New spark City

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I think it is a good idea to give a 2 month follow up on this bike. Shortly after my last post, the torque sensor stopped working and I had no pedal assist. Rize Customer Service responded very promptly with excellent service but they hit a snag; the threads on the crank were stripped and they could not remove the crank to replace the torque sensor. It took 2 weeks for them to fix the problem by installing a new torque sensor. And the mysterious squeak I had before also disappeared. My bike was good as new thanks to excellent service by Rize. 2 days later, I heard the same squeak coming from the bottom bracket. I concluded that someone probably forgot to grease the bottom bracket when they installed the new torque sensor. Using the crank puller which Rize gave me, I decided to give it some grease. But I could not remove the crank because the threads were stripped. I told the story to Jay, the man who sold me the bike, and he spent a lot of time helping me troubleshoot the problem. Jay said the bottom bracket was well greased and he had removed the crank over again just to make sure the threads were intact after installing the torque sensor. So, It seems I should not have tried to lubricate the bottom bracket without talking to Jay first, but I believe my decision was logical based on information I had at the time. Anyway, I decided to live with the squeak since the bottom bracket was lubed and not in danger of bearing failure. The bottom bracket problem could be dealt with if it ever required servicing, which could be a long way off. The squeak was getting so loud that people were looking at me as I rode by. It was also irritating me to ride the bike with the increasingly loud squeak so I decided to stop riding, consider the bike a loss and put it in storage. About a week later, I had a quick trip to make so I took the bike for one short ride. The squeak had greatly diminished and disappeared completely within a couple of more rides. I was happy to have my bike again and started riding normally. About a week later, the squeak came back and, 2 days ago, the torque sensor failed and I had no pedal assistance any more. At this point, I am starting to think that I am too incompetent to own an e-bike and should consider another form of transportation. When it stops raining today I will take my bike to Jay at the warehouse and I am tempted to never come back for it.

That's so discouraging. I had a similar occurrence with my first stereo receiver purchase many years ago. Pioneer could not fix the problem ( loud clicking sound as the board warmed up) and it turned out to be in the whole line. Meanwhile it spent months in repairs coming back with new problems. Finally I got the store to take it back and sell me a Kenwood which worked great
That might be what I'd angle for... asking for a different bike if they can't fix it right- maybe a cheaper cadence sensor bike with an extra battery for a few bucks more.
It might be worthwhile to find out if it's a defect in the whole line. Don't give up. Work it out...I would be cautious of the torque sensor bikes after that experience. You're not incompetent.
My stereo store was a high end store in an expensive district but I bought their lowest priced stuff. The owner said what do I expect, that I bought junk. Really. He said that. That made it his fault and I got the exchange. He tried to full price me on the exchange item instead of sale price but it got worked out. As my first purchase of what at that time was expensive item for me, it was an eye opener.
They seem reasonable at Rize, though, so try to work it out! They may get tired of the bike too and be amenable to an exchange . Good luck Bill.

 

[BILL]

Thank you for your kind and encouraging words. I had a chance to speak with 3 other owners of the same bike and neither of them had any problems. It seems the problems are unique to my bike and Jay honestly seems interested in fixing the problem. But new problems keep popping up. I mentioned to him on the phone that I really don't want the bike anymore because it is a lemon and I asked him to consider selling me another new bike at a substantial discount. I still think that Rize sells amazing bikes and I don't believe my problems extend to their other bikes. Maybe Bafang Torque Sensors are prone to failure because of loose wiring as was the case in my first failure. I put on 2600 km. in 2 months; maybe this is more use than normal so nobody else has had the same problems yet. Maybe you are right about the cadence sensor being better. Maybe all torque sensors are prone to problems. But I could not get the larger battery and hydraulic brakes without the torque sensor as well. And everything I read said torque sensors were supposed to be better. I am looking forward to reading about other people's experience with them.

 

[Handlebars]

Thank you for your kind and encouraging words. I had a chance to speak with 3 other owners of the same bike and neither of them had any problems. It seems the problems are unique to my bike and Jay honestly seems interested in fixing the problem. But new problems keep popping up. I mentioned to him on the phone that I really don't want the bike anymore because it is a lemon and I asked him to consider selling me another new bike at a substantial discount. I still think that Rize sells amazing bikes and I don't believe my problems extend to their other bikes. Maybe Bafang Torque Sensors are prone to failure because of loose wiring as was the case in my first failure. I put om 2600 km. in 2 months; maybe this is more use than normal so nobody else has had the same problems yet. Maybe you are right about the cadence sensor being better. Maybe all torque sensors are prone to problems. But I could not get the larger battery and hydraulic brakes without the torque sensor as well. And everything I read said torque sensors were supposed to be better. I am looking forward to reading about other people's experience with them.

