Percentage of assist for different STePS systems

[Mass Deduction]

My web-search-fu has been failing me. I'm trying to find the percentage increase of each mode of assist for each Shimano STePS system. Or any of them.

By percentage assist I mean, how much each mode assists you. For example, Bosch Active Line and Active Line Plus gives you 40% assist in Eco, 100% assist in Tour, 170% Assist in Sport, and 250% in Turbo. Shimano acknowledges these things exist and suggest that a motor might, for example, assist you 70% in low and 250% in high, but it's said as a hypothetical rather than as a specific example.

Does anyone have any such specs for any Shimano motors? I'm particularly interested in STePS 6100 vs. 8000.

It does occur to me that STePS 7000 and 8000 allow their levels of assist to be tuned, so it'd be particularly nice to know what that does. For example, what percentage of assist difference is Boost on low vs. medium vs. high.

Any info appreciated. At this point I'm trying to decide between going with STePS 6100 or STePS 8000. The STePS 8000 has the obvious advantages of being more max torque (70 vs. 60 Nm), and the ability to tune the levels of assist. But STePS 6100 would be less expensive and would satisfy me. But I am curious as to the efficiency of one vs. the other, since range is probably going to be the tie-breaker for me between E8000 power/tuning vs. E6100 price. I'm wondering if E6100 is more efficient because it's a year newer than E8000, or is E8000 more efficient because it's higher end, or if it's a wash. I'd be wanting to do rides of hundreds of kilometres long and get every kilometre out of the batteries that I can, so motor choice may be key here.

But I'd be interested in different STePS motors too, aside from these two that I'm particularly interested in.

 

[McCorby]

Sorry, I can’t answer your question, but a search on the EMTB forum probably can.....at least in regards to the E8000, since it’s very popular with e mountain bikes. My Felt commuter bike has the 8000 and I absolutely love it. Very smooth, responsive and powerful. I have ridden several bikes with Bosch, as well as a couple with Brose. They all have their pluses and minuses, but the Shimano system is my overall favorite!

 

[emtbdude]

There are some knowledgeable gear heads over on endless sphere as well. Even if there isn't a current thread, you can ask the forum and they'll likely point you in the right direction.

 

[Mass Deduction]

There are some knowledgeable gear heads over on endless sphere as well. Even if there isn't a current thread, you can ask the forum and they'll likely point you in the right direction.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check Endless Sphere out (whatever that is, I expect it'll be obvious once I do a web search).

I found an article (https://www.bikeexchange.com/blog/shimano-steps-e6000-bosch-active-e-bike-systems-compared) that claims that STePS 6000 is

70% assist on low
150% assist on medium
230% assist on high

 

[Mass Deduction]

Sorry, I can’t answer your question, but a search on the EMTB forum probably can.....at least in regards to the E8000, since it’s very popular with e mountain bikes. My Felt commuter bike has the 8000 and I absolutely love it. Very smooth, responsive and powerful. I have ridden several bikes with Bosch, as well as a couple with Brose. They all have their pluses and minuses, but the Shimano system is my overall favorite!

Can you comment at all on the range you're getting on each mode of assist on your 8000, and under what conditions you're getting it? What commuter bike is it? Thanks for the reply!

 

[e-boy]

Sorry, I can’t answer your question, but a search on the EMTB forum probably can.....at least in regards to the E8000, since it’s very popular with e mountain bikes. My Felt commuter bike has the 8000 and I absolutely love it. Very smooth, responsive and powerful. I have ridden several bikes with Bosch, as well as a couple with Brose. They all have their pluses and minuses, but the Shimano system is my overall favorite!

What makes it your favorite ?

 

[McCorby]

I have a Felt Sport E-50. Unfortunately, my rides are typically less than 25 miles and I try to keep my battery charge between 60% and 85%, so I can’t give you an accurate range estimate. I live in Wisconsin, so the terrain varies between flat and moderately hilly. With that said, when the battery is around 80%, the computer indicates 50 to 60 miles range in Eco, and around 30 to 40 in Trail. I rarely have to use Boost and only for the toughest hills. In boost the indicated range at 80% charge is around 25 miles if I remember correctly. Boost provides a “crazy” amount of assist!!.....probably intended more for mountain biking than for the road! Hope that helps!

