New controller install and test - Pace 500

[Rickey Ricardo]

Received the new throttle on demand display and controller yesterday, installed this morning then went for a quick ride. First my impression of the new feel and then a couple of notes on the installation. It was a pleasant surprise to see that waking the electronics brings the bike to PAS 0. I had not seen this documented, and to me it is a notable improvement. When set to PAS 1, the famous "lurch" is now more like a noticeable nudge. With factory settings, top speed seems to have been lowered just a bit, too. For me it was around 11 mph instead of the previous 12. Both PAS 1 and 2 have the gentler pedal response, when I went to PAS 3 there was more of a kick. PAS 1 and 2 seemed about 30% less jumpy. The throttle on demand feature worked like a charm. It totally removes the daunting part of being stopped at the bottom of a steep hill. Is it all worth the price of admission? To me, yes. This is my wife's bike, and she never felt comfortable on it. The learning curve has been slightly flattened. I wish Aventon had backed off PAS 1 even more, and lowered the top speed. They could also improve the electronic interface to make software updates via the data port and to allow riders some customization of the power curve. Nevertheless, I'm glad for this update and think it starts to bring the electronics of the Pace 500 up to the level of its mechanical components and build.

The removal of old components and installation of new took me about an hour. I looked over the clear instructions that were provided via email when I purchased the components and figured I could do it myself (despite Aventon "vehemently" insisting that a professional be hired). The only tools needed are a 3mm hex wrench, a small philips head screwdriver and possibly a flat head screwdriver. I also used two pair of pliers to help prise apart the cable connections. Do the job in good light! A headlamp helps. The only two minor issues came in threading the motor cable through the hole in the down tube and in cable management in the tight down tube space. Aventon's instructions and photos are clear, I have only posted a picture of how I managed the threading of the motor cable through the down tube hole without removing the rubber grommet. Remember to install the new controller with cable on top (when in doubt read the instructions ), and be prepared to push and pull cables a bit to get the battery tray cover back on.

The trickiest part of the job is threading the cable through the hole in the down tube. Although Aventon suggests removing the rubber grommet, I found it was not necessary. What worked for me was to lay the bike on its side and insert a long screwdriver gently through the hole from the bottom. Next I attached the motor cable to the screwdriver tip using tape (directly on top of it, not side by side). Then by both pulling the screwdriver while pushing the cable I was able to get the cable end to the edge of the hole before the tape came off. I pulled it the rest of the way through with needle nose pliers. There must be lots of ways to undertake this fishing expedition, this is just one.

Ride on!

 

[Bigal1463]

Thanks very much for the review And Karoo for Aventon. I’m looking for to the switch and grateful that Aventon listened and responded. Their product and the people running the show are top notch.

 

[GenXrider]

Received the new throttle on demand display and controller yesterday, installed this morning then went for a quick ride. First my impression of the new feel and then a couple of notes on the installation. It was a pleasant surprise to see that waking the electronics brings the bike to PAS 0. I had not seen this documented, and to me it is a notable improvement. When set to PAS 1, the famous "lurch" is now more like a noticeable nudge. With factory settings, top speed seems to have been lowered just a bit, too. For me it was around 11 mph instead of the previous 12. Both PAS 1 and 2 have the gentler pedal response, when I went to PAS 3 there was more of a kick. PAS 1 and 2 seemed about 30% less jumpy. The throttle on demand feature worked like a charm. It totally removes the daunting part of being stopped at the bottom of a steep hill. Is it all worth the price of admission? To me, yes. This is my wife's bike, and she never felt comfortable on it. The learning curve has been slightly flattened. I wish Aventon had backed off PAS 1 even more, and lowered the top speed. They could also improve the electronic interface to make software updates via the data port and to allow riders some customization of the power curve. Nevertheless, I'm glad for this update and think it starts to bring the electronics of the Pace 500 up to the level of its mechanical components and build.

Does the new controller and display in PAS 1 increase power when you drop below 11 mph and then reduce power when you go above 11 mph, sort of like it's got a speed threshold like a cruise control, or does the bike maintain consistent power if you pedal faster than that? With the Ride1Up 700, the old models used to be speed based for PAS, but newer models maintain a consistent amount of power regardless of your speed or hwo fast you pedal. I'm curious how the Aventon new controller/display compares in that respect.

 

[Rickey Ricardo]

Does the new controller and display in PAS 1 increase power when you drop below 11 mph and then reduce power when you go above 11 mph, sort of like it's got a speed threshold like a cruise control, or does the bike maintain consistent power if you pedal faster than that? With the Ride1Up 700, the old models used to be speed based for PAS, but newer models maintain a consistent amount of power regardless of your speed or hwo fast you pedal. I'm curious how the Aventon new controller/display compares in that respect.