Another bike at a deep discount might be advantageous, having spare parts, even a spare bike. I wouldn't risk it, though, if they can't fix your bike's problem. What precisely is the source or cause of the squeak sound, for starters?

 

[BILL]

I phoned Rize this morning for an update on my bike and was told they ordered a new torque sensor and new controller which should be in by the end of the week. The man I spoke with thinks the first torque sensor was improperly installed at the factory and the internal wires were frayed. The cause of the second failure is unknown but the man I spoke with sounded confident and anxious to fix my bike. They definitely stand by their bikes but the wait for parts is frustrating when the weather is so good.

 

[BILL]

Phoned about my bike again today and was told Purolator was holding the parts in their warehouse for a few days so the Rize technician will go today to personally pick them up. Jay told me my bike will be fixed as soon as possible. I admire his dedication to customer service. I was originally wary of purchasing an e-bike online but the people at Rize have constantly proven themselves honest and reliable. I would not hesitate to do business with them again.

 

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Good stuff! With my 2019 cadence model, l'm getting into managing the gears/motor/PAS levels/brakes all the time now, looking to get the best mileage per charge. I'm waiting for your report on how you like the torque model once it's put right.

 

[BILL]

Good stuff! With my 2019 cadence model, l'm getting into managing the gears/motor/PAS levels/brakes all the time now, looking to get the best mileage per charge. I'm waiting for your report on how you like the torque model once it's put right.

I can report on that now based on 3000km I have ridden during the six weeks that my bike was running properly. You have probably noticed that you must pedal a half revolution or so before power kicks in with a cadence sensor. When that happens, it is all or nothing as if you were flipping a switch for the power. Granted, you can control it somewhat by adjusting the level of assist, but you still get all or nothing. With the torque sensor, you get an instant response when you apply pressure to the pedal and the push you get depends on how hard you push the pedal. So, a torque sensor feels much more natural as if you are in complete control. The amount of assist is still based on the assist level but you get double the control over it. The only down side to a torque sensor is that you have a tendency to engage the motor while resting your foot on the pedal when stopped. This can be prevented with slight pressure on either brake lever which cuts off the motor. At its best, a torque sensor can increase battery range by up to 50% because less energy is wasted powering the motor when you don't need full power. I find level 2 assistance gives me about 25% help which cancels out the weight of the bike and enables me to ride about 17km/hr. using very little energy. I have attained 175 km. of battery range at this level and have done it several times. Many people do not consider 17kph worthy of an e-bike because an average casual ride on an unassisted bike is already 16kph. But what's casual for a twentysomething is a much different story for this obese senior citizen. I need assistance for things now which I would have done quite easily 40 years ago on my own. With full pedal assistance and pedalling full speed most of the time, I still get 90km. of range and I weigh 210 pounds. Since torque sensors by themselves can add $150. to the cost of a bike, the Rize upgrade to hydraulic brakes, torque sensor and larger battery was a no brainer for me.

 

[BILL]

I HAVE MY BIKE BACK. It runs better than ever and I am very pleased with the service Rize gave me. There were actually 2 issues: one was the torque sensor failing and the other was the stripped threads on the crank which could have been caused by me. I admitted that I may be responsible for the stripped threads after they told me they had to cut the crank and put on a new one so Jay very generously split the cost with me. I believe in being responsible for my own actions so I consider Jay's solution to be very honourable. I fully expect a merchant to stand by a product but I do not expect a merchant to be liable for my mistakes. Thanks to Jay, I will definitely continue being a Rize customer. The issue of the squeak is still being investigated and Jay will inform me when he finds out.

