MAC 500W 8T Conversion

[flymeaway]

Decided that this winter project would be a MAC 500W conversion. I decided to go with a 36V system for size and capacity. One of the nice aspects of the conversion; if I decide at some point in the future to move to 48V I can without needing to swap out any components, other then the battery. Components list:

Motobecane Cafe' Latte
MAC 500W 8T geared rear hub
GRIN Cycle Analyst V3
GRIN C7225-NC Controller, basically an Infineon controller designed to interface with the C3
PAS sensor...with 3 switch power setting

I decided to go with PAS versus a torque sensor for pedal sensing. I have bicycles with both systems and the PAS works and gives very predictable response. In the future I could easily convert to a torque sensor.

Here are a few pictures of the conversion so far. Note the method of mounting a torque arm to hold the rear axle in place.

Note to Admin.....I put the thread in Q&A because there isn't a MAC forum.

 

[George S.]

FMA,

A few thoughts...

That's your basic BD hybrid, and a $400 bike. I was trying to figure out if a bike like that is better or worse than the standard $3,000 dealer rear hub bike. Just the bike part. The Latte is a nice deal, decent parts. Not sure how you ended up with the rear disk. Any reason you went rear over front on the motor?

Really wish there were more CA units out there. I have no idea what is happening with my X3, like going up a steep hill. I'm just curious, since the battery lasts forever no matter what I do. You could get a solid understanding of what the motor is doing with a watts readout.

This guy (Sam/Dillenger) is doing a Kickstarter with a front hub and battery. I got basic info on the battery from them. The motor is very basic. The price is right, and they've been around a while. Simple to install.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1182676007/uncomprimising-wireless-blue-tooth-e-bike-conversi

I don't know how much power is 'enough'. If you have open roads, power is speed. The downside is that to push the bike along at 18 mph is 250 watts. At 25 mph it's closer to 500 watts. Lots of extra stuff to get that speed. If you pedal, almost any bike should get to around 20 mph.

That looks like a cost effective way to build a solid ebike.

 

[flymeaway]

That's your basic BD hybrid, and a $400 bike. I was trying to figure out if a bike like that is better or worse than the standard $3,000 dealer rear hub bike. Just the bike part. The Latte is a nice deal, decent parts. Not sure how you ended up with the rear disk. Any reason you went rear over front on the motor?

Hi George,

I bought the bike for the frame (which is very good) and the basic solid component set which is also very good. The hub drive was purchased installed in a Alex DH19 rim using Sapim spokes from EM3EV. Basically a very solid wheel. I wanted a more powerful rear hub then my Carbon and all the research I did on hub drives pointed to the MAC. This bike will be my primary commuting bike and I wanted a good high torque bike capable of giving me continuous 24 ish MPH on my 28 mile round trip, up hills and on the flat. For the cost I don't think you can beat the MAC 500W motor for performance. When you put the new wheel on the back of the Cafe' Latte you have a high quality aluminum frame with a great rear wheel combined with good Shimano components and good Tektro disc brakes. Including my time, the bike cost breaks down as follows:

Bike $499
Wheel and motor delivered $429
36V 15 AH battery $300...6 week ocean freight saved a bundle
GRIN technology components $400
Misc. $75

Basically a $1,700 out of pocket cost. From all the research I've done I'm quite certain this will be a faster more powerful bike then the Carbon. It will be interesting to compare it to the other conversion I did using the 500W Bafang mid-drive Motobecane Elite. I'm assuming similar performance.

Court J.

 

[Matthew Kreger]

This guy (Sam/Dillenger) is doing a Kickstarter with a front hub and battery. I got basic info on the battery from them. The motor is very basic. The price is right, and they've been around a while. Simple to install.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1182676007/uncomprimising-wireless-blue-tooth-e-bike-conversi

Interesting. I hadn't seen this. Just contributed, but with only a week to go and less than half way there it may not get fully funded. I think this kit would work better for me than the various all-in-one wheels coming out. And for about half the price of entry.

 

[JoePah]

Decided that this winter project would be a MAC 500W conversion. I decided to go with a 36V system for size and capacity. One of the nice aspects of the conversion; if I decide at some point in the future to move to 48V I can without needing to swap out any components, other then the battery. Components list:

Motobecane Cafe' Latte
MAC 500W 8T geared rear hub
GRIN Cycle Analyst V3
GRIN C7225-NC Controller, basically an Infineon controller designed to interface with the C3
PAS sensor...with 3 switch power setting

I decided to go with PAS versus a torque sensor for pedal sensing. I have bicycles with both systems and the PAS works and gives very predictable response. In the future I could easily convert to a torque sensor.

Here are a few pictures of the conversion so far. Note the method of mounting a torque arm to hold the rear axle in place.

Note to Admin.....I put the thread in Q&A because there isn't a MAC forum.View attachment 2036 View attachment 2037

Looks good! What battery are you going with? Triangle pack or frame? I know this is a work in progress but shouldn't that motor lead be pointing slightly downward and create a drip loop?

 

[Sharonerd]

What kind of life expectancy do you expect out of these kits?

 

[flymeaway]

What kind of life expectancy do you expect out of these kits?

Not sure I understand the question? Do you mean the converted bike? Or the individual components?

