Output Specialized e-bike power/cadence to Apple Watch via Bluetooth

[CMR15]

I was excited when Apple indicated that the new watch iOS is capable of connecting to Bluetooth sensors, including power and cadence. I have a Creo which connects to the Mission Control app without issue. I believe that connection is through Bluetooth, not Ant+. If so, Bluetooth on my Creo is functioning.

Unfortunately, I can’t figure out how to connect the Creo power meter to the Apple Watch. When I go to settings/Bluetooth in the watch, no bike sensors appear. I’d love to be able to use my Watch/iPhone as my primary bike computer. Does anyone know if this is possible? And how to make the connection?

Thanks, Craig

 

[BEC111]

I’m in the same situation, though I’ve only tried to connect once. So far. I will be trying again but first I need to have my drivetrain shifting taken care of. (I have another thread on that topic.)

If I figure it out, I’ll share. If someone else figures it out and shares, thanks.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Buy an ANT+ compatible device. Yes, Specialized e-bikes use Bluetooth but the channel can only be used by Mission Control or Specialized App as the BT is encrypted.

No issues with ANT+ but the Apple Watch has no ANT+.

 

[BEC111]

Buy an ANT+ compatible device. Yes, Specialized e-bikes use Bluetooth but the channel can only be used by Mission Control or Specialized App as the BT is encrypted.

No issues with ANT+ but the Apple Watch has no ANT+.

Thanks Stefan. That’s along the lines I was thinking.

Specialized is starting to realize that their e-bikes, like cars, are actually computers with wheels. Maybe they’ll update the software so we can do this someday. Somehow I doubt it. They’re as arrogant as Apple.

 

[gpburdell]

Unfortunately, I can’t figure out how to connect the Creo power meter to the Apple Watch. When I go to settings/Bluetooth in the watch, no bike sensors appear.

Creo doesn’t provide BLE sensor profile apparently, though it does connect to the Specialized app via Bluetooth.

Contrast to my analog road bike, both the Duotrap S speed/cadence and 4iiii power meter sensors connected to my watch over BLE.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Specialized is starting to realize that their e-bikes, like cars, are actually computers with wheels. Maybe they’ll update the software so we can do this someday. Somehow I doubt it. They’re as arrogant as Apple.

No It is Apple that is as arrogant as Apple Apple does not want the ANT+ in their sports devices, and that's the whole point.
It is Bosch that is as arrogant as Apple because Bosch wants to be Bosch-centric and will not have ANT+.

ANT+ is the lingua franca of sports devices. Specialized, Giant, now I hear Fazua and TQ and Mahle are supporting ANT+, that's why you can use Garmin or Wahoo or Hammerhead with any e-bike equipped with ANT+. Actually, I use the same Wahoo ELEMNT Roam computer on either on my Specialized e-bikes; I could connect my Wahoo to a Tero X on my demo ride without even knowing the PIN! I could have connected my Wahoo to a demo Creo had I known it was possible. The Wahoo is my only display for the Vado SL.

One of the reason for Specialized to encrypt the Bluetooth channel on newer e-bikes was to prevent bad people meddling with the speed restrictor via Bluetooth.

 

[mschwett]

I’m in the same situation, though I’ve only tried to connect once. So far. I will be trying again but first I need to have my drivetrain shifting taken care of. (I have another thread on that topic.)

If I figure it out, I’ll share. If someone else figures it out and shares, thanks.

the only straightforward way to do this (and it’s not all that straightforward LOL) is with an ANT to BLE bridge like the 4iiii viiiiiiva HRM, or the very oddly named NPE “cable.” I’ve used both, they work, but can be a little fussy depending on the particular combination of devices.

another alternative to mission control and bike computers, tested...

please, no debate here on phones vs. bike computers, which seems to be right up there with "tubeless vs tubed," "steel vs carbon," and all the other hot-button religious fervor debates in the cycling world! this thread is not about the pros and cons of one or the other, rather a different way to...

forums.electricbikereview.com

hopefully in the future specialized will support standard bluetooth profiles for power and cadence, but don’t hold your breath! only a few e-bike makers do so far, which is very different from the analog bike world where almost every device is now dual ANT and BLE.

