Powerful Fat Tire E-bike w/ Torque sensor from Juiced Bikes

[Macc]

Thanks Macc, I'm trying to summarize your data. Is this correct:

• 835 Wh (17.4Ah fully charged)
• ride 50 mi (over 4 days x 14 mi)
• 143 Wh remaining (about 16% battery capacity)

295 lb bike + rider, 45° F ambient temp, Eco Mode, 2400 elevation over 50 mi, 12T motor

Correct, except I neglected to mention that fully charged with the 2A battery charger showed only 53.8V instead of the 54.5V that I believe would be shown on a fully healthy fully charged battery. That difference between 53.8 and 54.5 could be due to any number of reasons, one of them being cells improperly stored for a number of months, but I just don't have the knowledge or facts to know. I also have the Cycle Satiator which I haven't used yet. I'll use it to see if its default setting of 54.5V at 4A will get the battery to register as 54.5V on the bike's display. Also as an explanation as to why 50 instead of 56 miles, during one of the rides I turned off the battery for about 3 miles to see how difficult it would be to ride on the flat and on slight inclines. The final 3 miles were when I had to push, coast, and ride the bike after the motor would no longer assist after the battery hit 43V. At the ideal operating temperature of what? seventy something degrees F we could maybe presume that some of those theoretical 143 Wh would have been available if I'd been able to get a full 100% charge, but the cutoff would have occurred at some point before the 835 Wh total depletion. As it was, I'm guessing I had about 2 Wh before the display and headlights shut off and the battery was essentially dead.

One other point I'd like to mention. During the roughly 6 miles that I rode the bike without pedal assist, I found it to be not so difficult so long as the inclines were no more than slight and short. So, for those of us who might want to ride our bikes in excess of 50 miles in a day without recharging, it would have been nice to have a "0" or pedal assist off mode for downhills and flats. Having to turn off the display or battery in order to get 0 assist is not very elegant.

 

[hurricane56]

Quick update: I’ve put about 100 miles on the HF. So far so good. Refinement is lacking compared to higher end factory bikes, but then again all of the Euro brands can’t do 40mph on the flats at full power. This was on street tires, in sport mode with all of my commute gear in two panniers.

 

[Chris M]

Took my maiden voyage today and was quite happy with the performance of the bike. I was disappointed to see scratches on the top rail while unboxing the bike and gouges on the seat post where seat is mounted. My front rotor appears to be warped and I was missing a spring off my quick release. I ordered the 21.0 Ah battery, how can I tell if they sent the right one?

 

[Chew Kwong Chee]

Quick update: I’ve put about 100 miles on the HF. So far so good. Refinement is lacking compared to higher end factory bikes, but then again all of the Euro brands can’t do 40mph on the flats at full power. This was on street tires, in sport mode with all of my commute gear in two panniers.

Hi Chris, is your HF 9T or 12T motor?

 

[Chris M]

Hi Chris, is your HF 9T or 12T motor?

9T

 

[hurricane56]

Took my maiden voyage today and was quite happy with the performance of the bike. I was disappointed to see scratches on the top rail while unboxing the bike and gouges on the seat post where seat is mounted. My front rotor appears to be warped and I was missing a spring off my quick release. I ordered the 21.0 Ah battery, how can I tell if they sent the right one?

Hi Chris, is your HF 9T or 12T motor?

9T in my HF. Plenty of power for a lighter rider, I’m about 140 lbs.

 

[jazz]

with all the Hype (hehe), I thought this thread would explode with info and reviews after people started receiving their HF's

 

[Macc]

with all the Hype (hehe), I thought this thread would explode with info and reviews after people started receiving their HF's

Me too. It's disappointing that there is so little participation. I don't expect an answer to this question, but "does anyone know of a forum where owners of the HF1000 participate more?"

 

[hurricane56]

There was some discussion in another thread about accessories. I've been busy riding the bike and now have about 200 miles on it, any specific things you'd like to know about it?

 

[Macc]

There was some discussion in another thread about accessories. I've been busy riding the bike and now have about 200 miles on it, any specific things you'd like to know about it?

Yeh, I know, I'm active in that thread as well. Here's my latest from that thread:

Has anyone used a chain keeper on this bike yet? If so, what brand?

