Mid Drive with a 3 speed IGH

[Asunder]

I have a mid-drive and am thinking of getting a strumey archer 3 speed internally geared hub. I will probably have my local bike shop build the wheel. Does anyone have a 3 speed IGH with a mid-drive? What are your experiences, ie. can you still get up 20% grade steep hills? Do you notice that you have a majorly reduced top-speed? Haven't bought anything or even talked to the LBS yet, just looking for ideas.

 

[Joe Remi]

Is there a particular reason why you want so few gears? My only experience is with the Yamaha mid-drive on my Haibike 10-speed, and I shift through most of the range on every ride. The motor has an rpm range it operates best in which requires frequent, small gear changes. I don't know what motor you're using, but a wide ratio 3-speed wouldn't work well with the Yamaha.

 

[tomjasz]

I have a mid-drive and am thinking of getting a strumey archer 3 speed internally geared hub. I will probably have my local bike shop build the wheel. Does anyone have a 3 speed IGH with a mid-drive? What are your experiences, ie. can you still get up 20% grade steep hills? Do you notice that you have a majorly reduced top-speed? Haven't bought anything or even talked to the LBS yet, just looking for ideas.

They are quite popular with BBSxx users. But 20% grade...thats really a steep grade for a road. look at the gear ratio needed now and compare with the IGH you want to use.

 

[tomjasz]

I see you have a bbs02, what are you using now to get up? Are you running a mega range?

 

[E-Wheels]

This might be helpful https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html as it allows you to calculate gear ratios and speeds depending on your cadence

 

[Asunder]

I see you have a bbs02, what are you using now to get up? Are you running a mega range?

I am currently using a megarange i think 11-34. I normally need to get down to my second or third lowest gear to get up the hill. Happily the 20% grade is only for a few hundred feet or so.

 

[Asunder]

Is there a particular reason why you want so few gears? My only experience is with the Yamaha mid-drive on my Haibike 10-speed, and I shift through most of the range on every ride. The motor has an rpm range it operates best in which requires frequent, small gear changes. I don't know what motor you're using, but a wide ratio 3-speed wouldn't work well with the Yamaha.

I am using a Bafang BBS02. I feel like I don't really use a lot of the gears. Most of the time I start out in 4th gear, then as I am getting to cruising speed (18-20 mph) I shift right up to 7th (highest gear) and I skip the gears in between. Then when I am going up a hill I shift down to 2nd.

 

[tomjasz]

I am using a Bafang BBS02. I feel like I don't really use a lot of the gears. Most of the time I start out in 4th gear, then as I am getting to cruising speed (18-20 mph) I shift right up to 7th (highest gear) and I skip the gears in between. Then when I am going up a hill I shift down to 2nd.

Be careful! The BBS02 does like to be wound up at peak RPM. It can overheat and damage the gears starting out in 4th. It should be run as if there was no motor. I NEVER start out there. This is from years of servicing, owning, and supporting that motor. I ALWAYS start out in 2nd. For longest life cycle of the motor!

 

[Joe Remi]

Be careful! The BBS02 does like to be wound up at peak RPM. It can overheat and damage the gears starting out in 4th. It should be run as if there was no motor. I NEVER start out there. This is from years of servicing, owning, and supporting that motor. I ALWAYS start out in 2nd. For longest life cycle of the motor!

There ya go, this is what my research of mid-drives led me to believe. On my Yamaha with torque sensing there's a point at which the rpms are too high to engage the system, so I'll shift up then, but I largely shift it just like a regular bike: gradually clicking down as the hill rises, gradually back up as it levels off. My understanding is mid-drives don't like to be stuck in one gear over varied terrain like a singlespeed.

 

[tomjasz]

There ya go, this is what my research of mid-drives led me to believe. On my Yamaha with torque sensing there's a point at which the rpms are too high to engage the system, so I'll shift up then, but I largely shift it just like a regular bike: gradually clicking down as the hill rises, gradually back up as it levels off. My understanding is mid-drives don't like to be stuck in one gear over varied terrain like a singlespeed.

