New Rattan Models, the LM and LF Ebikes

I hope you're still around to talk to about this. I just got my bike last week. I got the Rattan LM-750. I'm happy to have the more powerful one. If that is actually what I have. There is a stamping of the part number or model number for the motor that concerns me. It shows the number as RATTAN48V50020CBBBB1. This concerns me as someone would think the wattage would be in the number somewhere and that it would show 48V750... or such. So I am concerned that they sent me a bike with a 500W motor instead of the 750 that I paid for. So how would I know? I searched these numbers on the Internet and came up with zip. As if they do not exist. The other number on it is Banx201000663S148. I couldn't even find a manufacturer for the motor. Banx search turns up nada.

Then I sent them a message asking to supply me with the part/model number for both the 500 and the 750 models. And I got "crickets" for a response. In other words I got no response at all. I'm hoping that perhaps since you have the 500 in your possession, you could possibly look at the motor on yours and tell me what yours shows. Other than this mystery, I am liking the bike and have lots of compliments on it thus far.
 
I have contacted the company and they assured me it is just a "product line number" and I they insisted I take my bike to any bike store and have the motor tested and it will "peak" over 1,000 Watts. (The problem there is, it will cost me money to have them take apart the bike and motor to test it. Do they rely on this fact, knowing I won't pay to go through with it?) They also informed me that if I was 26 x 4.0" tires on my bike, that pretty much means I have a 750W. They "only put 27.5 x 2.8" tires on 500W bikes.
The employee was helpful but something "Dana" said bothered me. I had an issue with the tires they put on the bike. They seemed to not have the "mountain bike" knobs on them pictured in the adds. The "CST" tires. They were more flat and plasic-like, and were made for pavement, so I inquired about them. "Dana" said: "The tire in the ad had run out at the time and a more expensive tire had to be used. We ship them all randomly and can only see which customer can receive the better quality of this tire." That sounds great, which means I got the "more expensive tire" but that means they 1. Ran out of tires. (Not the mark of a good company) 2. A bunch of customers got the lesser tire. - Maybe they are telling the truth, but my "bullshit" meter keeps going off. I don't know why.
I could take the pay to have the motor down and have it tested, which I'll have to pay for, or I could return it. A pain in the ass. This sucks. I went through 3 weeks of researching bikes and don't want to put up with this, but then I don't want to always wonder if my bike is the one I ordered.
Which bike did you purchase? I think they are trying to sell these bikes but had no idea of how fast the sales could take off. I too believe they are throwing a lot of BS at us and I think it is because they had no idea of what they were getting into. Now they are having trouble keeping up and are mixing and matching what they have in order to get the bikes to the buyers. The LM750 I got did not have the same brand tires shown in the ad either. Ad showed CST and I got something that doesn't have a bright white raised lettering, which I don't mind as it is less goofy looking without them. But unless you are well versed on Chinese tire brands, who's to say which is actually better?
I went in and tweaked the parameters on the controller interface a bit and now I am much more accurate on my speedometer as well as running over 31mph with it. So I believe I am a "Class 3 is it?". But I am not going to go and advertise that to the local authorities. Did you contact them via email or phone? Or was it through FB?
Lyndo
 
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Holy mackerel. What did you order and when did you get it? I had to wait over 6 weeks with the "it's stuck in customs" "likely" story. I got the LM750 and ordered it Dec30, 2020. Didin't get it until Feb 10. I just kept messaging the Amazon seller every 3 days. They started getting disgusted but I told them that it was in my best interest to stay on top of things and they were not going to stop hearing from me until the item was in my possession.
Mine came pretty well packed and in a very good condition. The packing was a lot of blown-in insulation like material. Some of that crud was stuck to the crank a little that is a bit difficult to remove and on a couple other places that came off pretty easy. But nothing was completely destroyed like you are describing. Good thing you had PayPal watching your back like that.
I would say that the bike is okay for a starter, but yes, they are quite horrible in a customer service sense. This is probably the only one I'd buy from them as I just want to see how I would like having one and upgrade to something much better rated later. But your situation sounds horrible. When did all this happen?
Foam was also stuck to the crank on mine. Tried to use several solvents from weak to strong and eventually acetone dissolved part of the plastic crank cover. I sent them a picture and they sent a new crank for replacement. In addition to that both mine and my wife's (ordered 2 bikes) came with a standard seat post without the suspension. And they replaced that too. So for me, their customer service was excellent.
 
