Moving from Vado SL EQ to Creo 2

[SupremeTorch]

I have a Turbo Vado SL 4.0 EQ that I want to ditch in favor of a Creo because I can't get used to the flat bars (and I've been trying for over two years). I use the bike mainly for commuting in a hilly city. How much of the Vado EQ can I cannibalize if I get an alloy Creo? How can I determine if the rack, fender and light from the Vado are compatible with the Creo frame and controller? I'm looking to keep them wired to the internal battery so that I don't need to turn them on and off manually, and I specifically want an aluminium Creo so that it can bear the weight of the rack and panniers.

The other thing I'll miss is the remote. The buttons on the Creo 2, while an improvement over the downtube-only controls in the original Creo, seem way more uncomfortable than with the Vado. I've seen people succesfully wiring a Di2 brifter, but considering that the Creo E5 comes with all SRAM components I think the switch to Di2 would be costly. Is it viable to get the eTaps version of the left brifter that comes with the bike and wire it to the controller like you would a Di2? I can't tell if the switches in the brifter can be wired or if they're wireless only.

 

[Ben J]

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking, but the SRAM eTap system has what SRAM calls "blips", one kind wires to the same-side brifter, and there is also a wireless kind. The function is assignable in the app, but I don't know if you can cross the streams and control the Specialized TCD with them.

SRAM also lets you bind the left, right, and both clicks to anything in the SRAM system. Unfortunately press and hold can only multishift (not allowed for ebikes). SRAM red also has another set of buttons on the inside of the hoods.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

To put it straight @SupremeTorch: You cannot cannibalize almost anything from the Vado SL to upgrade the Creo 2. These two e-bikes are totally different. The Vado SL rack and the rear fender are totally integrated with each other and good for 38 mm tyres maximum (Creo 2 has big 47 mm tyres). I'm even not sure whether the bosses and mounting points on Creo 2 would fit the Vado SL equipment! You cannot use the Vado SL handlebar remote, as it is the wrong size for the Creo 2 handlebar/type, and so on.

The rack? Buy Ortlieb Quick Rack, it is a marvel, compatible with almost any bike, and can be installed and removed in a minute. It is worse with the fenders. Please look at SKS website and look for detachable fenders that can fit 47 mm tyres.

 

[SupremeTorch]

@Ben J Sorry - I guess I wasn't very clear. What I'm looking to do is to hardwire an eTaps brifter to the Specialized TCU, sort of like a reverse-blip. I don't want to use the eTaps system (the E5 Creo 2 is all mechanical) I just want to know if the shift buttons on the eTaps brifter have a cable and act as simple switches so that I can wire them to the TCU like the person in the video does for his Di2, or if they're fully wireless and not attached to anything I can hook into. But I don't intend to use any of the SRAM eTaps app, software, derailleur beyond just the left side brifter.

@Stefan Mikes , the specs page says the E5 comes with 700x38c tires, same as the Vado SL - is there anything else that would make it incompatible?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Stefan Mikes , the specs page says the E5 comes with 700x38c tires, same as the Vado SL - is there anything else that would make it incompatible?

Creo 2 frame (although made with multiple bosses for equipment) was never made to take up the Vado SL equipment. For instance, the integrated rear fender/rear rack combo requires a threaded socket at the junction of the seat-stays, not present on the Creo 2. The devil is in the details, and I assure you the name of Specialized is not coincidental. (Specialized loves integrating things and making proprietary designs and parts).

It makes no sense to maim a good Vado SL to recover several useless and incompatible parts. Just sell the Vado SL in the good shape. Or, keep it as it is.

Indeed, Creo 2 E5 comes with 700 x 38 mm Pathfinder Pro. Just buy SKS Speedrocker fenders (they fit a 700 wheel up to 42 mm). Speedrockers can be detached or attached in minutes. These perfectly coexist with the Ortlieb Quick Rack. One day, you could have an unequipped sporty e-bike, and an equipped one on another.

Moreover, the Vado SL rear rack is flimsy, and only good for 33 lb load (distributed evenly on both sides). Ortlieb Quick Rack takes 44 lbs (distributed evenly).

SKS Speedrockers. (Unfortunately, I have no photo of Speedrockers working in unison with Quick Rack).

 

[AvalancheRun]

SKS Speedrockers. (Unfortunately, I have no photo of Speedrockers working in unison with Quick Rack).

