Mission Control no longer recording Creo rides?

[mschwett]

how do you like the varia? is it useful in urban riding (i.e. where there are lots of cars, not just the occasional one sneaking up…)

 

[kahn]

how do you like the varia? is it useful in urban riding (i.e. where there are lots of cars, not just the occasional one sneaking up…)

I like it. It shows a count of cars (or bikes) behind you with these little DOTS. It only beeps once per caravan! So, that as a car enters its field (quite far back actually), the margin or edge (g) of the Edge turns red (you can select left or right margin) and it beeps (a bit anemic) but as other cars enter its zone it remains red but does not beep again till they are all cleared and a new one enters. So I can tell when there are three or four cars back there. It goes green when clear. It shows on any screen. The dots move up the screen as the cars gain on you and move representative of their speed. Although, it does become one more thing vying for your attention. And yet another thing that needs to be recharged!!!!! I've got the one with the RED LIGHT. I gather it can be paired with a phone and you don't need an Edge.

 

[mschwett]

i wonder if the phone app is any good. and i wonder if i'd prefer having it onscreen to mission control or rideWithGPS?!?!

oh wait, it actually integrates with rideWithGPS. that's really cool. the weight-weenie in me wonders if it's worth 71 grams!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@ava1ar: As you have read part of this thread, it would be fair from your side to tell me when Bosch will come up with similar ride reports for their excellent e-bikes:

BLEvo v3.9.6

19 wrz 2021 10:38:34 - The Last Ride of Summer 2021

- Movement time: 3:32:02
- Total kilometers: 58,73 km (▲ 7,2 km | ▼ 6,6 km | = 44,9 km)
- Average speed: 16,6 km/h
- Total ascent GPS: +108 m
- Battery consumed: 54% (174Wh)
- Average consumption per KM: 2,96 Wh/km
- Percentage of average assistance: 46,5%
- Wh ride: 406,9Wh
- Biker: 57,2% (232,9Wh)
- Battery: 42,8% (174Wh)

------------------------------------------------------

FULL STATISTICS:

Bike parameters:
Advanced user - 40/60/100 PP 50/100/100 ACC 50% Shuttle 100%

Percentage of average assistance: 46,5%
- ECO: 40,0%
- TRAIL: 60,0%
- TURBO: 100,0%
Manual assistance changes: 47
- OFF: 1
- ECO: 18
- TRAIL: 23
- TURBO: 5

Date time:
- Start: 19 wrz 2021 10:38:34
- End: 19 wrz 2021 16:33:56
- Total time: 5:55:21

Movement time: 3:32:02
- ECO: 2:28:57 (70,2%)
- TRAIL: 58:36 (27,6%)
- TURBO: 04:28 (2,1%)

Movement time: ▲ 0:28:17 | ▼ 0:24:24 | = 2:39:20
- ECO: ▲ 0:18:23 | ▼ 0:17:01 | = 1:53:33
- TRAIL: ▲ 0:07:41 | ▼ 0:06:57 | = 0:43:58
- TURBO: ▲ 0:02:13 | ▼ 0:00:26 | = 0:01:49

Total kilometers: 58,73 km
- ECO: 41,14 km (70,0%)
- TRAIL: 16,64 km (28,3%)
- TURBO: 0,96 km (1,6%)

Total kilometers: ▲ 7,2 km | ▼ 6,6 km | = 44,9 km
- ECO: ▲ 4,5 km | ▼ 4,6 km | = 32,0 km
- TRAIL: ▲ 2,1 km | ▼ 2,0 km | = 12,5 km
- TURBO: ▲ 0,5 km | ▼ 0,1 km | = 0,4 km

Total kilometers with assistance: 44,36/58,73 km (75%)
- ECO: 30,83/41,14 km (74%)
- TRAIL: 13,01/16,64 km (78%)
- TURBO: 0,52/0,96 km (54%)

Battery:
- Start: 149% (484Wh)
- End: 96% (310Wh)
- Consumed: 54% (174Wh)
- ECO: 25,1% (80Wh)
- TRAIL: 25,7% (82Wh)
- TURBO: 3,2% (10Wh)