I was thinking of the kind similar to that shown in the images below that might work with our non-quick release wheels, or does it even matter if it has a quick release on it or not? I already took my rear wheel off once and made a mess of my chain--put like 4 loops in it and couldn't figure out how to straighten it out.

 

[Rooster]

with all the Hype (hehe), I thought this thread would explode with info and reviews after people started receiving their HF's

Seems that it may have been all hype and not to special, heck I built a bike that will easily exceed 30 mph while everyone was waiting for the hype and it was a lot cheaper and probably go farther with a 24 ah battery J.S. It's dam sure better than the ocean current that I have. Oh and did I mention that I can get parts for it to.

 

[Macc]

There was some discussion in another thread about accessories. I've been busy riding the bike and now have about 200 miles on it, any specific things you'd like to know about it?

I've thought of trying a smaller chainring. I have no need to go upwards of 38mph (12T), not strong enough anyway (33 or 34 is probably my max at 25 psi--68 and 40 lbs overweight). So, if I replaced the 52 with a 42 or so, I imagine steep hills and unpowered on the flat would be easier, and slower? As it is I rarely use 2, 3, & S and gears 8 and 9. I'll be satisfied with a maximum of 28 mph. Does it sound like I'd be a good candidate for the change? And would there be any other changes or effects besides the chain length that I should be aware of?

I was also looking for some information about our Kenda Krusade Sport tires. They appear to be identical to the 4.0" Juggernaut Sport in every way but name. I am satisfied with them for now, but come summertime I will want to make some longer trips and would like to try some tires with significantly less rolling resistance (for more ease with unpowered pedaling), if that is possible. I was wondering if either the Origin8 Supercell (26 x 4.0") or Origin8 Captiv-8er (26 x 3.5") would be worth the cost? They are both street tires, but could I expect to get at least a 20% improvement in rolling resistance? Any relevant information or advice would be appreciated.

 

[Dunbar]

I have no need to go upwards of 38mph (12T), not strong enough anyway. So, if I replaced the 52 with a 42 or so, I imagine steep hills and unpowered on the flat would be easier, and slower? As it is I rarely use 2, 3, & S and gears 8 and 9. I'm satisfied with no more than 28 mph. Does it sound like I'd be a good candidate for the change?

I would go with a 44T ring and an 11 top gear on the cassette if you want the ability to cruise at 28mph. That gets you to 28mph at 90 rpm which is the fastest cadence I like to pedal continuously at without clip less pedals.

 

[hurricane56]

I'd check one of the online bike gear ratio calculators to see what the cadence would be with a smaller chain ring. I went the opposite way and got the 56T since my commute route has a lot of open ground to cover.

As far as tires, the first thing I did was pull the Kenda tires off of it. It would be hard to quantify the improvement in rolling resistance, but it's probably not 20%. If you don't want to replace your stock tires yet, play with the air pressure and see what works. My experience with fat bike tires is any pressure above 20 PSI, and you start to loose the nice cushy balloon effect of the tires. Anything above 25 PSI, and the tires have a lot less self-steering but feel more like motorcycle tires.

 

[Macc]

I'd check one of the online bike gear ratio calculators to see what the cadence would be with a smaller chain ring. I went the opposite way and got the 56T since my commute route has a lot of open ground to cover.

As far as tires, the first thing I did was pull the Kenda tires off of it. It would be hard to quantify the improvement in rolling resistance, but it's probably not 20%. If you don't want to replace your stock tires yet, play with the air pressure and see what works. My experience with fat bike tires is any pressure above 20 PSI, and you start to loose the nice cushy balloon effect of the tires. Anything above 25 PSI, and the tires have a lot less self-steering but feel more like motorcycle tires.

I'm retired and only use my bike for pleasure and exercise, so no need to get anywhere too fast. I chose the hyperfat for the
1) powerful, torquey (12T), quality rear hub motor
2) pedal assist with throttle
3) what I thought was state of the art torque sensor; I'm not so sure now due to the surging sensations and time delays
4) large battery
5) fat bike
6) fair price

If I can believe what I've read, the Kendas won't be lasting all that long anyway (1 to 2K) so I'll have them worn out by summer. I like trail riding on occasion anyway and the tread on the Krusades are adequate for the hardpacked, rooted single track I occasionally bike on. I rode 10 miles on trails with roots up to 6" in diameter today and had almost no problems at 12 psi on wet roots and occasional mud. The steep twisty stretches with wet roots were a bit difficult, but I found that if I stayed mostly in ECO and the low gears and used the throttle to augment my pedaling when called for, then just about everything I encountered was doable. Before this bike I rode a 20+ years old MTB with a 250W front hub kit (with only a full-on throttle) for 3 years on these same trails. The HF1000 is naturally far more powerful, far more pleasant to ride over roots, and much more stable. In spite of the surging sensations and time delays of the torque sensor/controller, I had a very good time today. By staying in ECO most of the time those issues were minimized.