Which bike did you purchase? I think they are trying to sell these bikes but had no idea of how fast the sales could take off. I too believe they are throwing a lot of BS at us and I think it is because they had no idea of what they were getting into. Now they are having trouble keeping up and are mixing and matching what they have in order to get the bikes to the buyers. The LM750 I got did not have the same brand tires shown in the ad either. Ad showed CST and I got something that doesn't have a bright white raised lettering, which I don't mind as it is less goofy looking without them. But unless you are well versed on Chinese tire brands, who's to say which is actually better?
I went in and tweaked the parameters on the controller interface a bit and now I am much more accurate on my speedometer as well as running over 31mph with it. So I believe I am a "Class 3 is it?". But I am not going to go and advertise that to the local authorities. Did you contact them via email or phone? Or was it through FB?
Lyndo
Did you tweak it to 50 kmh as the max speed?
 
Did you tweak it to 50 kmh as the max speed?
It seems not.
The parameters were there but it seems like they didn't "take". But then again, I was only going by what the speedometer on the bike was showing me. I can get my cop neighbor to clock me or use my gps on the phone to see what I might actually be getting. I WILL keep messing with it. What's the point of having the parameter in there if it does nothing? Right?
There is also a setting that it doesn't indicate in any manual, at least any I can find, that I don't know what it is for? From the main screen you hold + and the 'light" button and "AC" comes up with a zero or one setting for ACf. I gotta figure that one out too. Unless someone can tell me what it is...
Did you try GooGone on your crank? I was going to give that a try, but I don't want to screw it up.
I have trouble in contacting them. I don't know how you are managing it. I got my bike from a shop on Amazon. I simply inquired of the actual color of the green paint so I could get some touch up paint for it and I haven't heart squat from them about it. I have the powder coating department at my place of employment working on it for me.
Did you get a LM or LF 750 or did you guys get different models?
 
It seems not.
The parameters were there but it seems like they didn't "take". But then again, I was only going by what the speedometer on the bike was showing me. I can get my cop neighbor to clock me or use my gps on the phone to see what I might actually be getting. I WILL keep messing with it. What's the point of having the parameter in there if it does nothing? Right?
There is also a setting that it doesn't indicate in any manual, at least any I can find, that I don't know what it is for? From the main screen you hold + and the 'light" button and "AC" comes up with a zero or one setting for ACf. I gotta figure that one out too. Unless someone can tell me what it is...
Did you try GooGone on your crank? I was going to give that a try, but I don't want to screw it up.
I have trouble in contacting them. I don't know how you are managing it. I got my bike from a shop on Amazon. I simply inquired of the actual color of the green paint so I could get some touch up paint for it and I haven't heart squat from them about it. I have the powder coating department at my place of employment working on it for me.
Did you get a LM or LF 750 or did you guys get different models?
I bought both of them ( both LF750) from Rattanebike.com, so not sure if they are the same vendor as yours in Amazon. Bikes were shipped from Cucamongo, CA. They sent me a replacement for the crank.
 
Very cool. To each his own I guess. I still would rather not have the bike sitting exposed on a bike rack for persons or elements to mess with. I'll stick with placing it in the hatch of my CX-5 with the cargo cover hiding it, no matter how much of a hassle it is to get in and out. Sounds like some nice bikes you ended up with. Good for you Sir.

It seems I got one of the good stock in receiving my LM750. Everything appears to be working okay. I took it for a maiden journey around the neighborhood for about 10 minutes. It was actually scary at first, but when I got the gist of it I was liking it quite a bit. Everything seemed to be working properly and I was cruising at 27 mph.

I don't think I mentioned that I am a Mechanical Engineer. I would work with teams of Engineers on projects. Electrical, Electronics, Fluid Power, etc... Engineers. So my expertise lies in the mechanical side of things. I started playing with the design and adding my own accessories beginning with taking the stupid padded seat off and replacing it with a pannier that comes close to matching the color of the bike.
View attachment 80241
I also acquired an actual miniature hitch ball that I am going to mount and designing a small shopping trailer for it complete with pneumatic wheels, suspension and shocks. Basically an aluminum frame that accommodates a couple of milk crates.