Edit: These range estimates are with Shimano's 504W/hr battery and a bike that weighs less than 45 lbs.

 

[McCorby]

What makes it your favorite ?

Of the mid-drives I’ve ridden, to me it has the most natural feel/power delivery. The tuning/calibration of the Trail mode is spot on.....power output is very reactive and proportional to pedal effort. It provides a very wide range of assist depending on the bikes speed and your pedal effort. You can literally just leave it in Trail mode and forget about it. I like not needing to have to switch between 2 or 3 modes depending on road conditions. To be fair, I haven’t ridden the newer Bosch systems with their MTB assist mode. Hope to soon though. My understanding is that it is similar to Shimano’s Trail mode.

 

[Mass Deduction]

I have a Felt Sport E-50. Unfortunately, my rides are typically less than 25 miles and I try to keep my battery charge between 60% and 85%, so I can’t give you an accurate range estimate. I live in Wisconsin, so the terrain varies between flat and moderately hilly. With that said, when the battery is around 80%, the computer indicates 50 to 60 miles range in Eco, and around 30 to 40 in Trail. I rarely have to use Boost and only for the toughest hills. In boost the indicated range at 80% charge is around 25 miles if I remember correctly. Boost provides a “crazy” amount of assist!!.....probably intended more for mountain biking than for the road! Hope that helps!

Edit: These range estimates are with Shimano's 504W/hr battery and a bike that weighs less than 45 lbs.

In my experience with the Felt Sport-E, it understates range because the E8000 estimates range presuming it's a mountain bike doing lots of vertical climbing (it presumes vertical metres in boost, 600m in Trail, and 800m in Eco).

I also intend to charge it up to about the 75% range (and not drop it below 25%) with typical usage, so that's actually very valuable feedback, thank you!

Oh, with regard to how powerful Boost is, download Shimano's E-Tube Project App and you can tune the levels of assist. You could make Boost less powerful for example. Might be useful to you if you find Boost too powerful to ever be useful!

 

[McCorby]

In my experience with the Felt Sport-E, it understates range because the E8000 estimates range presuming it's a mountain bike doing lots of vertical climbing (it presumes vertical metres in boost, 600m in Trail, and 800m in Eco).

I also intend to charge it up to about the 75% range (and not drop it below 25%) with typical usage, so that's actually very valuable feedback, thank you!

Oh, with regard to how powerful Boost is, download Shimano's E-Tube Project App and you can tune the levels of assist. You could make Boost less powerful for example. Might be useful to you if you find Boost too powerful to ever be useful!

Also, note that my estimates are based on when the battery is at a 80% charge. Those numbers will notably increase with the battery at 100%. The couple times the battery was charged to 100%, I believe the calculated range after riding a few miles was closer to 80 miles in eco.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

tie-breaker for me between E8000 power/tuning vs. E6100 price. I'm wondering if E6100 is more efficient because it's a year newer than E8000, or is E8000 more efficient because it's higher end, or if it's a wash.

Shimano released their E6000 many years ago and it worked well but when used on cargo bikes, they found that it had some over-heating issues and did not deliver the performance they intended.
Using that experience and knowledge, they released E6100 last year with the updated firmware.
It brings some of the design elements of E8000 but retains the efficiency of E6000.

E8000 was designed was designed for MTBs with low Q-factor and weight, which was revolutionary at that time when most other motors like Bosch, Brose had large Q-factor, bulky and weighed more.
Since then both Bosch and Brose have released lighter, better motors. E8000 is a fantastic motor but the power curve is much more aggressive (as demanded by eMTBs).