Average consumption per KM: 2,96 Wh/km
- ECO: 1,97 Wh/km
- TRAIL: 4,98 Wh/km
- TURBO: 10,75 Wh/km

Range: 104 km (▲ 193 m)
- ECO: 157 km (▲ 256 m)
- TRAIL: 62 km (▲ 116 m)
- TURBO: 28 km

Battery temperature:
- Min: 13°C
- Max: 16°C
- ∅ : 14°C

Motor temperature:
- Min: 14°C
- Max: 31°C
- ∅ : 23°C

Average speed: 16,6 km/h
- ECO: 16,6 km/h
- TRAIL: 17,0 km/h
- TURBO: 12,9 km/h

Average speed: ▲ 15,2 km/h | ▼ 16,4 km/h | = 16,9 km/h
- ECO: ▲ 14,7 km/h | ▼ 16,2 km/h | = 16,9 km/h
- TRAIL: ▲ 16,7 km/h | ▼ 17,1 km/h | = 17,1 km/h
- TURBO: ▲ 14,2 km/h | ▼ 9,9 km/h | = 11,9 km/h

Maximum speed: 33,9 km/h
- ECO: 33,9 km/h (10:46:08 - km 1,82)
- TRAIL: 30,4 km/h (12:57:03 - km 27,11)
- TURBO: 32,1 km/h (12:57:09 - km 27,15)

Average cadence: 67 rpm
- ECO: 67 rpm
- TRAIL: 69 rpm
- TURBO: 64 rpm

Maximum cadence: 121 rpm
- ECO: 114 rpm (14:56:22 - km 41,64)
- TRAIL: 121 rpm (11:15:29 - km 7,65)
- TURBO: 103 rpm (12:57:05 - km 27,14)

Kcal consumed: 910 Kcal
- ECO: 644 Kcal
- TRAIL: 250 Kcal
- TURBO: 17 Kcal

Average Biker Power: 88 Watt
- ECO: 88 Watt
- TRAIL: 85 Watt
- TURBO: 113 Watt

Maximum biker power: 514 Watt
- ECO: 475 Watt (14:56:15 - km 41,59)
- TRAIL: 514 Watt (11:15:26 - km 7,62)
- TURBO: 296 Watt (12:57:06 - km 27,14)

Average Motor Power: 67 Watt
- ECO: 45 Watt
- TRAIL: 111 Watt
- TURBO: 263 Watt

Maximum motor power: 307 Watt
- ECO: 292 Watt (12:57:43 - km 27,33)
- TRAIL: 304 Watt (16:31:02 - km 58,21)
- TURBO: 307 Watt (16:30:40 - km 58,10)

Total Wh biker: 232,9 Wh
- ECO: 164,8 Wh (70,8%)
- TRAIL: 63,8 Wh (27,4%)
- TURBO: 4,2 Wh (1,8%)

Total Wh motor: 170,5 Wh
- ECO: 79,3 Wh (46,5%)
- TRAIL: 81,1 Wh (47,6%)
- TURBO: 10,1 Wh (5,9%)

Maximum altitude: 120 m
Minimum altitude: 99 m

Total ascent GPS: +108 m
- ECO: +67 m (61,8%)
- TRAIL: +31 m (28,7%)
- TURBO: +10 m (9,5%)

Total descent GPS: -123 m
- ECO: -108 m (87,7%)
- TRAIL: -15 m (12,3%)
- TURBO: -0 m (0,0%)

Uphill altitude gain per hour: 230,0 m/h
- ECO: 218,9 m/h

Downhill altitude gain per hour: 302,9 m/h
- ECO: 381,0 m/h

Maximum gradient: 9,9%
- ECO: 9,9% (15:23:47 - km 46,18)
- TRAIL: 9,0% (12:01:32 - km 16,17)
- TURBO: 7,5% (14:13:58 - km 34,06)

Minimum gradient: -9,2%
- ECO: -9,2% (15:20:21 - km 45,15)
- TRAIL: -6,9% (16:15:06 - km 54,67)
- TURBO: -7,2% (14:05:04 - km 33,54)

The same app works for my (warrantied) 2017 Vado 5.0 and 2021 Vado SL.
---------------
Here's where Specialized are at their best: connectivity. Freedom. (Also, I don't have any problem to replace a chainring with a different size without asking both Bosch and the OEM. An Euro Specialized e-bike will have its speed limit adjusted to American or Canadian law once it is imported there, etc).