But I still do have many questions. I researched the controller interface to find the settings within and I found a few things that I found to be a bit strange to me. I could wait for an answer from Rattan that not only will be a bunch of broken English but non-informative as well after waiting several days for an answer. So maybe someone here knows.
View attachment 80242
Does anyone know what the heck this thing is for?

You gave me some information about the power wattage of the motor and in looking through the parameter settings within the controller interface (computer) rather concerns me a bit. This parameter shows the current set to 20.0 amps and at 48V adds up to 960W. Do you think that is too much for the motor to handle? Should I toggle it back to 16.0 amps or so?
View attachment 80243
There is also something on the display that is not mentioned in any documentation other than showing that it is another icon on the display. I kinda stumbled upon how to activate the icon, but I don't have a clue as to what it is for. I checked it for blue-tooth connectivity with my phone but got nada. Anybody have an idea of what this icon means?
View attachment 80244

Any ideas on what these things are is appreciated. I thought the first thing (the lug on the rack) might be for attaching some sort of trailing device, but can't be sure. I certainly would not have anything that frail for that type of purpose.
Thanks for any insight you folks can offer.
I attached a 3rd party turn signal to it.
Very cool. To each his own I guess. I still would rather not have the bike sitting exposed on a bike rack for persons or elements to mess with. I'll stick with placing it in the hatch of my CX-5 with the cargo cover hiding it, no matter how much of a hassle it is to get in and out. Sounds like some nice bikes you ended up with. Good for you Sir.

It seems I got one of the good stock in receiving my LM750. Everything appears to be working okay. I took it for a maiden journey around the neighborhood for about 10 minutes. It was actually scary at first, but when I got the gist of it I was liking it quite a bit. Everything seemed to be working properly and I was cruising at 27 mph.

I don't think I mentioned that I am a Mechanical Engineer. I would work with teams of Engineers on projects. Electrical, Electronics, Fluid Power, etc... Engineers. So my expertise lies in the mechanical side of things. I started playing with the design and adding my own accessories beginning with taking the stupid padded seat off and replacing it with a pannier that comes close to matching the color of the bike.
View attachment 80241
I also acquired an actual miniature hitch ball that I am going to mount and designing a small shopping trailer for it complete with pneumatic wheels, suspension and shocks. Basically an aluminum frame that accommodates a couple of milk crates.

But I still do have many questions. I researched the controller interface to find the settings within and I found a few things that I found to be a bit strange to me. I could wait for an answer from Rattan that not only will be a bunch of broken English but non-informative as well after waiting several days for an answer. So maybe someone here knows.
View attachment 80242
Does anyone know what the heck this thing is for?

You gave me some information about the power wattage of the motor and in looking through the parameter settings within the controller interface (computer) rather concerns me a bit. This parameter shows the current set to 20.0 amps and at 48V adds up to 960W. Do you think that is too much for the motor to handle? Should I toggle it back to 16.0 amps or so?
View attachment 80243
There is also something on the display that is not mentioned in any documentation other than showing that it is another icon on the display. I kinda stumbled upon how to activate the icon, but I don't have a clue as to what it is for. I checked it for blue-tooth connectivity with my phone but got nada. Anybody have an idea of what this icon means?
View attachment 80244

Any ideas on what these things are is appreciated. I thought the first thing (the lug on the rack) might be for attaching some sort of trailing device, but can't be sure. I certainly would not have anything that frail for that type of purpose.
Thanks for any insight you folks can offer.
I attached a third party turn signal light to it.
 

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I attached a 3rd party turn signal to it.

I attached a third party turn signal light to it.
That's rather interesting. I don't care to use hand signals myself. I think that's dorky, besides dangerous, taking your hand off the wheel. But the turn signals are a nice touch. Where did you get those?
 
I'll check it out. It might be in the way of my trailer hitch ball I plan to mount there. The trailer design is coming along.

TRAILER_PROGRESS.jpg
 
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One problem could be the weight distribution with the battery mounted rearward of the saddle. It seems like a center frame mounted battery makes more sense for more neutral weight distribution.
 
The folding design, requiring smaller wheels, doesn't help either. Larger diameter wheels would put more strain on the motor but it puts more of the bike weight below the axles. I think moving the battery forward and as low as possible would be a better placement as well. We're already sitting on the seat and placing all that weight in that location. Having the extra weight more forward as stated would distribute things a lot better and possibly help with maneuvering it better too. Maneuverability feels clumsy at best.
 