Did you buy the Quick Rack recently? It really does work great. Almost spent $700 on the Tailfin, and glad I didn't. The Quickrack hits all the requirements while looking good too.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Did you buy the Quick Rack recently? It really does work great. The Quickrack hits all the requirements while looking good too.

I purchased the Quick Rack in May. I have never been happy with Specialized fenders, the Racktime rack, and all the integration. The rack was flimsy and it was so easy to bend when overloaded! When the rack bent, it pulled the rear fender aside, so the latter started rubbing the tyre. After the second Racktime bent, I had enough. (I removed the front fender early, as it didn't perform on my forest rides, picking the twigs and blocking the wheel). I removed the rack, rear fender, and got rid of the tail-light.

As it rains in Poland (not this Summer!), I invested in SKS Speedrockers that any of my buddies praised, and you can remove these fenders at any time. Went with Specialized Tracer Pro 42 mm tyres tubeless. Then I bought the Quick Rack, and recently invested in a simple dropper post I need off-road at times.

Usually, I need to carry a pannier with tools, spare parts, a wallet, snack, drinks and Range Extenders on my long Vado SL rides, especially during the races. Quick Rack hasn't failed yet! And yes, it looks good.

. Almost spent $700 on the Tailfin, and glad I didn't.

I took an advice from a very experienced gravel ultramarathon racer, who sells, among other, Tailfin. He was very honest with me even if he was losing the sale: "Tailfin is designed to carry high volume lightweight items such as clothing. If you plan putting 3 kg of bottle batteries, tools, another 2 kg of beverages etc. then Tailfin is not the thing for you. It will be bouncing on the ride!"

Then I bought the Quick Rack as I am experienced with using panniers.

 

[Prairie Dog]

I took an advice from a very experienced gravel ultramarathon racer, who sells, among other, Tailfin. He was very honest with me even if he was losing the sale: "Tailfin is designed to carry high volume lightweight items such as clothing. If you plan putting 3 kg of bottle batteries, tools, another 2 kg of beverages etc. then Tailfin is not the thing for you. It will be bouncing on the ride!"

I’m glad that you’re totally satisfied with the quick rack but let’s be honest here, Tailfin’s rack weight limit is 27kg vs 20kg for the Ortlieb plus it’s totally compatible with carbon frames.

 

[Ben J]

plus it’s totally compatible with carbon frames

Are there other good quickrack systems that use a special replacement axle as the bottom support?

 

[Prairie Dog]

Are there other good quickrack systems that use a special replacement axle as the bottom support?

Old Man Mountain are the only other racks that I’m aware of that carry axle fit kits. I never really delved into any detail with regards to their racks just because Tailfin worked best for me and is compatible with all of my bikes. I’m not here to promote Tailfin, I just wanted to state a fact about the max permitted weight allowance. There’s no doubt that the Ortleib Quick Rack is a superb product and I’m sure there are tons of happy customers.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I’m glad that you’re totally satisfied with the quick rack but let’s be honest here, Tailfin’s rack weight limit is 27kg vs 20kg for the Ortlieb plus it’s totally compatible with carbon frames.

I meant a Tailfin saddle bag. Misunderstanding!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

OTH I wonder why Ortlieb wouldn't be compatible with carbon frames

 

[Prairie Dog]

I meant a Tailfin saddle bag. Misunderstanding!

I don’t haul batteries around so I can’t speak to that. With that said, properly packing any pannier regardless of its contents goes a long way with respect to ensuring a rattle proof ride.

OTH I wonder why Ortlieb wouldn't be compatible with carbon frames

I’m not sure why either but I suspect that might be Ortlieb just playing it safe. Likely preferable to saying so rather than hide behind a ‘Use at your own responsibility’ clause. My Cannondale road bike naturally has no rack eyelets so the Tailfin will complement it well for an upcoming overseas trip. The rack also fits my other carbon bikes using the universal axle/UDH adapter kits and is also dropper friendly.

 

[Ben J]

OTH I wonder why Ortlieb wouldn't be compatible with carbon frames

If you don't have the rack mounting screw near the derailleur (which may be less common on carbon frames? my grizl does not have it) you have to use an adapter that clamps onto the chainstay (or is it the seatstay?) somewhere. It might not work for various reasons (CF chunkier profile, CF can't take the point force clamping load, etc).

The tailfin is expensive, kind of odd looking, and takes proprietary panniers. But I'd believe their load limits more than most because they're making all the supporting elements besides the wheel.