 

[ava1ar]

@ava1ar: As you have read part of this thread, it would be fair from your side to tell me when Bosch will come up with similar ride reports for their excellent e-bikes:

First of all, Bosch doesn't produce ebikes - that are making a motors and other electronics for multiple vendors, which produce bikes. So Bosch and Specialized are not direct competitors and have a bit different goals and strategies (analogy from the IT world would be Apple vs Intel).

Second thing is the statistics and functionality you posted above is not delivered to you by Specialized. This is 3rd-party app created by independent person. Cudos to Specialized for keeping their platform open for this type of integration, this was right decision which brings benefits for them. Regarding Bosch I hope their new platform they recently released will allow similar integration and
provide similar capabilities for 3rd-party app developers.

Third, I am not a Bosch fan. When selecting the bike I was focusing more on the requirements for the bike (I wanted belt drive, mid/high-step, under $5k, suitable for commuting, from reputable brand and with long term support from dealer/manufacturer). And the bike I chosen happened to be Bosch-powered. That was it. Probably I would ended with Specialized if I was looking something different. I do know what issues/problems Bosch has with their platform and displays and appreciate their try to make them better (which they fail sometimes). I would easily select another brand/motor for my next bike if it will fit the critetias I will have for it.

And last, I am relatively new here and don't really know why do you have such a negative attitude to the Bosch (may be you have bad experience with Bosch-powered bike in past - sorry if you did, or you just like Specialized and consider them to be better in every aspect - it is your right to think so), but being e-bike enthusiast you can't disagree with me saying that Bosch doing a lot for the eBike industry and thanks to them we see lots of different ebikes of different types in the stores all over the world - ebikes world would not be same without Bosch for sure. And I appreciate Bosch for what they are doing and wisch them good luck in future.

I am sorry for offtopic and some holywar topic in this thread, Stefan brought it here, so I took an opportunity to express my vision on Specialized vs. Bosch discussion we had recently. Have a great day everyone - have fun and be safe out there!

 

[kahn]

i wonder if the phone app is any good. and i wonder if i'd prefer having it onscreen to mission control or rideWithGPS?!?!

oh wait, it actually integrates with rideWithGPS. that's really cool. the weight-weenie in me wonders if it's worth 71 grams!

I start with

I am not a weight weenie. If I gave up a few calories here or there, I'd more than make up for 71 grams!

Well, I guess you could take advantage of REI's return policy. There's some discussion of it on the Bike forum in a few threads. That's how I heard about it. I would have loved having it when I was barrelling down the North Cascades Highway. Places the shoulder was less than friendly and I was cruising at 30-40 mph in the traffic lane.

 

[kahn]

@ava1ar: As you have read part of this thread, it would be fair from your side to tell me when Bosch will come up with similar ride reports for their excellent e-bikes:

BLEvo v3.9.6

19 wrz 2021 10:38:34 - The Last Ride of Summer 2021

- Movement time: 3:32:02
- Total kilometers: 58,73 km (▲ 7,2 km | ▼ 6,6 km | = 44,9 km)
- Average speed: 16,6 km/h
- Total ascent GPS: +108 m
- Battery consumed: 54% (174Wh)
- Average consumption per KM: 2,96 Wh/km
- Percentage of average assistance: 46,5%
- Wh ride: 406,9Wh
- Biker: 57,2% (232,9Wh)
- Battery: 42,8% (174Wh)


--------------------------------------------------------



The same app works for my (warrantied) 2017 Vado 5.0 and 2021 Vado SL.
---------------
Here's where Specialized are at their best: connectivity. Freedom. (Also, I don't have any problem to replace a chainring with a different size without asking both Bosch and the OEM. An Euro Specialized e-bike will have its speed limit adjusted to American or Canadian law once it is imported there, etc).