One problem could be the weight distribution with the battery mounted rearward of the saddle. It seems like a center frame mounted battery makes more sense for more neutral weight distribution.
One of the Youtube guys casually cautioned about the rear weight bias of the bike which could possibly result in unintentional wheelies over large bumps. My cowboy days are behind me so that spooked me a bit.

Still, my one and only contact with the company is primarily what convinced me to steer clear. They might as well told me to F---off. (I elaborated on another thread). I wound up buying an Ecotric even though that was a distant 3rd choice on my list. I still intend to buy a second bike for other members of the family and really like what I've seen and heard about the LM/LF 750 series.

I'm not in a rush at this point, so I'm willing to wait and see if the company gets their act together in the U.S. market. I don't mind risking a potential assembly and manufacturing snafu, but won't tolerate being left for dead if there's a serious defect.
 
One of the Youtube guys casually cautioned about the rear weight bias of the bike which could possibly result in unintentional wheelies over large bumps. My cowboy days are behind me so that spooked me a bit.

Still, my one and only contact with the company is primarily what convinced me to steer clear. They might as well told me to F---off. (I elaborated on another thread). I wound up buying an Ecotric even though that was a distant 3rd choice on my list. I still intend to buy a second bike for other members of the family and really like what I've seen and heard about the LM/LF 750 series.

I'm not in a rush at this point, so I'm willing to wait and see if the company gets their act together in the U.S. market. I don't mind risking a potential assembly and manufacturing snafu, but won't tolerate being left for dead if there's a serious defect.
I have not seen that video. There were not very many videos about the Rattan LM/LF750 when I was researching. It is technically a Yamee bike with a different name. The LM750 I received was in pretty good condition after traveling many moons across the ocean and then sitting in Customs for weeks. I only bought it to see if I would want one. It has its flaws and I really don't know what to expect if the thing ever needs service. For all I know it will turn out to be a disposable.
In the end, I like the looks of the bike and the green color I selected is perfect for the way I set it up. Looks quite 'military-like" and I get lots of comments about it in lieu of compliments. On the trail I get persons saying, "nice" as I drive by, or people around the neighborhood saying they like my bike (mostly the teen boys).
For the most part it works well so far and I have not encountered any real functional issues. I just wish it were designed and manufactured better. The frame is not welded squarely and the battery is not only out in the open, it also does not seat against its nest squarely and the connectors are exposed. So therefore you cannot ride it if there is a chance of rain or after a rain when there are puddles for that matter. The water would spray directly onto the battery connection and into the control box too. None of it is water protected in the least. I put some weather strip on it to fill gaps strategically so if I do encounter water I at least stand half a chance of it surviving. Water and electricity does not mix.
After owning and riding this bike I have come to realize that I really would have rather paid a little more for the US made Lectric even though it is a little too "electric" looking for my taste. But the battery is enclosed in the frame and you can literally get caught in the rain if it happened. I also am to understand that the Ehora would be a better choice as a toy. I'm comparing the Rattan to the Ehora as toys. To me they are just gimmicks to play with.
But from what I have learned, I really find that I like an electric bike in a sense of riding. I can really put on some miles without over-exerting myself, still get plenty of exercise and actually get up a steep hill without walking it. I took it out only a few times around the hood and a couple of those were down the trail a bit. I only went to a friends house a few miles away as my only trip that I actually had a destination for. I already have 90 miles on it.
Speaking of miles and customer service, the mileage was way off and in speaking with CS about this they insisted that I, a Mechanical Engineer, was incorrect and that even though I knew there was 3 miles from point A to point B, the bike showed I had driven further. I just ignored their BS and stupidity, adjusted the wheel diameter in the settings and now I am pretty accurate. Another prime example of CS and the joy of dealing with them. They have bad attitudes and even when they are wrong they will continue to argue with you. Plus they will look even stupider by demeaning your skills and knowledge. So, if you do get one, whatever it is, make sure 10 miles is actually 10 miles on the ODO.
 