Exactly, they aren't CVT scooters! But I don't know how other drives function, my experience is primarily with Bafang BBSxx.

 

[Asunder]

There ya go, this is what my research of mid-drives led me to believe. On my Yamaha with torque sensing there's a point at which the rpms are too high to engage the system, so I'll shift up then, but I largely shift it just like a regular bike: gradually clicking down as the hill rises, gradually back up as it levels off. My understanding is mid-drives don't like to be stuck in one gear over varied terrain like a singlespeed.

Meant to quote Thomas instead of Joe.

I normally do shift down on hills. I will take your advice into consideration when riding. Happily I get to drive a decent amount of my ride on fairly flat terrain. I think 3 1/2 of the 4 miles to work are completely flat on a bike path.

And now since talking to my local bike shop they said they can sell me a gently used 8 speed Alfine IGH for a little more than the 3 speed would have been. I think I might go with that instead of the 3 speed.

 

[tomjasz]

Even on the flats, that motor hates being lugged. It needs to run at high RPM. Ive seen more than a few burned out by riding them like a scooter. The BBSHD will take it. The 02 wants to spin! Id do more than consider... <smile>

 

[Joe Remi]

Even on the flats, that motor hates being lugged. It needs to run at high RPM. Ive seen more than a few burned out by riding them like a scooter. The BBSHD will take it. The 02 wants to spin! Id do more than consider... <smile>

The need to shift is why I like mid-drives. I've used a few hub drives, and even in pedelec mode it felt like I was just kinda pedaling along with the power, similar to using throttle. My Yamaha mid-drive is a more involving experience where the rider is required to keep the motor in an optimum range, and the power varies depending on how hard you're riding. Hub drives feel like slow motorcycles to me; mid-drives are fast bicycles.

 

[MLB]

The need to shift is why I like mid-drives. I've used a few hub drives, and even in pedelec mode it felt like I was just kinda pedaling along with the power, similar to using throttle. My Yamaha mid-drive is a more involving experience where the rider is required to keep the motor in an optimum range, and the power varies depending on how hard you're riding. Hub drives feel like slow motorcycles to me; mid-drives are fast bicycles.

NO! That's SETUP, not motor TYPE.
My STromer ST1 was one of the most like you describe for a strong hub motor. BUT, go into the programming and turn the boost down and when and how hard it kicks in and you can make it very very close to my wonderful Haibike with Bosch.
In the same way, if I run my Haibike on the top 2 settings it's very strong and un-bike-like.

 

[Asunder]

Meant to quote Thomas instead of Joe.

I normally do shift down on hills. I will take your advice into consideration when riding. Happily I get to drive a decent amount of my ride on fairly flat terrain. I think 3 1/2 of the 4 miles to work are completely flat on a bike path.

And now since talking to my local bike shop they said they can sell me a gently used 8 speed Alfine IGH for a little more than the 3 speed would have been. I think I might go with that instead of the 3 speed.

I ended up getting the 8 speed Alfine and now having a wide gear ratio and the ability to shift gears while stopped has completely changed the way I drive my e-bike. I now have now found myself getting a lot better fuel economy and riding around in a lower level of assist.

 

[RoyL]

<---Same here, Alfine 8 along with the BBS02 750w.

What cog have you on the Alfine? I`m presently on the 18T, have a 16T to try but not sure if i`ll loose climbing ability with it.

I`m on 26" wheels btw.

Tbh i find i`m changing two gears at a time with this setup, could do with only 4 or 5 i reckon

^

 

[tomjasz]

Nicely done RoyL!!!

 

[Asunder]

<---Same here, Alfine 8 along with the BBS02 750w.

What cog have you on the Alfine? I`m presently on the 18T, have a 16T to try but not sure if i`ll loose climbing ability with it.

I`m on 26" wheels btw.

Tbh i find i`m changing two gears at a time with this setup, could do with only 4 or 5 i reckon


View attachment 16403 ^

I am running an 18T, sorry. That does look smooth. I will have to put a pic of mine up, now that I have it where I want it to be. And I only change 2 gears at a time when I am in a high level of assist (4 or 5 out of 5). But that could just be my personal riding style.