It seems to have a speed threshold, it's human-powered above that speed.

 

[GenXrider]

It seems to have a speed threshold, it's human-powered above that speed.

Well that's a bummer. I was hoping they took Ride1Up's lead and moved from the speed based assist. Oh well, thanks for the information.

 

[BigNerd]

Unlike GenXRider, I prefer the speed limited PAS.

I feel it’s conserves power better and gives you more granular control of the power output if the cadence sensor is true cadence triggered.

I believe the Aventon had a voltage output setting, does it fluctuate based on your pedal cadence?

 

[Rickey Ricardo]

I am only aware of the speed-based PAS setting, which I set at the lowest speed for my wife's use; with the new controller it makes the Pace 500 mannerly for new riders.

 

[AdamT]

I am only aware of the speed-based PAS setting, which I set at the lowest speed for my wife's use; with the new controller it makes the Pace 500 mannerly for new riders.

You mean you can set the speed? Can you explain how one does that?

 

[Rickey Ricardo]

 

[AdamT]

Thanks, Rickey. I guess you can only adjust the top speed. Question is ... does that affect the speeds in levels 1-4? In other words, if I reduce the max speed to 20mph, will there be a relative reduction in the other levels? I suppose I should just test it and find out myself.

 

[GenXrider]

It's like a cruise control, like the Espin. I really prefer the power based PAS that doesn't cut out at a certain speed making it feel like you're dragging a boat anchor or unnecessarily crank the power so high when you go up a hill draining your battery and giving an unnatural feeling to pedaling. With my Ride1Up, it maintains a consistent power output in a given PAS level. It won't cut out power unless you pedal it up to 28 mph. I was hoping Aventon would make that change as well as Espin, but it looks like they haven't.

 

[BigNerd]

It's like a cruise control, like the Espin. I really prefer the power based PAS that doesn't cut out at a certain speed making it feel like you're dragging a boat anchor or unnecessarily crank the power so high when you go up a hill draining your battery and giving an unnatural feeling to pedaling. With my Ride1Up, it maintains a consistent power output in a given PAS level. It won't cut out power unless you pedal it up to 28 mph. I was hoping Aventon would make that change as well as Espin, but it looks like they haven't.

This is what I mean. You keep criticizing a system that you’ve never ridden.

This is not how the Espin works.

I was hoping you would stop spreading this misinformation in the Espin forums and here you are doing it in the Aventon one.

 

[GenXrider]

This is what I mean. You keep criticizing a system that you’ve never ridden.

This is not how the Espin works.

I was hoping you would stop spreading this misinformation in the Espin forums and here you are doing it in the Aventon one.

It is how the Espin works, at least with the old controller. There's plenty of detail about that in the Espin subforum here exactly how the PAS works. And I was giving my opinion that I was hoping that Aventon would make that change to power based assist even if Espin doesn't. I don't have anything against Espin, but I would definitely replace the controller first thing if I had one.

 

[Limeybastard]

So PAS wise what’s the difference between the Aventon Level and the R1up 700 after the new throttle on demand feature controller hardware update. I’m assuming all new Aventon will by default have this new on demand throttle controller ?
Aren’t they both class 3?

 

[GenXrider]

So PAS wise what’s the difference between the Aventon Level and the R1up 700 after the new throttle on demand feature controller hardware update. I’m assuming all new Aventon will by default have this new on demand throttle controller ?
Aren’t they both class 3?

There were other differences besides the throttle. I know the 700 uses power based assist, not speed based, and all PAS levels are adjustable with a percentage of power configurable for each PAS level plus you can change the number of PAS levels, 0-3, 0-4, ....0-9, 1-9 to your choosing. I have not seen enough details feedback on the Aventon to know if they've even moved from speed based assist. An earlier comment said it seems to be based on speed.

 

[AdamT]

There were other differences besides the throttle. I know the 700 uses power based assist, not speed based, and all PAS levels are adjustable with a percentage of power configurable for each PAS level plus you can change the number of PAS levels, 0-3, 0-4, ....0-9, 1-9 to your choosing. I have not seen enough details feedback on the Aventon to know if they've even moved from speed based assist. An earlier comment said it seems to be based on speed.

This got me interested so I checked the R1Up form. A user there posted this:

"The 700 (which I set for 9 levels) wants to go at a certain speed for each level and its hard to go any slower or faster than that speed. For instance, level 4 on the 700 may propel me at 15.5 mph on flat ground with a full battery (a little less as the battery drops) – if I want to go 16.5 mph it takes a LOT of work to go that extra mph. If I bump it to level 6, I will end up with 17.5 or 18 mph. Trying to match speeds with another rider is difficult on the 700..."

That sounds exactly like Aventon's cadence sensor, except you can only change the top speed and not the number of PAS levels.