I have not seen that video. There were not very many videos about the Rattan LM/LF750 when I was researching. It is technically a Yamee bike with a different name. The LM750 I received was in pretty good condition after traveling many moons across the ocean and then sitting in Customs for weeks. I only bought it to see if I would want one. It has its flaws and I really don't know what to expect if the thing ever needs service. For all I know it will turn out to be a disposable.
In the end, I like the looks of the bike and the green color I selected is perfect for the way I set it up. Looks quite 'military-like" and I get lots of comments about it in lieu of compliments. On the trail I get persons saying, "nice" as I drive by, or people around the neighborhood saying they like my bike (mostly the teen boys).
For the most part it works well so far and I have not encountered any real functional issues. I just wish it were designed and manufactured better. The frame is not welded squarely and the battery is not only out in the open, it also does not seat against its nest squarely and the connectors are exposed. So therefore you cannot ride it if there is a chance of rain or after a rain when there are puddles for that matter. The water would spray directly onto the battery connection and into the control box too. None of it is water protected in the least. I put some weather strip on it to fill gaps strategically so if I do encounter water I at least stand half a chance of it surviving. Water and electricity does not mix.
After owning and riding this bike I have come to realize that I really would have rather paid a little more for the US made Lectric even though it is a little too "electric" looking for my taste. But the battery is enclosed in the frame and you can literally get caught in the rain if it happened. I also am to understand that the Ehora would be a better choice as a toy. I'm comparing the Rattan to the Ehora as toys. To me they are just gimmicks to play with.
But from what I have learned, I really find that I like an electric bike in a sense of riding. I can really put on some miles without over-exerting myself, still get plenty of exercise and actually get up a steep hill without walking it. I took it out only a few times around the hood and a couple of those were down the trail a bit. I only went to a friends house a few miles away as my only trip that I actually had a destination for. I already have 90 miles on it.
Speaking of miles and customer service, the mileage was way off and in speaking with CS about this they insisted that I, a Mechanical Engineer, was incorrect and that even though I knew there was 3 miles from point A to point B, the bike showed I had driven further. I just ignored their BS and stupidity, adjusted the wheel diameter in the settings and now I am pretty accurate. Another prime example of CS and the joy of dealing with them. They have bad attitudes and even when they are wrong they will continue to argue with you. Plus they will look even stupider by demeaning your skills and knowledge. So, if you do get one, whatever it is, make sure 10 miles is actually 10 miles on the ODO.
Brent McClusky posted a very thorough if somewhat gonzo review late last year. He does seem to conflate the 500W and 750W versions, but still a very useful and smart evaluation. He mentions the back weight business between the 4 and 5 minute mark. Later he also addresses a potential issue with the front stem.


One of the problems with these pro or semi-pro reviews is that the guys generally don't live with the bike over time, so they're not likely to encounter real world issues. They also tend to have a symbiotic relationship with the company so the criticisms are usually a bit muted.

While I may have been the first kid on my black to ride an ebike (I think it was 2008) I can't say I need it for commuting or any practical purpose. I only know that I rented one for a couple of days on Catalina Island and was bonkers about it. At the time there was only one manufacturer I believe, and that was an Italian based company without much distribution. Schwinn got into the market a little later. I've been kind of asleep at the switch about buying one until I saw one (a Trek for close to $4k) at a local sporting goods store last year. $4k may not be a fortune but more than I was willing to spend for casual summer nature rides a couple of times a week. (I'm in northern New England and have no intention of riding during the winter). I didn't realize until the Pandemic began that there was a robust internet direct-to-buyer market with entry level pricing. I'm not thinking about it as a "toy" necessarily, but not willing to invest a lot of money until I get a handle on how much I use and enjoy it. I'm pretty much with you in that respect. Even though there's not too far to fall financially with a $1k (give or take a few hundred) vehicle, I still don't want to buy five thousand dollars worth of aggravation for a $1-2K bike.

I didn't research the Eahola (there are now more brands than I can keep score of) but Lectric was my first choice. With shipping delays I realized I might miss most of the riding season though, so Rattan was my next choice. I think it's potentially an even better bike and well worth a little extra money. Still, for the reasons I previously mentioned I decided to pass for now on the Rattan. The Ecotric was a distant third choice but availability wasn't an issue, and the price was right. While I don't think customer service is equal to Lectric (or some other U.S. distributors) I haven't heard the war stories that Rattan users have experienced.
 
