One more time I'm going to explain the HR727 ebike definition

[Ken M]

A joke that we will never impact. Get ready it's happening Like it or not. Personally I care less. under 20 with a throttle works for me.

I was just talking with a guy that purchased a $10,000+ Reise and Mueller ebike and he said his class 3 sticker fell off in 3 weeks. He said he just rides it everywhere bikes are allowed and was on a 3,4000 mile trip across the country to raise money for a cause. The class system is not working by any measure of common sense or enforcement.

Funny you say you care less, but added that under 20mph with a throttle works for you. That is not caring less because you just ruled out any assist past 20mph as being acceptable.

 

[tomjasz]

I was just talking with a guy that purchased a $10,000+ Reise and Mueller ebike and he said his class 3 sticker fell off in 3 weeks. He said he just rides it everywhere bikes are allowed and was on a 3,4000 mile trip across the country to raise money for a cause. The class system is not working by any measure of common sense or enforcement.

Funny you say you care less, but added that under 20mph with a throttle works for you. That is not caring less because you just ruled out any assist past 20mph as being acceptable.

I come from the kit world where people are building electric motorcycles with pedals. They will bring the house of cards down.

 

[Ken M]

I come from the kit world where people are building electric motorcycles with pedals. They will bring the house of cards down.

Those are NOT legal / compliant LSEBs per HR727 (those breaking the law should not impact what is good legislation). It could be argued they are compliant to the Class 3 definition since there is not power limit stated above 20mph so long as the rider is pedaling. I know some claim there is no power limit above 20mph in HR727 but that wrong - the constraints of 20mph with 170lb rider on level surface establishes a power limit above 20mph regardless of the assist technology utilized (that is in the range of 300-350W depending on ebike type and efficiency). That ensures ebikes are not really any faster than regular bikes when any consideration is made for how much a downhill grade helps all bikes. People seem to ignore that power is effectively what has always controlled the top speed of bikes, or any vehicle for that matter, so it's a much better way to ensure ebikes are not too fast without the brain-dead assist limits called out by the 3-class state legislation. Why did HR727 pass just one vote short of full congressional consensus if an LSEB as a bike was not considered acceptable by state representatives. Sadly 12+ years later People for Bikes decided to mess with it by pushing what was mainly EU harmonization legislation that was poorly conceived.

People for Bikes should be willing to discuss on an open forum the legislation they promoted.

 

[Nutella]

There have always been some accidents between cyclists and pedestrians but most of the time it's the pedestrians' fault for not paying attention.

Proof?

IME, whoever is moving faster is legally obligated to avoid the slower, no matter if they're idiots. The only time I see this reversed is in car vs bike collisions where the bike rider is always the loser and drivers get a slap on the wrist at most.

 

[Ken M]

Proof?

IME, whoever is moving faster is legally obligated to avoid the slower, no matter if they're idiots. The only time I see this reversed is in car vs bike collisions where the bike rider is always the loser and drivers get a slap on the wrist at most.

I rode an ebike over 6,000 miles one year and the few times I had any close call with a pedestrian it was because they were not paying attention. I never hit them as like you said it was my responsibility to avoid them but I would ring a bell they didn't hear (some had head phones on) and it a couple cases they literally heard the bell and decided to intentionally try to block me path right with one telling me that bikes didn't belong on the sidewalk even though legal on that sidewalk. I even had one pedestrian that was walking toward me and intentionally went to the side I moved to to force me to stop which I did a few feet in front of him. I just said are you happy behaving like a jerk...he was strange as he was going to stop me or get hit. We will never fix all the stupid in the world but I do believe 99% of bikers ride safely.

Bike lanes for bikers are dangerous because like you said the biker is always the loser. I'm always shocked to see how many bikes do not have rear view mirrors and yet riding in road side bike lanes. I had a mirror and probably looked back as much as I did forward to make sure I wasn't going to be hit. A few times I could see a car kind of nudging the line and I would literally abandoned the bike lane.

