Quick update on Archon / Rohloff / Kindernay tests

[byunbee]

Only If you need advance replacement, I.e. want me to ship replacement before customer sends it to me.

What would be the difference since you're holding the cost of the wheel? Once you receive the old wheel, wouldn't the transaction be complete?

 

[pushkar]

What would be the difference since you're holding the cost of the wheel? Once you receive the old wheel, wouldn't the transaction be complete?

We will only put a hold in case of advance shipping.

 

[flocknut]

I'm sorry. I don' understand. The kindernay slips either beyond 7 or 4, meaning up through 7 and 4 it doesn't slip. But the Rohloff starts slipping at 5 and 2, ie more often than the kindernay. Why then is the kindernay weaker? What am I missing?

 

[onlineaddy]

@flocknut where are you getting that impression? Pushkar’s first observation is “The Kindernay is turning out to be a little bit stronger...”

 

[Wald]

When i built my ebike with the Ultra motor combined with the Rohloff hub, i noticed at my first test ride that shifting is a "delicate" process with such a powerful motor. Especially because since then i was only used to derailleurs.

So when reading trough this thread i got interested in how is WattWagons realizing smooth shifting with Bafang/ Rohloff combination?

@pushkar
Are you using one of those shift/ gearsensors? But do they actually work well with the Rohloff?

 

[flocknut]

@flocknut where are you getting that impression? Pushkar’s first observation is “The Kindernay is turning out to be a little bit stronger...”

Duh, you’re right. Don’t know how I misread it like that.

 

[pushkar]

When i built my ebike with the Ultra motor combined with the Rohloff hub, i noticed at my first test ride that shifting is a "delicate" process with such a powerful motor. Especially because since then i was only used to derailleurs.

So when reading trough this thread i got interested in how is WattWagons realizing smooth shifting with Bafang/ Rohloff combination?

@pushkar
Are you using one of those shift/ gearsensors? But do they actually work well with the Rohloff?

Hi @Wald
1. Rohloff does not shift under pressure - so you have to ease off the pedals to shift.
2. I know a few riders here use them with the Ultra, but I have not had much luck with those. May be @TomD can comment ?

 

[AdilDesai]

Hi @Wald
1. Rohloff does not shift under pressure - so you have to ease off the pedals to shift.
2. I know a few riders here use them with the Ultra, but I have not had much luck with those. May be @TomD can comment ?

Does the Kindernay shift under pressure?

 

[pushkar]

Does the Kindernay shift under pressure?

From the https://kindernay.com/faq/
Upshift: It is possible to upshift (to a higher/heavier gear) under close to full pedal power.
Downshifts: It is possible to downshift (to a lower/easier gear) under load, but the rider must slightly reduce the load on the pedals during the shift.


That being said, I would not recommend shifting under load - whether it is Rohloff, Kindernay or even a regular chain cassette. In my experience it grinds down the teeth ever so slowly, and those add up over time.

I would recommend easing off pedals for a split second before shifting. It becomes very intuitive after the first couple of time you do it.

 

[Ebiker33]

From the https://kindernay.com/faq/
Upshift: It is possible to upshift (to a higher/heavier gear) under close to full pedal power.
Downshifts: It is possible to downshift (to a lower/easier gear) under load, but the rider must slightly reduce the load on the pedals during the shift.


That being said, I would not recommend shifting under load - whether it is Rohloff, Kindernay or even a regular chain cassette. In my experience it grinds down the teeth ever so slowly, and those add up over time.

I would recommend easing off pedals for a split second before shifting. It becomes very intuitive after the first couple of time you do it.

What about if you are doing a throttle, just release and shift ?

 

[pushkar]

What about if you are doing a throttle, just release and shift ?

Yes. Almost like a stick shift car.

 

[onlineaddy]

I would recommend easing off pedals for a split second before shifting.

Yeah, think of it as clutching in before a shift with a manual transmission.

 

[onlineaddy]

Yes. Almost like a stick shift car.

Haha, you’re quick!

 

[Ebiker33]

Yes. Almost like a stick shift car.

Interesting, so just like you can ruin your manual transmission in a car by grinding the gears with bad shifting technique, same applies to the IGH
So I take it's a very bad idea to shift gears with the 3000w version under full load going up 30% grade hill ?

 

[pushkar]

Interesting, so just like you can ruin your manual transmission in a car by grinding the gears with bad shifting technique, same applies to the IGH

That is such a great analogy. I should use this to explain.

 

[pushkar]

Yeah, think of it as clutching in before a shift with a manual transmission.

Great way to explain it. I am going to use this.

 

[Wald]

Hi @Wald
1. Rohloff does not shift under pressure - so you have to ease off the pedals to shift.
2. I know a few riders here use them with the Ultra, but I have not had much luck with those. May be @TomD can comment ?

Yes, that's what i had to learn first. but you get used to it pretty fast.


However, it wasn't satisfying and i wanted to shift quicker.
So i made myself some sort of "clutch button". The red button labeled with the "horn" symbol is connected to the brake circuit from the motor. Whenever i press it the motor gets shut down, just like when pulling the brake lever.
So when i want to shift i press the button, reduce pressure on the pedals and twist the shifter, then release the button and hit the pedals again. When i get the timing right i can shift and accelerate pretty fast!

 

[Wald]

Yeah, think of it as clutching in before a shift with a manual transmission.

I always use the same description when explaining the shifting to someone who is about to test ride my ebike.

 

[Ebiker33]

Yes, that's what i had to learn first. but you get used to it pretty fast.


However, it wasn't satisfying and i wanted to shift quicker.
So i made myself some sort of "clutch button". The red button labeled with the "horn" symbol is connected to the brake circuit from the motor. Whenever i press it the motor gets shut down, just like when pulling the brake lever.
So when i want to shift i press the button, reduce pressure on the pedals and twist the shifter, then release the button and hit the pedals again. When i get the timing right i can shift and accelerate pretty fast!

Cool, so basically you created the first manual clutch for an Ebike

 

[onlineaddy]

I like that “clutch” button. Short of creating that for yourself, you can also feather the brake lever slightly to engage the motor cutoff (but not enough to actually brake) when shifting.