Brent McClusky posted a very thorough if somewhat gonzo review late last year. He does seem to conflate the 500W and 750W versions, but still a very useful and smart evaluation. He mentions the back weight business between the 4 and 5 minute mark. Later he also addresses a potential issue with the front stem.


One of the problems with these pro or semi-pro reviews is that the guys generally don't live with the bike over time, so they're not likely to encounter real world issues. They also tend to have a symbiotic relationship with the company so the criticisms are usually a bit muted.

While I may have been the first kid on my black to ride an ebike (I think it was 2008) I can't say I need it for commuting or any practical purpose. I only know that I rented one for a couple of days on Catalina Island and was bonkers about it. At the time there was only one manufacturer I believe, and that was an Italian based company without much distribution. Schwinn got into the market a little later. I've been kind of asleep at the switch about buying one until I saw one (a Trek for close to $4k) at a local sporting goods store last year. $4k may not be a fortune but more than I was willing to spend for casual summer nature rides a couple of times a week. (I'm in northern New England and have no intention of riding during the winter). I didn't realize until the Pandemic began that there was a robust internet direct-to-buyer market with entry level pricing. I'm not thinking about it as a "toy" necessarily, but not willing to invest a lot of money until I get a handle on how much I use and enjoy it. I'm pretty much with you in that respect. Even though there's not too far to fall financially with a $1k (give or take a few hundred) vehicle, I still don't want to buy five thousand dollars worth of aggravation for a $1-2K bike.

I didn't research the Eahola (there are now more brands than I can keep score of) but Lectric was my first choice. With shipping delays I realized I might miss most of the riding season though, so Rattan was my next choice. I think it's potentially an even better bike and well worth a little extra money. Still, for the reasons I previously mentioned I decided to pass for now on the Rattan. The Ecotric was a distant third choice but availability wasn't an issue, and the price was right. While I don't think customer service is equal to Lectric (or some other U.S. distributors) I haven't heard the war stories that Rattan users have experienced.
I'm sure the more popular they become, the better the quality will rise or the price go down. That's why I bought the Rattan, just so I didn't have to spend an inflated amount just to try one. I'm also confident that the bike stores inflate their prices to more than what the bikes are worth as well. Half the brands I never heard of. Of course, if we are going to spend a pretty penny for something like this, we certainly want to get what we will be happy with. We certainly also want decent customer service when questions arise or service is needed.

On the less expensive side I was juggling between the Eahora (spelled it wrong before) and this Rattan. I wasn't finding much of information on either of them. Mostly just vids on putting one together and just a couple of videos doesn't cut it for me. But we just started having better weather during time off when I could actually go out for rides. We're in a Western suburb of Chicago and I basically lived a block from the Fox River Bike Trail. My Nephew lives out in Connecticut though, so I'm familiar with weather up that way.

I haven't spent too much time on the trail though. On nice days it is tremendously crowded with bikers and pedestrians that block the whole path. It sounds crazy, but this was initially intended to be specifically a bike trail. Then joggers ran it, which is fine as they are normally one person. But now we get like whole families crowding up spots. It's like the trail now needs a dedicated bike lane. LOL
 
I'm sure the more popular they become, the better the quality will rise or the price go down. That's why I bought the Rattan, just so I didn't have to spend an inflated amount just to try one. I'm also confident that the bike stores inflate their prices to more than what the bikes are worth as well. Half the brands I never heard of. Of course, if we are going to spend a pretty penny for something like this, we certainly want to get what we will be happy with. We certainly also want decent customer service when questions arise or service is needed.

On the less expensive side I was juggling between the Eahora (spelled it wrong before) and this Rattan. I wasn't finding much of information on either of them. Mostly just vids on putting one together and just a couple of videos doesn't cut it for me. But we just started having better weather during time off when I could actually go out for rides. We're in a Western suburb of Chicago and I basically lived a block from the Fox River Bike Trail. My Nephew lives out in Connecticut though, so I'm familiar with weather up that way.

I haven't spent too much time on the trail though. On nice days it is tremendously crowded with bikers and pedestrians that block the whole path. It sounds crazy, but this was initially intended to be specifically a bike trail. Then joggers ran it, which is fine as they are normally one person. But now we get like whole families crowding up spots. It's like the trail now needs a dedicated bike lane. LOL
DO NOT BUY A RATTAN UNLESS YOU WANT CONSTANT HEADACHES AND WORTHLESS CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!!!!
 
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