I would have no idea what to do with all those numbers!

 

[kahn]

First of all, Bosch doesn't produce ebikes - that are making a motors and other electronics for multiple vendors, which produce bikes. So Bosch and Specialized are not direct competitors and have a bit different goals and strategies (analogy from the IT world would be Apple vs Intel).

Second thing is the statistics and functionality you posted above is not delivered to you by Specialized. This is 3rd-party app created by independent person. Cudos to Specialized for keeping their platform open for this type of integration, this was right decision which brings benefits for them. Regarding Bosch I hope their new platform they recently released will allow similar integration and
provide similar capabilities for 3rd-party app developers.

Third, I am not a Bosch fan. When selecting the bike I was focusing more on the requirements for the bike (I wanted belt drive, mid/high-step, under $5k, suitable for commuting, from reputable brand and with long term support from dealer/manufacturer). And the bike I chosen happened to be Bosch-powered. That was it. Probably I would ended with Specialized if I was looking something different. I do know what issues/problems Bosch has with their platform and displays and appreciate their try to make them better (which they fail sometimes). I would easily select another brand/motor for my next bike if it will fit the critetias I will have for it.

And last, I am relatively new here and don't really know why do you have such a negative attitude to the Bosch (may be you have bad experience with Bosch-powered bike in past - sorry if you did, or you just like Specialized and consider them to be better in every aspect - it is your right to think so), but being e-bike enthusiast you can't disagree with me saying that Bosch doing a lot for the eBike industry and thanks to them we see lots of different ebikes of different types in the stores all over the world - ebikes world would not be same without Bosch for sure. And I appreciate Bosch for what they are doing and wisch them good luck in future.

I am sorry for offtopic and some holywar topic in this thread, Stefan brought it here, so I took an opportunity to express my vision on Specialized vs. Bosch discussion we had recently. Have a great day everyone - have fun and be safe out there!

I only picked Specialized Creo due to its weight and reviews. It certainly is not the perfect bike. I mean who would place the power control button on the top tube where you have to glance down to find and press it - eyes off the road and one hand off the handlebars or brakes. Obviously, they know that as they sell optional "remote" buttons that can be placed somewhere along the handlebars. I am not fond of that fact the I have to hit up a dealer, a very busy dealer, to update the software.

Choices and different design criteria help all of us.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

First of all, Bosch doesn't produce ebikes - that are making a motors and other electronics for multiple vendors, which produce bikes.

This is the biggest issue of e-bike OEMs: they have become hostages of Bosch. When Bosch decided to stop the development of the current System electronics (and to introduce the Smart System with totally different battery), all e-bike OEMs have been confronted with very unpleasant situation in which they would better dump all their existing e-bikes and design totally new ones. For instance, Trek cannot continue making their Allant+, Powerfly, Rail, Domane+ if they want to stay current. On contrary, they need to create totally new e-bikes, even if the new battery form factor won't be good for many types of e-bikes (MTB, road, commuter).

So Bosch and Specialized are not direct competitors and have a bit different goals and strategies (analogy from the IT world would be Apple vs Intel).

The true fact here is Specialized owns their solutions while no e-bike OEM owns Bosch E-bike solutions and has to dance to the music played by Bosch. This makes the life of Specialized very easy: A single software system, only two motor lines, and only three battery formats (each appropriate for given category of e-bike: e-MTB, commuter e-bike, a super lightweight e-bike). So when will Bosch come with a super lightweight motor and a matching battery?

Second thing is the statistics and functionality you posted above is not delivered to you by Specialized. This is 3rd-party app created by independent person. Cudos to Specialized for keeping their platform open for this type of integration, this was right decision which brings benefits for them. Regarding Bosch I hope their new platform they recently released will allow similar integration and
provide similar capabilities for 3rd-party app developers.

Specialized has made the data available. Bosch has not, and Bosch won't let any third party develop solutions for their e-bike motors. Most of Bosch E-bike displays are not capable to connect to external devices in the first place. Specialized e-bikes do not require any display (except of e-bikes where the law requires an operable speedometer at all times).