 

[Prairie Dog]

If you don't have the rack mounting screw near the derailleur (which may be less common on carbon frames? my grizl does not have it) you have to use an adapter that clamps onto the chainstay (or is it the seatstay?) somewhere. It might not work for various reasons (CF chunkier profile, CF can't take the point force clamping load, etc).

The tailfin is expensive, kind of odd looking, and takes proprietary panniers. But I'd believe their load limits more than most because they're making all the supporting elements besides the wheel.

There appears to be a bit of confusion between Ortlieb’s product info and the instructions with regards to carbon bikes. On one hand, it clearly states in the instructions that the seat stay adapters are a no go but in the product data spec sheet it gives the thumbs up to carbon bikes with eyelets and carbon seat posts. Go figure.

https://www.ortlieb.com/media/downloads/datasheet/en/quick_rack.pdf

The carbon stays on my Cannondale are not very beefy so my preference is with Tailfin’s thru axle where the load bearing weight is focused.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you Ben and Art for clarifying the things! It looks I should avoid carbon e-bikes at any cost!

I don’t haul batteries around so I can’t speak to that. With that said, properly packing any pannier regardless of its contents goes a long way with respect to ensuring a rattle proof ride.

I do agree. I had hopes regarding a big saddle bag until the man made me visualize the bag swinging in rough terrain...

 

[Prairie Dog]

Thank you Ben and Art for clarifying the things! It looks I should avoid carbon e-bikes at any cost!

Yes, perhaps you specifically cuz we all know your feelings about carbon bikes.

I do agree. I had hopes regarding a big saddle bag until the man made me visualize the bag swinging in rough terrain...

That's a pretty bold statement. So, tell me Stefan, do you even know how the panniers are attached to a bike? Please enlighten me as to how they would be swinging.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

That's a pretty bold statement. So, tell me Stefan, do you even know how the panniers are attached to a bike? Please enlighten me as to how they would be swinging.

I'm sorry for the confusion. I thought of Apidura not Tailfin...

The Apidura bag would sway a lot! Now I understand what you were talking about!

All my earlier posts mentioning 'Tailfin' have been of course wrong.

 

[Prairie Dog]

I'm sorry for the confusion. I thought of Apidura not Tailfin...

View attachment 181410
The Apidura bag would sway a lot! Now I understand what you were talking about!

All my earlier posts mentioning 'Tailfin' have been of course wrong.

I agree, seat bags are certainly not equipped to carry a lot of weight. Though some have stabilizers such as Topeak’s Backloader wishbone to aid in preventing the dreaded side to side flop.

I admit that Tailfin isn’t for everyone. It’s a pricey bit of kit but the build quality of their products is superb as is their customer service and support.

 

[Dazmanturbo]

I have a Turbo Vado SL 4.0 EQ that I want to ditch in favor of a Creo because I can't get used to the flat bars (and I've been trying for over two years). I use the bike mainly for commuting in a hilly city. How much of the Vado EQ can I cannibalize if I get an alloy Creo? How can I determine if the rack, fender and light from the Vado are compatible with the Creo frame and controller? I'm looking to keep them wired to the internal battery so that I don't need to turn them on and off manually, and I specifically want an aluminium Creo so that it can bear the weight of the rack and panniers.

The other thing I'll miss is the remote. The buttons on the Creo 2, while an improvement over the downtube-only controls in the original Creo, seem way more uncomfortable than with the Vado. I've seen people succesfully wiring a Di2 brifter, but considering that the Creo E5 comes with all SRAM components I think the switch to Di2 would be costly. Is it viable to get the eTaps version of the left brifter that comes with the bike and wire it to the controller like you would a Di2? I can't tell if the switches in the brifter can be wired or if they're wireless only.

I have the Creo 1 with Di2 hack to shifter and the Creo 2. I do prefer the Shimano, but the SRAM Apex on the Creo 2 comp is actually really good. It is not possible to put Creo power on SRAM, but the Creo 2 must have a remote to operate the Mastermind TCU. As stock you get the two button remote, which works well, but I am not a fan of all the wires, so I have swapped this to the Levo remote. This situated by my stem and although does mean I have to take my hands off the hood, i love the way it works, especially with the extra buttons for the Mastermind menus.

SRAM levers for Apex are wireless only. The higher levels Force and RED do have the extra ports, but I not seen anyone convert this to Creo Power. With the Di2 hack, this left shifter was unused, so you just swapped the Di2 button to a power button by cutting and joining wires.