-charging or cell imbalance. Over-discharging below the safe voltage threshold can cause permanent chemical and physical damage, while over-charging can lead to dangerous conditions like thermal runaway or bursting. Cell imbalance can lock away usable energy and lead to premature shutdown of the entire battery pack, even if other cells have charge remaining

PS on the holes in bike frames. Those are for pressure release during 1000 to 3000 degree welding, and 400 degree powder coating. Or 350 degree carbon fiber curing. Not for pressure changes in normal use.

 

[John Bowman]

LOL good old Trump and god bless all who voted for him

You are welcome. As an importer I support the Trump tariffs, US was going bankrupt from big negative trade imbalance which was a big reason for 25% Bidenflation.
If your business model relies on CCP slave labor, you need to be in another business.
https://www.state.gov/forced-labor-in-chinas-xinjiang-region/

 

[PedalUma]

I am not one to quote Ronald Reagan but will as far a Russia, free trade and tariffs. There is plenty of garbage these days on official .gov sites such as the FDA that cannot be trusted.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

As an importer I support the Trump tariffs

Who pays the tariffs?

 

[John Bowman]

Who pays the tariffs?

If you buy made in USA, nobody does.
If you really want foreign, then you pay 10-15% except for made in Communist country.
The tariff money you pay stays in the USA, think of it as funding SNAP.

 

[PedalUma]

Who pays the tariffs?

Mom's buying kids shoes in Target so it can go to billionaire tax cuts and to Argentina oh, and to launching a new foreign war congress has not authorized, and there is the rimming of Putin to get his wishlist in Ukraine. DOGE just got axed so there is that.

 

[Gordon71]

Here's a thought. If you want to comment on Rad going bust this is the place. If you want to comment on political s*it I would suggest the comment section at the end of yahoo news stories.

 

[stompandgo]

Here's another thought. There are people on here that cannot refrain from turning any discussion political. No bleating from any dissident is going to change their behavior. Me, I ignore them. I'm not here to discuss politics in any way, shape, or form. You do what you have to do, but nothing you say will change their behavior.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

If you buy made in USA, nobody does.
If you really want foreign, then you pay 10-15% except for made in Communist country.
The tariff money you pay stays in the USA, think of it as funding SNAP.

No e-bike, battery, motor or a controller is really made in the U.S. Perhaps that is one of the major problems for Rad.

 

[stompandgo]

I think that the major problem for Rad was financial mismanagement throughout the life of the company. You don't sell 600,000 items at at least $1,000 a pop and go broke unless you did something wrong along the way. Time will tell.

 

[John Bowman]

No e-bike, battery, motor or a controller is really made in the U.S. Perhaps that is one of the major problems for Rad.

Depends how you want to define USA. Many scholars say that by international law, Taiwan is a US insular area from WWII. Meaning products made there, are made in USA.
https://www.civil-taiwan.org/hartzell5.pdf

Due to political reasons, the US government will only say Taiwan status is "undetermined".
Basically this is from the 1972 Henry Kissinger brokered agreement where US recognized the PRC.
Before 1972 the US Government privately considered Taiwan to be a self governing dominion of the USA.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Who pays the tariffs?

he does and somehow thats a good thing.

 

[Jim1348]

There are so many brands out there now, it seems the market won't support them all. Covid took it's toll in 2023, and more recently, tariffs have pushed up prices. Sales have been slow to recover which is also having an effect. The used bike market is also growing and cutting into new bike sales.

Maybe we're approaching market saturation where everyone who wants an e-bike has one with sales limited to replacements or those who want to trade up.

I would expect to see lesser known brands go under, but a big outfit like Rad is a surprise.

I have been wondering when this would start happening. We have seen this in other areas over the years, too.

When I was in high school, CB radios became quite popular. I had some and so did a number of others in the area I grew up in. There were many companies selling them, but then they started vanishing. Today we are left with just a few CB radio manufacturers.

Similarly, I recall VCRs being very popular. There were both VHS and Beta formats. Lots of companies made VHS VCRs. I think Sony was the Beta choice. VCRs are no longer being made, as the last manufacturer, Funai Electric, stopped production in July 2016 due to declining sales and high manufacturing costs. While you cannot buy new ones, they are still available on the resale market through websites like eBay, Amazon, or at garage sales.

I also recall the 8 track tape players. I had one. Major manufacturers do not currently produce new 8-track players because the format is obsolete.