 

[BEC111]

Apple does not want the ANT+ in their sports devices, and that's the whole point.

I hadn’t thought of that. Technically, Apple doesn’t make sports devices. They consider the watch a health device.

Of course, you can’t have one without the other.

FWIW, when Apple first announced the ability to sync with bicycle sensors, I didn’t expect it to work with my Vado SL. Initially.

I fantasized that Apple would recognize ebike sensors for its health apps. Afterall, Strava through my watch appears to do so.

For my purposes, it doesn’t really matter. I use cadence while riding to help visualize shift points and for cardio indicators. (75-85 rpm for bike efficiency, 90-110+ for my heart) It’s how I used to identify when to shift when my car was manual. I use Strava to compare my rides. I enjoy when I set a PR for a segment, but its not a goal. My main interest is tracking heart beats for cardio health. The rest of the stats are just fun.

 

[mschwett]

I hadn’t thought of that. Technically, Apple doesn’t make sports devices. They consider the watch a health device.

Of course, you can’t have one without the other.

FWIW, when Apple first announced the ability to sync with bicycle sensors…

i think far more likely than ANT+ radios getting added to mainstream devices like watches and phones (there were a few phones with ANT+) is e bike makers embracing the standard protocols, which will probably require some sort of dual BLE connection - one for the standard data, another for control.

the tide may have finally turned away from ANT+ in the cycling world, in large part thanks to zwift, but also because smartphones and smartwatches are so ubiquitous.

Bluetooth, I apologize

Why I've changed my mind in the Bluetooth vs. ANT+ debate

www.bikeradar.com

Apple Watch Power Meter Support: Everything You Ever Wanted to Know

Last month at Apple’s annual developer conference the company outlined the future of Apple Watch, at least in terms of software, for the next year. One item that seemed to surprise many was the announcement that Apple would be adding

www.dcrainmaker.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Bluetooth, I apologize

Why I've changed my mind in the Bluetooth vs. ANT+ debate

www.bikeradar.com

It was six years ago.
No advanced cyclist would use the phone on their handlebars: too big and too aero unfriendly for a road e-bike, too vulnerable to any off-road use, and the battery charge is unsuitable for any long activity. A smartphone is also not suitable for adverse atmospheric conditions such as raining.

You put the same Wahoo on a Kickr (the indoor trainer) and on your regular bike... Does Zwift make anything for bicycles?

 

[mschwett]

It was six years ago.
No advanced cyclist would use the phone on their handlebars: too big and too aero unfriendly for a road e-bike, too vulnerable to any off-road use, and the battery charge is unsuitable for any long activity. A smartphone is also not suitable for adverse atmospheric conditions such as raining.

You put the same Wahoo on a Kickr (the indoor trainer) and on your regular bike... Does Zwift make anything for bicycles?

zwift is incredibly popular for indoor cycling - and it does not work with ANT+ devices without an adapter. many, many, many road cyclists use it for winter riding, and this has led to bluetooth being used extensively on the bike outdoors as well, virtually all bike computers support bluetooth for a reason, not just because the manufacturers felt like spending money to add another radio. virtually ALL serious cycling hardware (expensive power meters, heart rate monitors, etc) support bluetooth. the days of ANT+ only are long since over. ray’s article (dcrainmaker) is a current one and he is probably the world’s leading authority on bike electronics.

as for “no advanced cyclist…” we will simply have to beg to differ there - as you know i use a smartphone exclusively for all my rides (as do many others) which are as “advanced” as what most do on their bikes. your examples are important for some but the are also edge cases - most rides are less than 6 hours, most people ride in moderate weather, and most people don’t crash their bikes often enough to destroy a phone.

 

[CMR15]

Thanks, I greatly appreciate everyone’s reply. It’s unfortunate that the Bluetooth output from the Creo is encrypted. I was hoping to get rid of my wahoo ROAM and just use my iPhone. I guess I’ll have to determine how important power statistics are to me.