Third, I am not a Bosch fan. When selecting the bike I was focusing more on the requirements for the bike (I wanted belt drive, mid/high-step, under $5k, suitable for commuting, from reputable brand and with long term support from dealer/manufacturer). And the bike I chosen happened to be Bosch-powered. That was it. Probably I would ended with Specialized if I was looking something different.

Specialized Vado 5.0 is $5000, and Vado 4.0 is $4000. Specialized Vado SL is from $3600 to $5000. These e-bikes meet the criteria you mentioned, they only don't use belt drive. (Turbo Como SL comes with a belt drive).

I do know what issues/problems Bosch has with their platform and displays and appreciate their try to make them better (which they fail sometimes). I would easily select another brand/motor for my next bike if it will fit the critetias I will have for it.

If you are not aware of issues Bosch has with their displays, try Purion first, Intuvia next, Kiox third, Smartphone Hub next, Nyon 21 in the end. Name which of these systems allows users to adjust the motor assistance parameters such as Assistance % (Boost) and Maximum Motor Power %. The e-bike display actually is the Achilles heel of Bosch E-Bikes.

And last, I am relatively new here and don't really know why do you have such a negative attitude to the Bosch (may be you have bad experience with Bosch-powered bike in past - sorry if you did, or you just like Specialized and consider them to be better in every aspect - it is your right to think so), but being e-bike enthusiast you can't disagree with me saying that Bosch doing a lot for the eBike industry and thanks to them we see lots of different ebikes of different types in the stores all over the world - ebikes world would not be same without Bosch for sure. And I appreciate Bosch for what they are doing and wisch them good luck in future.

I was quite interested in getting me a full power Bosch gravel e-bike (Cannondale Topstone Neo Lefty). The feature that cooled me down was the Purion display. A $6300 e-bike with a Purion? Then I started reading more and more about the e-bike world vision of Herr Carl Fleischer and promised myself to never buy a Bosch e-bike.

I am sorry for offtopic and some holywar topic in this thread, Stefan brought it here, so I took an opportunity to express my vision on Specialized vs. Bosch discussion we had recently. Have a great day everyone - have fun and be safe out there!

You quoted this thread as the proof I was complaining on "Mission Control bugs". There are no MC bugs I am aware of. There are some features I'm not fond of but am free to choose a third party solution. And I said nothing on cobi.bike here yet, did I? (I read Bosch E-bike forums with great interest; it is like crime fiction).

I would have no idea what to do with all those numbers!

Mschwett would have known For instance, I discovered a "9% incline" road-sign on my latest trip was reading true!

I only picked Specialized Creo due to its weight and reviews. It certainly is not the perfect bike.

Name a single Bosch e-bike comparable to the Creo...

I mean who would place the power control button on the top tube where you have to glance down to find and press it - eyes off the road and one hand off the handlebars or brakes.

Still, there are solutions offered to you: the handlebar buttons. And you can choose if you ride display-less with smartphone in your back pocket, or with TCD, or with a bike computer, or with a sports watch (and the latter is what MTBers do). Updates by dealer? True. Levos can now be updated OTA, and just wait until all Spesh e-bikes will get the OTA update capability (Herr Fleischer has just promised OTA updates for future Bosch Smart System e-bikes).

 

[ava1ar]

I don't think I want to continue this discussion - you are clearly Specialized fanboy and don't want to see/hear anything except how perfect it is (reminds me Apple fanboys around - they also don't consider anything not made by Apple as worth even looking at).
JFYI, Purion is an excellent basic rock-solid solution - easy to use, readable and safe to operate (unlike specialized TCU). Bosch will not ask it's owners to move your sight off the road every time you need to adjust the assistance level. This speaks a lot to me. And the fact $6300 bike came with it just says bike manufacturer decided this way, not Bosch - they just sell motors, batteries and screens - the combination to use is decided by vendors, not Bosch.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

you are clearly Specialized fanboy

No, a Bosch hater. I have owned e-bikes with different systems (like a Giant/Yamaha), and a hub-drive motor e-bike with a Chinese display at the Purion level. Never decided buying a Bosch e-bike (although if a friend of mine tells me he's OK with Purion and 2 A charger on a $5,500 Trek e-MTB, it's fine for him).

