Newbie DIY Build: Dengfu E06 M620. Hood River, Oregon.

[oregonsteelhead]

Hello all! I've been a lurker for awhile, I wanted to introduce myself and start posting my journey. I've been looking at ebike's for several years, mainly to use in the woods hunting. There are many areas where I hunt that can be accessed with ebikes, having a quiet & effective means of covering ground would be a game changer for me.

I started by looking at the hunting tailored off-the-shelf options (Bakcou, Rambo, etc.) but quickly realized that the cost was not justified, and that building my own would yield a higher quality bike. As an engineer by trade with a DIY mentality, I've spent many hours researching on this board as well as the eMTB forums, putting together a build list. My mountain biking experience is not near what most on this forum has, but I'm doing my best to educate myself. I will be using, and hopefully contributing, to this forum to build a quality, purpose built machine. I'm getting excited for this build and at this point, am still putting together my parts list.

I've been hugely inspired by a few individuals on this board, namely @Jon A, @Daxxie555 and @Haystacks. Fellas, your builds are outstanding! The thought and experience you all have put in to your builds is admirable! I'm hoping to take some of the lessons learned from your builds to build my own.

I've gone back and forth, between ordering the Economy Dengfu E06 and upgrading parts as time passes vs. ordering a E06 Frame and building from scratch. I've decided on the latter, even though the former would be easier, I'd like to take the opportunity to learn about each component and really tailor this build from the ground up. Secondly, one of the main reasons I am leaning towards the latter is, as far as I can tell, all the Bafang motors shipped by Dengfu are CAN Bus not UART. Programing these motors seems a necessity based on other's experiences. Rather than send the motor to Watt Wagons for the X1 upgrade (which at this point in time doesn't seem like a wise option), I'm leaning towards purchasing a UART M620 from greenbikekit from the start to gain full programmability.

My first order of business is to get the longer lead-time items ordered, the goal is to have this built and shook out before the Fall hunting season.

My parts list is still a work in progress, but I'll start with the frame and motor. If anyone has input on the below noted in blue, it would be greatly appreciated.

Frame & Battery
Dengfu E06 20" Frame
14aH Battery
Battery Case (Extra)

I am 95% certain that the Large (20") version of the frame would be the best fit. I'm 6'1", 180lbs with a 33" Inseam. If anyone has any insight to this I would greatly appreciate any feedback.
Are any other parts that should be ordered directly from Dengfu for a build like this?

Motor & Motor Parts
Bafang Ultra M620 w/UART Protocol

EB-BUS 1T4 Cable

Speed Sensor

Shift Sensor

Plastic Cover

Alloy Hanger
Is this necessary?

Power Cable
What length?
Connector for Terminal A?
Connector for Terminal B?

Mounting Bolt Kit
Will this bolt kit work with Dengfu's frame? Is it universal?

Thumb Throttle
Left or Right Hand Option? Personal preference?

Thumb Throttle Extension Cable

Headlight and Taillight Cables

Thank you for taking the time to read this, my best to all!

-Oregonsteelhead

 

[JRA]

The most obvious thing I would suggest is a bigger battery. Like 21ah or planning on a dual system like Jon A has come up with.

And definitely go with an alloy derailleur hanger so it will fail before the frame, and hopefully the derailleur, if it comes to that. If you hear a stick in your back wheel, stop and clear it.

 

[oregonsteelhead]

The most obvious thing I would suggest is a bigger battery. Like 21ah or planning on a dual system like Jon A has come up with.

And definitely go with an alloy derailleur hanger so it will fail before the frame, and hopefully the derailleur, if it comes to that. If you hear a stick in your back wheel, stop and clear it.

Thanks @JRA. I certainly will be looking to up-size the battery, I'm planning on getting the factory 14ah just to get up and running. Ideally I'll build a larger capacity in-tube, or an external similar to Jon A's.

The Alloy Hanger I referenced in the first post was actually an alloy motor hanger. I realized that is not needed since the frame obviously has a cradle for the motor, I'll remove that from the first post.

I made note for the recommendation of an alloy derailleur hanger.

 

[TomD]

Agree with JRA, 14ah won't cut it on the Ultra. You might be able to get away with it on a M600 build.

I know you're looking at a CF frame, but have you seen Frey's kit for the AM1000 v6?

FREY AM1000 V6 frame kits

Includes frame, rear shock absorber, motor complete set, battery and charger Please note: freight is not included. Note: To returning customers and friend's referrals, please contact us for confirmation, FREY will provide discount codes, and you will enjoy the corresponding discount amount when...

shop.frey.bike

I think a FREY customer can get you a slight discount on that as well. Can help in that regard if you find it a compelling option.