I also recall snowmobiles being incredibly popular in Minnesota, where I am from. There were many brands to choose from. Almost every company that sold outboard motors and farm tractors sold them. There were John Deere snowmobiles and even Mercury and Evinrude. There are four major snowmobile manufacturers: Arctic Cat, BRP (which owns Ski-Doo and Lynx), Polaris, and Yamaha. However, Yamaha has announced it will exit the snowmobile market after the 2025 model year, which will leave three main competitors going forward.

I expect that the same thing will happen to e-bikes. What we don't know is when this will happen and who will remain.

 

[Chargeride]

Snowmobiles were invented 90 years ago, I think ebike companies will just become stickers on generic frames and motors.

 

[ChezCheese:)]

A lot less snow these days...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Depends how you want to define USA. Many scholars say that by international law, Taiwan is a US insular area from WWII. Meaning products made there, are made in USA.
https://www.civil-taiwan.org/hartzell5.pdf

Due to political reasons, the US government will only say Taiwan status is "undetermined".
Basically this is from the 1972 Henry Kissinger brokered agreement where US recognized the PRC.
Before 1972 the US Government privately considered Taiwan to be a self governing dominion of the USA.

I can only see the White House thinks Taiwan R.O.C. is abroad.

The July 2025 U.S. tariff.

Further Modifying the Reciprocal Tariff Rates

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[Gordon71]

I have been wondering when this would start happening. We have seen this in other areas over the years, too.

When I was in high school, CB radios became quite popular. I had some and so did a number of others in the area I grew up in. There were many companies selling them, but then they started vanishing. Today we are left with just a few CB radio manufacturers.

Similarly, I recall VCRs being very popular. There were both VHS and Beta formats. Lots of companies made VHS VCRs. I think Sony was the Beta choice. VCRs are no longer being made, as the last manufacturer, Funai Electric, stopped production in July 2016 due to declining sales and high manufacturing costs. While you cannot buy new ones, they are still available on the resale market through websites like eBay, Amazon, or at garage sales.

I also recall the 8 track tape players. I had one. Major manufacturers do not currently produce new 8-track players because the format is obsolete.

I also recall snowmobiles being incredibly popular in Minnesota, where I am from. There were many brands to choose from. Almost every company that sold outboard motors and farm tractors sold them. There were John Deere snowmobiles and even Mercury and Evinrude. There are four major snowmobile manufacturers: Arctic Cat, BRP (which owns Ski-Doo and Lynx), Polaris, and Yamaha. However, Yamaha has announced it will exit the snowmobile market after the 2025 model year, which will leave three main competitors going forward.

I expect that the same thing will happen to e-bikes. What we don't know is when this will happen and who will remain.

Possibly but in all the examples you listed the items were replaced with something better. What would you replace the Ebike with that would be better?

 

[6zfshdb]

I have been wondering when this would start happening. We have seen this in other areas over the years, too.

I also recall snowmobiles being incredibly popular in Minnesota, where I am from. There were many brands to choose from. Almost every company that sold outboard motors and farm tractors sold them. There were John Deere snowmobiles and even Mercury and Evinrude. There are four major snowmobile manufacturers: Arctic Cat, BRP (which owns Ski-Doo and Lynx), Polaris, and Yamaha. However, Yamaha has announced it will exit the snowmobile market after the 2025 model year, which will leave three main competitors going forward.

I expect that the same thing will happen to e-bikes. What we don't know is when this will happen and who will remain.

All very true but for different reasons. Snowmobiles are disappearing around here as well, but it's mainly due to the lack of snow. 20 years ago, we averaged 50". Last season we had just 10". Every year, new bike trails are being built and the moderating climate & lack of snow have stretched the biking season. I don't see this as the reason for the decline in sales, at least around here anyway. YMMV.

 

[Jim1348]

All very true but for different reasons. Snowmobiles are disappearing around here as well, but it's mainly due to the lack of snow. 20 years ago, we averaged 50". Last season we had just 10". Every year, new bike trails are being built and the moderating climate & lack of snow have stretched the biking season. I don't see this as the reason for the decline in sales, at least around here anyway. YMMV.

On the other hand, ATVs and UTVs seem quite popular in Minnesota. Traditionally, ATVs and UTVs get put away when snow cover is here and snowmobiles come out. However, like you mentioned with the lack of snow, snowmobiles seem to remain in storage and many ATV/UTVers are extending that season. We have fewer places in Minnesota that permit winter ATV/UTV use compared to summer use, but that seems to be changing. More places are now allowing winter ATV/UTV use either year-round or when temperatures are below a certain point.