 

[BigNerd]

This got me interested so I checked the R1Up form. A user there posted this:

"The 700 (which I set for 9 levels) wants to go at a certain speed for each level and its hard to go any slower or faster than that speed. For instance, level 4 on the 700 may propel me at 15.5 mph on flat ground with a full battery (a little less as the battery drops) – if I want to go 16.5 mph it takes a LOT of work to go that extra mph. If I bump it to level 6, I will end up with 17.5 or 18 mph. Trying to match speeds with another rider is difficult on the 700..."

That doesn't sound ideal. Maybe @GenXrider can confirm this behavior.

 

[pkchari]

This got me interested so I checked the R1Up form. A user there posted this:

"The 700 (which I set for 9 levels) wants to go at a certain speed for each level and its hard to go any slower or faster than that speed. For instance, level 4 on the 700 may propel me at 15.5 mph on flat ground with a full battery (a little less as the battery drops) – if I want to go 16.5 mph it takes a LOT of work to go that extra mph. If I bump it to level 6, I will end up with 17.5 or 18 mph. Trying to match speeds with another rider is difficult on the 700..."

That sounds exactly like Aventon's cadence sensor, except you can only change the top speed and not the number of PAS levels.

Wow. That description matches about what I see with the Aventon as far as going slower than a given speed on a PAS level goes, but doesn't match my personal experience when going above that speed. For instance, going 20 mph at PAS 2 or PAS 3 feels markedly easier than going 20 mph with PAS 1 or PAS 0. So it definitely feels like I'm doing less work at higher PAS levels even if I am providing my own power to go beyond what the motor is providing. I will admit it does not feel linear at all -- at first I thought that the motor was cutting off once I exceeded the speed target of that PAS level and was only there to keep me from dropping below the target speed of that PAS level, but that changed when I was cycling through different PAS levels on a ride. For instance, the effort to go even a little above the given PAS speed is exponentially larger initially and starts to level off as you are two or three mph higher than the max speed. It initially does not feel like the pedal assist is actually "assisting" that much, but the difference between it and unassisted is quite noticeable, so it's clearly doing something.

My initial guess is that it boils down to the fact that energy requirements to speed up grow quadratically. To go 10% faster means 21% more kinetic energy; to go 25% faster means 56% more. And when you just exceed the limits of the power that the motor is giving you at that PAS level, all that extra power is coming from you that you didn't have to apply at all when you were going 0% faster than the motor was propelling you. Yes, it is a bigger load when you are accelerating (because you need to provide power to raise KE that much) as opposed to holding that higher speed, but aerodynamic drag and friction losses per unit time also grow non-linearly with speed.

 

[GenXrider]

This got me interested so I checked the R1Up form. A user there posted this:

"The 700 (which I set for 9 levels) wants to go at a certain speed for each level and its hard to go any slower or faster than that speed. For instance, level 4 on the 700 may propel me at 15.5 mph on flat ground with a full battery (a little less as the battery drops) – if I want to go 16.5 mph it takes a LOT of work to go that extra mph. If I bump it to level 6, I will end up with 17.5 or 18 mph. Trying to match speeds with another rider is difficult on the 700..."

That sounds exactly like Aventon's cadence sensor, except you can only change the top speed and not the number of PAS levels.

Are you intentionally trying to spread misinformation about the current generation of 700s, or did you really only read ONE post in a thread and not see the follow-up posts to see why that no longer applies?? And hasn't applied to 700's since June of last year!

Start with this one, and then read the rest of the that same thread from there:

A comparison between the Limited and the 700

I bought a R1U 700 in March of 2020, which got delivered in June 2020. Overall, its a good bike but I feel like I don't do any work at all when pedaling. I also wanted a second ebike, so that I could leave one at my place in FL, and decided to get a bike with a torque sensor. I also purchased...

electricbikereview.com

I address it specifically in this post how the newer generation 700's work in regard to PAS:

A comparison between the Limited and the 700

I bought a R1U 700 in March of 2020, which got delivered in June 2020. Overall, its a good bike but I feel like I don't do any work at all when pedaling. I also wanted a second ebike, so that I could leave one at my place in FL, and decided to get a bike with a torque sensor. I also purchased...

electricbikereview.com

 

[GenXrider]

That doesn't sound ideal. Maybe @GenXrider can confirm this behavior.

I explained to you in a couple other posts that someone with an older 700 posted how his works the same way as the Espin, and that's the exact post I was referring to, but Kevin stated in an interview after that one was manufactured that they moved to a current/power based assist. Also, you can read that thread for yourself beyond that first posting reviewing the older 700 to get additional detail, but it's really everything I've already said. Don't buy an old used model of the 700 - buy a current generation, or probably any 700 sold late last summer or since then should be good with the power based assist like my 700, which works completely differently than the older gen.