Edit: seems if you can find a FREY customer that bought an older AM1000 you might get steeper discounts. See here:

Best Value off road Electric Mountain Bike | Frey Ebike

Frey electric bikes are known for superior performance and reliable quality, and for long range ebike and big power ebike. It is a famous brand & manufacturer of the best off road electric bike for adults. We produce affordable electric bikes and accept OEM. USA/Europe warehouses for fast delivery.

www.frey.bike

Loyal customers who have purchased the V3 or earlier version can enjoy a special offer price of 2022USD

 

[oregonsteelhead]

Agree with JRA, 14ah won't cut it on the Ultra. You might be able to get away with it on a M600 build.

I know you're looking at a CF frame, but have you seen Frey's kit for the AM1000 v6?

FREY AM1000 V6 frame kits

Includes frame, rear shock absorber, motor complete set, battery and charger Please note: freight is not included. Note: To returning customers and friend's referrals, please contact us for confirmation, FREY will provide discount codes, and you will enjoy the corresponding discount amount when...

shop.frey.bike

I think a FREY customer can get you a slight discount on that as well. Can help in that regard if you find it a compelling option.

Edit: seems if you can find a FREY customer that bought an older AM1000 you might get steeper discounts. See here:

Best Value off road Electric Mountain Bike | Frey Ebike

Frey electric bikes are known for superior performance and reliable quality, and for long range ebike and big power ebike. It is a famous brand & manufacturer of the best off road electric bike for adults. We produce affordable electric bikes and accept OEM. USA/Europe warehouses for fast delivery.

www.frey.bike

@TomD I actually hadn't seen those AM1000 v6 kits, thanks for the suggestion. A 21ah battery would be great and tough to achieve on the E06. I'm not opposed to an aluminum frame, it would help with rear rack mounting & trailer options. The main issue is I would like to run a 27.5x4" tire, it doesnt look like the AM1000 frame would accommodate that, perhaps I'm mistaken?

 

[TomD]

Ah yes, I think you're correct. I recall folks opting for a fat tire specific variant from FREY (I think one of those variants might have even been rebadged for Backou) vs. the older AM1000.

 

[oregonsteelhead]

What's your budget?
Are you completely sold on Dengfu frame? or are you willing to open up other options?
I too think that 48V 14Ah is a weaksauce for Ultra. It will be powered by Samsung 35E right?

@Timpo I would like to stay in the $5k neighborhood. I'm open to other options for a frame, the E06 is one of the only options I've found that meets my few criteria: M620 motor, can fit 27.5x4" tire, in-tube battery and full suspension. I'm all ears for other options though.

I'm not sure on the battery type, Dengfu's website only states "Lithium-ion Panasonic cell 48V 14Ah 672Wh".

 

[Mike_V]

Mr metal head,
Is it warm during hunting seasons on the Hood River?
Have you any real data on the performance of a 1/2 discharged battery left out in the cold all day then carry you & gear and a shooting iron while dragging a carcass?
Consider : Buying two batteries and keep one warm as if your life depended on it.

 

[oregonsteelhead]

Mr metal head,
Is it warm during hunting seasons on the Hood River?
Have you any real data on the performance of a 1/2 discharged battery left out in the cold all day then carry you & gear and a shooting iron while dragging a carcass?
Consider : Buying two batteries and keep one warm as if your life depended on it.

@Mike_V Temperatures in the fall are usually mild, some riding will be done in the winter where temps are in the low 30's but that is not the bike's main purpose.

I do plan to have a second battery on me for longer trips. I don't have expereince to rely on yet with regards to how much discharge to expect in the cold, but is certainly something I'll need to keep in mind and experiment with. Thanks for the advice!

 

[JRA]

I guess my question is that if you are mostly planning on using the bike in the fall in the central part of Oregon, or any part for that matter, that you are planning on using the 27.5 x 4" wheels? I know they are a thing but usually more for use in areas with lots of chunk that will take advantage of the larger diameter?

You will be limited in tire selection over the years as it seems to me that it hasn't gained much popularity, at least not as much as the 26 x 5" has which is just about the same diameter? Pretty much like how the 27.5 plus concept took off while the 29 plus didn't although it was the main impetus for it coming into being.

I have ridden in central OR a bunch on less than 3" tires with no regrets or thought I needed more flotation. Especially with full suspension added to the mix. I live on the coast and ride sand on the lesser sizes also, the e aspect is a good leveler.

 

[oregonsteelhead]

I guess my question is that if you are mostly planning on using the bike in the fall in the central part of Oregon, or any part for that matter, that you are planning on using the 27.5 x 4" wheels? I know they are a thing but usually more for use in areas with lots of chunk that will take advantage of the larger diameter?

You will be limited in tire selection over the years as it seems to me that it hasn't gained much popularity, at least not as much as the 26 x 5" has which is just about the same diameter? Pretty much like how the 27.5 plus concept took off while the 29 plus didn't although it was the main impetus for it coming into being.

I have ridden in central OR a bunch on less than 3" tires with no regrets or thought I needed more flotation. Especially with full suspension added to the mix. I live on the coast and ride sand on the lesser sizes also, the e aspect is a good leveler.