 

[tomjasz]

People for Bikes

OK, I'm done here. I support People for Bikes with quarterly donations.
UNWATCHED

 

[Ken M]

OK, I'm done here. I support People for Bikes with quarterly donations.
UNWATCHED

Did I say anything about People for Bikes in this thread?

I can only suggest that you ask People for Bikes to comment on HR727 and their 3-class legislation to get a feel if there efforts were pro-bike or pro-auto. I'm suggesting you be the judge but they should be willing to discuss this ... right?

 

[Arthritic Old Man]

Where is the consideration for people with disabilities who can’t drive a automobile. All of those bicycle groups enjoy recreational riding. People with disabilities and weight issues a 250 watts on a big climb could be unsafe.
250 watts on a tandem with a blind stoker is totally different then the 170 young person.
So when do we include people with disabilities and include the ADA in transportation using adaptive mobility devices trikes and so on

 

[tomjasz]

Where is the consideration for people with disabilities who can’t drive a automobile. All of those bicycle groups enjoy recreational riding. People with disabilities and weight issues a 250 watts on a big climb could be unsafe.
250 watts on a tandem with a blind stoker is totally different then the 170 young person.
So when do we include people with disabilities and include the ADA in transportation using adaptive mobility devices trikes and so on

I had a 250W mid-drive and weigh 250lbs. It climbed like a champ 32T x 42T

 

[Arthritic Old Man]

That’s great for you. But if you have some disabilities like being unable to see then your captain might also be heavy. My bike is 500 pounds with the both of us. 250 doesn’t work starting on a hill.

 

[tomjasz]

unable to see

At which point I’m a danger to myself and others.

500lbs is hardly a norm. But sure that would preclude most frames and require a BBSHD or equivalent.

 

[PedalUma]

This topic and this thread are like Zombies. They are dead but keep on coming. It is dead already! Do I have to make an anti-zombie bike?

 

[kevinmccune]

Brains, Brains! The current Zombie outbreak has been declared "Over"!( by the WHO) Seems like the Zombies and "Brainsuckers" starved out, (WHO wood've thunk it!)

 

[MacCrackin]

Seriously....Here's the thing...sadly the definition and use regulations of ebikes play a huge role in what we are able to purchase and use legally. I understand no one wants the "techy" information on what the definition in HR727 means but if they give a crap about the future adoption rate of ebikes maybe some will pay enough attention to ensure we strive for the most effective regulations possible and not support poorly conceived "use" regulations like the 3-class legislation.

I have read the responses that I'm just a nut pushing for crazy fast ebikes to be state "use" compliant as a bike which is so far from the truth is just nonsense. I am advocating that the federal definition of a LSEB as a bike guide the state "use" regulations as is still the case in many states and was working fine in many states that abandoned it because lobby money pushed the 3-class legislation with the false claims is was about clarity and safe "use."

I'll Just have to assume HR727 is some one sided political parties agenda and likely advocate
the New O'Biden green new deal even with no active angry electrons applied.
I have not got around to creating a model of E Bike yet - but one things for sure,
I'm doing the design my way 110%, and if ever questioned by green agents,
it could alter their entire day.
Growing up a farmer all one's life - there's only one way, the right way.
Cheers

 

[MacCrackin]

This topic and this thread are like Zombies. They are dead but keep on coming. It is dead already! Do I have to make an anti-zombie bike?
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Truly Awesome - A game played on phone the last ten years has some of these options -
'Kill Shot'.
Cheers

 

[Ken M]

I'll Just have to assume HR727 is some one sided political parties agenda and likely advocate
the New O'Biden green new deal even with no active angry electrons applied.
I have not got around to creating a model of E Bike yet - but one things for sure,
I'm doing the design my way 110%, and if ever questioned by green agents,
it could alter their entire day.
Growing up a farmer all one's life - there's only one way, the right way.
Cheers

Just so you know HR727 passed one vote short of full congressional (house and senate) consensus.

There is one risk of not riding a non-compliant ebike on public infrastructure and that is if you hit and hurt someone you could be sued and loose a lot as it would be the equivalent of driving a non-compliant vehicle. Because of the confusion between HR727 and the 3-class state regulations I suggest taking advantage of what each allows to optimize your project ebike's performance.