 

[BILL]

I made a very interesting discovery which solves the mystery of the bottom bracket squeak and the repeated torque sensor failure. Since slime dries up with time, I decided to put in a tiny bit more into each wheel in preparation for a long ride tomorrow. When I finished sliming the front and put the valve core back in I noticed it did not go in all the way even though it was tight and I couldn't turn it any more. I started turning it in reverse but it just turned without moving out at all. I googled stuck valve cores and determined that I should replace the tube. But I discovered that nobody in my city has the proper tube in stock. So the bike is once more back in storage. But you can see from the photo that nobody would have suspected anything unless they turned the bike upside down. This is the way they sold me the bike without anybody suspecting that anything was wrong. I certainly don't blame Rize for not knowing about it, but now that they do, I expect them to compensate me. This is obviously not a warranty issue but some kind of fluke. I am going to ask them to replace the entire bike when I phone them on Monday and I will keep you informed.

 

[Handlebars]

Oh, that sure looks like a reason for trouble developing in there.
I hope they compensate you for your troubles and expense and lack of bike after you bought it.
And give you a new bike. What would be really good at least if it were for me, is a new bike and keep the faulty bike for parts.
On the issue of Slime...
I had some trouble with Slime in my tires...the pump valve blew apart because I used the pump without being careful...now I'm careful to try gently first, but the pump still gets stuck often, so I clear the inner tube valve. I repeatedly squirt water in it and then depress the needle to release some air, and it blows some Slime out. I try to find a way using wheel positioning so that the Slime will self-empty from the valve area when I intend to pump the tires up, but no luck on that so far. I now just clean it out every time.

 

[Handlebars]

I made a very interesting discovery which solves the mystery of the bottom bracket squeak and the repeated torque sensor failure. Since slime dries up with time, I decided to put in a tiny bit more into each wheel in preparation for a long ride tomorrow. When I finished sliming the front and put the valve core back in I noticed it did not go in all the way even though it was tight and I couldn't turn it any more. I started turning it in reverse but it just turned without moving out at all. I googled stuck valve cores and determined that I should replace the tube. But I discovered that nobody in my city has the proper tube in stock. So the bike is once more back in storage. But you can see from the photo that nobody would have suspected anything unless they turned the bike upside down. This is the way they sold me the bike without anybody suspecting that anything was wrong. I certainly don't blame Rize for not knowing about it, but now that they do, I expect them to compensate me. This is obviously not a warranty issue but some kind of fluke. I am going to ask them to replace the entire bike when I phone them on Monday and I will keep you informed. View attachment 55414

My bike is covered in tape in many areas. It was great for the winter and for battery and paint protection and preventing the heavy lock chains from making marks. After looking at your photo I just checked by feel and it sure feels like the disc is loose under the tape.
later...but on my bike there is no disc, no hole.
good to get that part cleaned up anyway.

 

[BILL]

Well, it is still Sunday and I found a Canadian Tire with the correct tube in stock. I installed it and am waiting for the battery to charge. It will be interesting to see whether the torque sensor will fail between now and tomorrow.

 

[BILL]

I have a response which I have copied and pasted:

Rize Bikes (Rize Bikes) Jun 16, 2020, 10:04 AM PDT Hello Bill, Thank you for those photos. I've spoken to my tech guy, and this is the email I got from him: "Jay, The hole at the bottom is not melted from the torque sensor. It is purposely there for maintenance and torque sensor installation. There's usually a rubber cover with an acrylic adhesive (black) to protect it from heavy weather elements. We have removed it twice, since we had to replace his torque sensor on two separate occasions. It must've came off during the ride home, because I know 100% I placed it back on, but that's no problem I have extras in the shop. The bike a ridable, I would recommend not riding in rough terrain or heavy rain, where chunks or dirt or rocks can enter through that hole. Again, the hole is meant to be there, you can check the bikes in your showroom and you'll see the other City has it as well."

 

[Handlebars]

Pretty cheesy feature. Why not a curved plate flap over it there? Maybe hinge and lock device. Snap on pry off cover. Screwed on cover. Not that.
And yours is the only one with the problems. And that's not what caused the problems. Uh huh.

 

[BILL]

So, it appears that the mystery has not been solved afterall.

 

[BILL]

Actually, it may be solved after all. They replaced the controller this time as well as the torque sensor. The torque sensor is just a strain gauge and very little can go wrong with it but the controller could be faulty in the way it interprets the signals. That is what could have caused the motor to cut out when I tried to pedal. Since the second repair, my bike runs better than ever before. I should let the technicians do their job and stop trying to second guess them.