@JRA I appreciate the feedback. I'll use this bike in a wide variety of terrain, hunting different areas in ID, MT, WY, CO, AZ, etc. I'm sure I could do fine with a 3" tire but I really like the idea of increased stability and versatility, especially with heavy loads.

 

[JRA]

Still trying to figure out why you are fixated on the 27.5 x 4" tire though when the 26 x 4" or 5" would be just as stable and versatile and you would have a much larger selection of tires to choose from, especially if you get a torn sidewall and need to replace in a pinch?

BTW, I have personally ridden in all those states on 2.1 tires with no problems in rough terrain cause that is what mtb's are for. Not a big fan of the big tires as they just feel sluggish and the self steering issue is a turn off for me.

My last input is that the Frey AM is a good deal I think and an alu frame for your needs would be just fine. Plus it comes with all the battery you will probably need and not have to worry about additional one later when, not if, you decide you need it. However I am not sure who has UART M620's any more?

While building a bike is a good exercise in getting to know the bike getting a complete one and riding it is going to be cheaper in the long run even if you decide to do upgrades along the way. If you must take it all apart when you get it and put it back together and see how many parts you have left over? I'm out.....

 

[loamoaf]

On the sizing I think 20" should be good for you, depending on fork & wheels. I'm 6' with a 32" inseam barefoot, but for bikes I like a little more room to account for the tender bits. My 18" frame is just good for me but I'm running a Manitou Mastodon fork that's set up with 571mm axle-to-crown, which is 60mm more than the Bluto on the Professional trim E06 - I'm not sure of the height of the bottom headset the bike comes with, whether it's 10mm or 15mm so the actual difference on my end is more like 45-50mm. I'm also running a 190x50mm shock with a single 2mm offset bushing, though I have another offset bushing if I want to use it, and this snug-to-sack fit is with 29x3 Vittoria Cannolis. I think the reach is going to be an important part of the size too. You can always get a little longer stem but that will also affect handling a little - though longer to get the right fit would probably be preferable to shorter, I think.

I wouldn't get hung up on the 27.5 fat tires. I was recommended to go 27.5 by nearly as many who said to go 26, and part of that was the fact that I already have the 29+ wheelset and want what's going to be the best for snow. I think the most popular tires come in both sizes but there's definitely not as many available in 27.5, though the reason I was recommended that size was that they can be fairly versatile with up to 4.5" wide for snow with almost the same contact patch size as a 26x4.8" but were also suitable for smaller 3.6-3.8" tires while maintaining a little faster rolling feel that you lose with fat bikes. None of this is from first hand experience though as I'm still going nuts trying to find out where the heck my 26" Nexties are (tracking info shows it's not going as smoothly as last time).

Interesting to hear what others have said about battery size, I've currently got enough cells with the original intent to build a 14s3p 13.5Ah pack & a 14s5p 22.5Ah pack, but I think I'm instead going to do two 14s4p packs that can do 54A & be good for 695Wh @ 40A constant or 745Wh @ 20A constant to 44.8V - a user with a WW Crosstour & loaded panniers was averaging 17Wh/mi which according to the napkin math would get me 40~43 miles, granted I'm going to be riding trails with elevation as well as long lazy rails-to-trails hardpack, and at on point will be hauling a trailer with dog/gear. I'm trying to do this while preserving the space in the triangle for a frame bag for easily accessible goodies but I really like what I was seeing on Jon A's build. The 14s4p pack with 21700's will stick out less than 15mm from the frame so I'm not concerned about it. I've kind of had this last bit of my build on hold waiting for WW to deliver on a 6+ month old X1 only order but I think I'm just going to send in my shtuff to get printed. For the box of the battery I'm using Boltaron which is just a variation of Kydex that's more impact-resistance and less brittle at low temps.

I'm really curious if anyone has looked into thin film heating elements for winter battery packs. The cells I'm using have much lower self-heating under load than 40T's or 50E's and TempCo makes a few different types of thin elements (super thin kapton film, thin wire element in silicone pad, that come in off-the-shelf sizes perfect for a 52V pack were they to be zig-zagged through the inner set of cells and the pack had reasonable insulation. I haven't reached out to them but I know they can do a battery powered solution and offer thermostats that can be shipped hardwired to run at a specific temperature so no fuss or fiddling (say, you turn it on and it will always want to maintain 75°F). I guess this will kind of be a moot point as battery chemistries that handle wider temperature ranges become more widely available. I've only started to drive myself crazy trying to discern when the right time to buy an EV will be - I want something with more ground clearance sooner rather than later but don't want to be stuck with something that's obsolete in a few short years as the technology is just becoming more popular.

 

[jtran69]

oregonsteelhead,
If you are considering Dengfu E10 battery (2x) and M600 motor. I have them brand new shipping from San Jose, CA.
I'm using different motor and smaller battery pack for shorter ride.

 

[Robanco]

I did the Dengfu Build they sent the Canbus motor,SUCKS dangerous piece of s*it. They will do Nothing.