 

[mschwett]

Thanks, I greatly appreciate everyone’s reply. It’s unfortunate that the Bluetooth output from the Creo is encrypted. I was hoping to get rid of my wahoo ROAM and just use my iPhone. I guess I’ll have to determine how important power statistics are to me.

yeah, it’s an unfortunate conundrum! i standardized across my three bikes on phone only. native app for the commuter (not for ride logging but for the integrated lock and mode changes), mission control or cadence (iphone app)+ ANT bridge on the creo, and cadence (iphone app) on my s-works aethos - which like every new high end road bike outputs cadence and power and other things via a standard bluetooth protocol.

unfortunately i doubt the situation will change soon, so the roam may be your best bet unless you like the bridge solution.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

ray’s article (dcrainmaker) is a current one and he is probably the world’s leading authority on bike electronics.

The authority who still could not find out how the SL Range Extender worked? You mean the man who built a small android phone and called it "a bike GPS computer"? Please It is Garmin and Wahoo that set the trends.

as for “no advanced cyclist…” we will simply have to beg to differ there - as you know i use a smartphone exclusively for all my rides (as do many others) which are as “advanced” as what most do on their bikes. your examples are important for some but the are also edge cases - most rides are less than 6 hours, most people ride in moderate weather, and most people don’t crash their bikes often enough to destroy a phone.

You, Mark:

• Do not ride in the competing peloton
• Do not ride off-road
• Your rides are typically up to 4 hours 30 minutes: well within the battery capacity of iPhone
• "It never rains in the Southern California"

Am I very wrong?

I was hoping to get rid of my wahoo ROAM and just use my iPhone.

To what end?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Zwift:

• You do not take Zwift for an outdoor ride
• You are not worried about the bike-trainer aerodynamics or weight
• You do not ride your bike-trainer off road, and the trainer will never crash to the side
• In case you work on the bike-trainer for, say, 10 hours, you can always connect your iPhone to the charger
• It never rains indoors

I rotate the Wahoo between my two Specialized e-bikes. Had I still owned the Giant Trance E+, I would use the Wahoo as the only display for that e-MTB, too. I can connect the Wahoo to any ANT+ compatible e-bike without asking anybody. Do that with Bluetooth... Which is always proprietary. For one, Bluetooth will ask you for PIN, which you do not have on a demo e-bike.

 

[mschwett]

The authority who still could not find out how the SL Range Extender worked? You mean the man who built a small android phone and called it "a bike GPS computer"? Please It is Garmin and Wahoo that set the trends.

You, Mark:

• Do not ride in the competing peloton
• Do not ride off-road
• Your rides are typically up to 4 hours 30 minutes: well within the battery capacity of iPhone
• "It never rains in the Southern California"

Am I very wrong?


To what end?

you, stefan, are making irrelevant or inappropriate points. shall i assume from your points that bike computers are only for those who ride in the “competing” peloton? you won’t need one either then, as i’m pretty sure a vado would not be allowed in the tour. i ride off road from time to time, but prefer roads. i’ve done 6-8 hour rides, and battery life has not been a problem. are you suggesting that the typical EBR forum member rides for longer the 6-8 hours? it’s the definition of an edge case.

if i took your approach to this topic, i could simply say, you, stefan, ride a bike with a motor and huge battery, which makes the size, weight, drag and power statistics provided by a bike computer thoroughly irrelevant. but i wouldn’t say that because i recognize that different riders have different interests and priorities, for which different equipment is well suited.

and i don’t live in southern california any more than you live in hungary

 

[Stefan Mikes]

and i don’t live in southern california any more than you live in hungary

First of all, I apologise greatly for making this mistake again. I should bang my head against the wall repeating 'SoCal - Los Angeles!' over and over until I have memorized it

Now, let us go back to the Apple Watch as a bike GPS computer. Really? There is a single class of bicycle riders who would use a sports watch in the role: MTBers. They need to keep their cockpit clean. They do crash. They even need GPS navigation. There are plethora of ANT+ sports watches (that are GPS navigation devices, too), and it really does not need to be an Apple Watch. The fact the Apple Watch connects to indoor bike trainers and power pedals does not need change the fact the Apple Watch is not a bike GPS computer, especially for e-bikes.