(unlike specialized TCU)

Could you elaborate on that? Because the TCU is not a display. It is a controller.

 

[ava1ar]

Could you elaborate on that? Because the TCU is not a display. It is a controller.

I am talking about the thing in the frame with button and leds you need to press to change the assistance level. Most of the Specialized bikes don't have any displays or buttons on the handlebar at all (you probably need to pay extra $$ to get them?)

 

[kahn]

I don't think I want to continue this discussion - you are clearly Specialized fanboy and don't want to see/hear anything except how perfect it is (reminds me Apple fanboys around - they also don't consider anything not made by Apple as worth even looking at).
JFYI, Purion is an excellent basic rock-solid solution - easy to use, readable and safe to operate (unlike specialized TCU). Bosch will not ask it's owners to move your sight off the road every time you need to adjust the assistance level. This speaks a lot to me. And the fact $6300 bike came with it just says bike manufacturer decided this way, not Bosch - they just sell motors, batteries and screens - the combination to use is decided by vendors, not Bosch.

Please don't go away angry. After all this is the SPECIALIZED Subforum on this site. So I would expect a certain, if not high, level of Specialized fandom. I think you made some interesting points.

And @Stefan Mikes - Do I recall that Specialized with its new Smart display might be reducing access to the programming tools that allow third party development? And, I might be totally mis-remembering so forgive me, if I'm wrong.

Although I'm still not sure that I want all that computing or display power located between my legs. I admit that my "scan" timing is getting old - same in the car - and that I get too focused and don't get back to viewing the road as fast as I use to.

 

[kahn]

I am talking about the thing in the frame with button and leds you need to press to change the assistance level. Most of the Specialized bikes don't have any displays or buttons on the handlebar at all (you probably need to pay extra $$ to get them?)

Yes, I did buy Specialized EXTRA ACCESSORY (about $100) Turbo Connect Display (TCD - too many acronyms!) which does show the power level and battery % (as well as the normal computer stuff - distance, speed, time, etc). And at this very moment my Specialized Creo is at the local shop awaiting the installation of yet another EXTRA ACCESSORY - the remote power select buttons that will cost me both the cost of the product and the cost of installation.

I have a question about the TCD which I will raise in a separate thread now that you got me started (g)!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I am talking about the thing in the frame with button and leds you need to press to change the assistance level. Most of the Specialized bikes don't have any displays or buttons on the handlebar at all (you probably need to pay extra $$ to get them?)

What do you know of Specialized e-bikes?

• TCU is located on the top tube of SL e-bikes. As you can see, I don't use it (it is in Stealth Mode now).
• Most of Specialized e-bikes come with a standard remote. The functions performed by remote buttons depend on specific e-bike model.
• TCD-w wired display is used with Vado and Como, and is a standard feature. TCD (wireless) display is optional for other Spesh e-bikes, as their owners might want to use connectivity feature to for example use Garmin Fenix or Edge instead of Specialized display (why to pay $100 extra for something you might not need?)
• Here, I get the full access to all e-bike features via BLEvo app.

I need to stress the fact @kahn owns Creo, a road e-bike. Road bikes come with drop bars. The standard Specialized remote is not the best solution for the drop bars. That's why Specialized offer drop-handlebar buttons as an option. While the Bosch remote is always residing on the top of the handlebar (which is just silly).

Bosch doesn't care if their display/remote is installed on an e-MTB, a commuter e-bike, or a road e-bike. Good or bad, Bosch is not interested because Bosch doesn't make e-bikes. Specialized is a bike company, and they care to use appropriate solutions for given e-bike category.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

And @Stefan Mikes - Do I recall that Specialized with its new Smart display might be reducing access to the programming tools that allow third party development? And, I might be totally mis-remembering so forgive me, if I'm wrong.