I must be insensitive because I have never noticed anything I might think of as self-steering, even at 15 psi on asphalt. They seem to have plenty of grip, ride smooth enough, and are not too loud. I am, however, a novice in this area as this is my first experience with a fat bike except for the trial rides I've taken for only a few minutes each. I expect I'll use 15 to 20 psi on asphalt for the cush except for those times when I want maximum distance. On the trails I might try 10 psi next, although I wonder if the tires can carry almost 300 lbs over the roots without getting pinch flats.

 

[hurricane56]

The torque sensor needs improvement. There are moments where I’m riding in sport mode and then quickly have to stop pedaling. When that happens I feel the motor still giving assistance for almost 2 seconds before it stops. It’s something I can live with, but it’s soemthing that future buyers should know before getting this bike.

 

[Eglon]

with all the Hype (hehe), I thought this thread would explode with info and reviews after people started receiving their HF's

Everybody must be out riding

 

[Macc]

The torque sensor needs improvement. There are moments where I’m riding in sport mode and then quickly have to stop pedaling. When that happens I feel the motor still giving assistance for almost 2 seconds before it stops. It’s something I can live with, but it’s soemthing that future buyers should know before getting this bike.

Yes, that 2 seconds is especially problematic on narrow, twisty, rooted inclines at slow speeds!

 

[hurricane56]

Yes, that 2 seconds is especially problematic on narrow, twisty, rooted inclines at slow speeds!

I don’t recall seeing this issue in other assist levels. I’m usually going so fast in sport mode that my fingers are always at the ready for braking. A quick tap on the brakes activates the motor inhibitors.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

I'm retired and only use my bike for pleasure and exercise, so no need to get anywhere too fast. I chose the hyperfat for the
1) powerful, torquey (12T), quality rear hub motor
2) pedal assist with throttle
3) what I thought was state of the art torque sensor; I'm not so sure now due to the surging sensations and time delays
4) large battery
5) fat bike
6) fair price

If I can believe what I've read, the Kendas won't be lasting all that long anyway (1 to 2K) so I'll have them worn out by summer. I like trail riding on occasion anyway and the tread on the Krusades are adequate for the hardpacked, rooted single track I occasionally bike on. I rode 10 miles on trails with roots up to 6" in diameter today and had almost no problems at 12 psi on wet roots and occasional mud. The steep twisty stretches with wet roots were a bit difficult, but I found that if I stayed mostly in ECO and the low gears and used the throttle to augment my pedaling when called for, then just about everything I encountered was doable. Before this bike I rode a 20+ years old MTB with a 250W front hub kit (with only a full-on throttle) for 3 years on these same trails. The HF1000 is naturally far more powerful, far more pleasant to ride over roots, and much more stable. In spite of the surging sensations and time delays of the torque sensor/controller, I had a very good time today. By staying in ECO most of the time those issues were minimized.

I must be insensitive because I have never noticed anything I might think of as self-steering, even at 15 psi on asphalt. They seem to have plenty of grip, ride smooth enough, and are not too loud. I am, however, a novice in this area as this is my first experience with a fat bike except for the trial rides I've taken for only a few minutes each. I expect I'll use 15 to 20 psi on asphalt for the cush except for those times when I want maximum distance. On the trails I might try 10 psi next, although I wonder if the tires can carry almost 300 lbs over the roots without getting pinch flats.

Torque sensors are very hard to get right, and even harder to accomplish for any level of continued reliability, at these price points. They are mostly a 'fad' right now, unless someone is willing to shell out at least $5000 for an ebike, where the OEM has invested a LOT of time, R&D, etc to get the torque sensor to stay reliable. Better off staying with cadence sensors, unless you enjoy getting them replaced frequently.