I had a pleasure to ride gravel with a fine man of my group age, a marathon runner in the first place. When me met for the first time, he was successfully using a Garmin watch for GPS navigation and ride recording. When we met again, he already had a Garmin Edge computer on his gravel bike stem as he realised the sports watch was not the way to go

You have mentioned DC Rainmaker, Hammerhead, Karoo2. How does Karoo 2 connect to e-bikes? By Bluetooth maybe?

The smartphone on the bars is an option for many e-bikers. I had been using (and damaged) several smartphones on my e-bike for 2 years before I discovered a smartphone was not the best tool for an "adventure cyclist" as I am (not necessarily a "gravel cyclist" to be clear):

• The smartphone is too energy hungry. You do not need to pedal for a day. It is enough your trip takes from early morning to the evening. There are many things a rider can do on a daily trip, such as taking rest, picnicking, visiting restaurant and cafes, sight-seeing, or even visiting the family. A smartphone in the role of a bike GPS computer runs the GPS navigation all the time, it is monitoring the e-bike and so on. Five or six hours pass and now you are in a situation you cannot use your phone for things such as doing payments unless you connect the phone to a powerbank (yet another item to be regularly recharged and carried). While a Wahoo battery will last for 17 hours.
• A smartphone is susceptible to raining and it is hard to operate it in gloves. Rain droplets will make your phone go bananas; frost will limit the selection of gloves you could use on a touchscreen device. (Wahoo is operated by large buttons, and Garmin can be manipulated by a handlebar remote). FYI: Hungary gets rainfall and heavy winters same as Poland does (The Hungary climate is even more continental than the one for Poland).
• Vulnerability of a smartphone to road vibration and crashes. If the crash is a rare thing, why do you ever wear a helmet? (Or, don't you?) Now, your expensive iPhone might be sent flying. How do you make your Apple Pay payment afterwards?
• A smartphone takes a lot of real estate from the bars. Not the fact?

I would have never invested in Wahoo ELEMNT computers if I were happy with smartphones on handlebars of my e-bikes. That's why I asked @CMR15 for a reason of replacing his Wahoo Roam with a smartphone.

Now, a Levo or a Creo (or other SL e-bikes) have no display (unless it is Mastermind TCU). Yes, you can still use a smartphone with Mission Control or Specialized App on your bars. You cannot use the Apple Watch though (unless you have used complicated data bridges). To what end a cyclist should wear an Apple Watch on their rides? Just because they own it? The wrong tool for the purpose, that's it.

Wearing an Apple Watch on an e-bike ride makes as much sense as me wearing a regular wristwatch: It is to look good

 

[mschwett]

i’ve tried using an apple watch as a bike computer - it does not work for me, at all. not even remotely workable. you can’t see it, the screen is way too small even if you could, touching the screen is a dangerous exercise, etc. on a road bike it’s virtually impossible, IMO. i think the only use case is turning it on to collect data and never touching it again.

the issue and problem with bluetooth is an e-bike issue, caused by the need to control the bike over the same connection. it is not an issue for the vast majority of serious cyclists and cycling computer users, who don’t ride e-bikes. it will be interesting to see if or when any of the mainstream e-bike makers address it, as it’s somewhat ironic that a modern unpowered road, gravel, or mtb has better connectivity than a top of the line e-bike

 

[Stefan Mikes]

it will be interesting to see if or when any of the mainstream e-bike makers address it, as it’s somewhat ironic that a modern unpowered road, gravel, or mtb has better connectivity than a top of the line e-bike

Only you pay US$800-1,000+ for an analog bike power meter while your Specialized e-bike has the power meter included

I wonder what the Bosch Smart System connectivity looks like.

 

[mschwett]

Only you pay US$800-1,000+ for an analog bike power meter while your Specialized e-bike has the power meter included

I wonder what the Bosch Smart System connectivity looks like.

nah.

spider based power meters are <$400

one sided crank <$300

pedal based starting around $500.

unfortunately the specialized power meter type isn’t really as accurate as the analog bike types, but i do think it’s really cool that it’s built into every specialized e bike