Recently, I tried the Shimano E7000 and was pleasantly surprised. It has excellent efficiency and decent power needed to get to 32km/hr or 20mph. A good blend of both E8xxx series and E61xx series.

 

[Feliz]

In my experience with the Felt Sport-E, it understates range because the E8000 estimates range presuming it's a mountain bike doing lots of vertical climbing (it presumes vertical metres in boost, 600m in Trail, and 800m in Eco).

I also intend to charge it up to about the 75% range (and not drop it below 25%) with typical usage, so that's actually very valuable feedback, thank you!

Oh, with regard to how powerful Boost is, download Shimano's E-Tube Project App and you can tune the levels of assist. You could make Boost less powerful for example. Might be useful to you if you find Boost too powerful to ever be useful!

Do you sell Felt bikes?

 

[Mass Deduction]

Do you sell Felt bikes?

We started selling Felt bikes this year, yes.

 

[Feliz]

We started selling Felt bikes this year, yes.

What do you think of the Felt Sport E50 and do you have one?

 

[Mass Deduction]

What do you think of the Felt Sport E50 and do you have one?

I'm a fan of that bike. Shimano's top-end motor with their largest capacity battery is always a good starting point! Highly tunable if you're into that sort of thing. Rated to be 42.5 pounds, though when we weighed one it actually came in at 45 pounds (we weighed the 55cm size). Suspension fork with lock-out, which is good or bad depending on where/how you're going to use it. Good wheels, tires, brakes, and gears, so this is not a bike where all the money went into the motor and rear derailleur and everything else sucks; the component spec is very well balanced, and higher-end than you might expect. Amazing bike, actually. That bike was our #1 reason for signing on with felt, actually.

 

[Feliz]

I'm a fan of that bike. Shimano's top-end motor with their largest capacity battery is always a good starting point! Highly tunable if you're into that sort of thing. Rated to be 42.5 pounds, though when we weighed one it actually came in at 45 pounds (we weighed the 55cm size). Suspension fork with lock-out, which is good or bad depending on where/how you're going to use it. Good wheels, tires, brakes, and gears, so this is not a bike where all the money went into the motor and rear derailleur and everything else sucks; the component spec is very well balanced, and higher-end than you might expect. Amazing bike, actually. That bike was our #1 reason for signing on with felt, actually.

Okay, that's great! I'll be in touch with you. Thanks.

 

[Feliz]

I'm a fan of that bike. Shimano's top-end motor with their largest capacity battery is always a good starting point! Highly tunable if you're into that sort of thing. Rated to be 42.5 pounds, though when we weighed one it actually came in at 45 pounds (we weighed the 55cm size). Suspension fork with lock-out, which is good or bad depending on where/how you're going to use it. Good wheels, tires, brakes, and gears, so this is not a bike where all the money went into the motor and rear derailleur and everything else sucks; the component spec is very well balanced, and higher-end than you might expect. Amazing bike, actually. That bike was our #1 reason for signing on with felt, actually.

Right, I think every manufacturer uses the weight of the small frame when listing bike specs, why wouldn't they? Even 45 pounds is light for an ebike, my two mountain bikes weigh 52 pounds and my other eBikes are all over 60.
I would need a 55cm frame, do you have one in stock? You're in Victoria right?

 

[Mass Deduction]

Right, I think every manufacturer uses the weight of the small frame when listing bike specs, why wouldn't they? Even 45 pounds is light for an ebike, my two mountain bikes weigh 52 pounds and my other eBikes are all over 60.
I would need a 55cm frame, do you have one in stock? You're in Victoria right?

Yeah, totally. If they don't use the small, then they use the medium. I think Opus Bikes use the medium, for example. I agree that 45 pounds for an e-bike with a suspension fork is pretty dang good. But that's Felt for you, they're focused on being fast.

Over 60 pounds? Yikes. All my e-bikes are in the 41-49 pounds range. I'm trying to think of anything I own that weighs over 60 pounds that isn't a piece of furniture! (No, I don't own a car.)

I'll reply to the rest privately.