The MasterMind TCU is not the best of Specialized inventions. The encoding data encryption applied to the MM TCU is on the data input to the bike. It is to prevent third parties to hamper with the controller/motor, or make it illegal. Still, the ANT+ capability is there. It means the whole data output shall be available in the future. It is because Specialized won't sacrifice the connectivity with Garmin, Wahoo, HR monitors, and what not.

Although I'm still not sure that I want all that computing or display power located between my legs. I admit that my "scan" timing is getting old - same in the car - and that I get too focused and don't get back to viewing the road as fast as I use to.

For me, a display located between the rider's legs is just silly. What did I say? TCD, a sports watch, a bike computer or a smartphone. Specialized won't force you to read from the top tube display. And you will be able to apply Stealth Mode, exactly as I'm doing today. I don't need a disco between my legs!

 

[ava1ar]

What do you know of Specialized e-bikes?

I am not interested on most of their bikes, only two of them have belt (Turbo Como SL). SL 4.0 doesn't have neither display nor buttons, SL 5.0 has some center-mounted display, but no buttons as well. Why did you call you buttons "standard" if they don't really come with even quiet expensive bikes? How I am supposed to control the Turbo Como SL bikes? Looks like via TCU? Am I missing something?
Display (TCD) is very basic and is pretty much similar to Purion on Bosch. Do they have something better?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

SL 4.0 doesn't have neither display nor buttons, SL 5.0 has some center-mounted display, but no buttons as well.

I don't know what SL e-bikes you've tried but all Vado SL and Como SL are equipped with the button remote: the pic I showed was of my Vado 4.0 SL.
High end Spec bikes have TCD included, the less expensive models are not TCD equipped (you can buy a TCD for $100). Now, tell me how much would upgrading the Smartphone Hub to Nyon 21 cost and if you could do the upgrade yourself.

Creo SL has no standard button remote, as it is a road e-bike, and optional buttons for drop handlebars are available.

Features of TCD:

• Five flippable screens
• 10-bar battery level indicator (main battery) and 5-bar battery level indicator (Range Extender)
• Assistance mode selected (Off, Eco, Sport/Trail, Turbo, Smart Control)
• Battery level, %
• Time of the Day
• Batteries' level % (0-150% with Range Extender)
• Current speed
• Distance ridden
• Moving time
• Cadence
• Rider's Leg Power
• Heart rate
• Kcal burnt
• Odometer
• Average speed
• Maximum Speed
• OTA updates
• km or miles
• 12- or 24-hour clock format.

Now please tell me what Purion has to offer.

 

[ava1ar]

don't know what SL e-bikes you've tried but all Vado SL and Como SL are equipped with the button remote: the pic I showed was of my Vado 4.0 SL.

Looks like not all - I am talking about Specialized Turbo Como SL 5.0 https://electricbikereview.com/specialized/turbo-como-sl-5-0/ and it doesn't have buttons. Specialized Turbo Como SL 4.0 doesn't have anything.

Now please tell me what Purion has to offer.

Purion provides ~50% of this, functionality you listed here similar to Bosch Kiox one. Price is higher than Specialized since you are replacing not just display, but the all the brains on the bike (so you are getting upgrade in overall functionality of the display, not just more something to only display your data).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Looks like not all - I am talking about Specialized Turbo Como SL 5.0 https://electricbikereview.com/specialized/turbo-como-sl-5-0/ and it doesn't have buttons. Specialized Turbo Como SL 4.0 doesn't have anything.

Indeed, Como SL has no buttons. You ride on that bike in the upright position, it if matters. Como SL is one of the first Spec e-bikes to get the MasterMind TCU/display. I don't think I would buy a Como SL. People who want more than a city e-bike would probably buy a Vado SL ST if they wanted a step-through.

Purion provides ~50% of this

What does it provide, exactly? Does Kiox have smartphone/sports device connectivity? (I know Purion doesn't).

functionality you listed here similar to Bosch Kiox one. Price is higher than Specialized since you are replacing not just display, but the all the brains on the bike (so you are getting upgrade in overall functionality of the display, not just more something to only display your data).

It seems to be great you don't need to replace the e-bike internals just to replace the display (that's why Specialized bore the cost and pain to swap the BLOKS displays for TCD-w because they didn't want that trouble for the future).