 

[Vern]

When you are done I would like to know you impressions of the bike, especially in comparison to the other bikes you have built and to your Carbon in particular. Is it possible to build a bike that rivals your Carbon for half the price. I really like my Neo Carbon, especially the fact the it feels and looks like a regular bike. I also like the ride quality and the brakes. I just want to commute at an average speed of 6 to 8 mph faster. I also wish my Carbon had slightly bigger tires to absorb road vibrations better, reduce flats(?), and be slightly more comfortable and capable on trails. What are you goals for your builds? What do you wish the Carbon had? I think I may have posted something similar in the past on your Bafun build. Sorry if so, I just find myself interested in your opinions and jealous of you building skills and confidence in taking on these projects.

 

[George S.]

This is a nice overview:

In theory, if you can pick a bike that rides and performs as you want, the addition of a motor is not a huge deal. But you do have weight to contend with, and the quirks of the motor.

I also would like more information about building. Batteries just plain annoy me. I don't know what you have to spend to get some level of reliability.

 

[Sharonerd]

Not sure I understand the question? Do you mean the converted bike? Or the individual components?

Both really.

 

[flymeaway]

Both really.

I have two bikes that were converted last year. A Cannondale MT1000 conversion with Bafang mid-drive 48V 750W, and a Motobecane Elite with a Bafang 36V 500W mid-drive. I rode the Elite as my commuter bike daily, 28 mile round trip. The bike has over 2000 miles ridden and it works as well as the 1st day I rode it. I'm pretty sure the components and the bike will last as long as most retail electric bikes. See the two links to the builds

http://electricbikereview.com/commu...inished-product-thoughts-after-125-miles.572/
http://electricbikereview.com/community/threads/e-mt1000-750w-mid-drive-project.611/

 

[flymeaway]

Is it possible to build a bike that rivals your Carbon for half the price. I really like my Neo Carbon, especially the fact the it feels and looks like a regular bike. What are you goals for your builds? What do you wish the Carbon had? I think I may have posted something similar in the past on your Bafun build. Sorry if so, I just find myself interested in your opinions and jealous of you building skills and confidence in taking on these projects.

Yes, the Cafe Latte with the MAC 500W 8T will be a faster, higher torque bike then the Carbon and it will be about 1/2 the cost. Of course you do sacrifice the integrated look, but as far as comfort and ride, the Motobecane will be similar.

The goal of this build is range and speed, plus better hill climbing (torque). The Elite I built last year is good on the hills, but peaks out at around 22-23 MPH. If I try to set the limit higher I begin to lose torque. I believe the MAC motor should give me 24 MPH at a more consistent torque.

I think building, or rather retrofitting an existing bike isn't that difficult. With this build the motor and wheel assembly are delivered complete and if I had chosen a "bolt on" battery much of the work is already done. The biggest decision (for me) is the battery and I've had good luck buying 15AH basic "bricks" (if you will, the shape that is) and building an enclosure to fit. Since I can wait 6 weeks the battery I bought was a bargain shipped by ocean freight. I'm quite certain the finished product will be the fastest of the three singles I own. The tandem with the 48V 750W mid-drive just pours out torque and power.

 

[Vern]

I'm looking into making a speed pedalec. I love the new nitro bikes but 4k for a bike that looks exactly like my Carbon is hard to justify. I want a 27 speed hard tail with hydraulic brakes. Probably a 650 b tire size. Max speed around 32mph. I want to be able to cruise at 28+ mph on the flats. I don't have too many big hills on my commute. Let me know when you are done building it. I will pick it up so that you don't have to ship it. Lol

 

[Matthew Kreger]

I'm looking into making a speed pedalec. I love the new nitro bikes but 4k for a bike that looks exactly like my Carbon is hard to justify. I want a 27 speed hard tail with hydraulic brakes. Probably a 650 b tire size. Max speed around 32mph. I want to be able to cruise at 28+ mph on the flats. I don't have too many big hills on my commute. Let me know when you are done building it. I will pick it up so that you don't have to ship it. Lol

The Dillenger Stealth Legacy looks like your carbon but with a 750W Bafang mid-drive. It'll do 30mph with the 48V battery. $2K
https://dillengerelectricbikes.com

 

[flymeaway]

The Dillenger Stealth Legacy looks like your carbon but with a 750W Bafang mid-drive. It'll do 30mph with the 48V battery. $2K

That looks like a great deal, considering the mid-drive kit is listed for $1,299 on their site. Assuming the bike is reasonable I think it's a great buy. The only ???? is the Shimano 8 speed hub. That motor has a whole lot of torque and I'm assuming Dillenger checked to make certain the hub can take the torque.

Court J.

 

[flymeaway]

Battery Arrived...! The battery arrived from China. It's on the charger now, but it metered out as specified and for the $284 it's basically a steal!!! It did take 9 weeks to deliver, but now I can build the battery box and finish building the bike.

Court J.

 

[Matthew Kreger]

Wow. That is a steal. Would love to know how it works out and exactly what/where you ordered. The cost of the battery has been keeping me from jumping into this so far.

I don't know if Dillenger has installed a shift-sensor on that bike or if they intend to tell people to stop pedaling when shifting or what...

 

[flymeaway]

http://stores.ebay.com/sunthing28/

Link to the EBAY store. I have done two conversions, this one is my third and I've bought batteries from EBAY Chinese sellers for each conversion. SO far I've been pleased with the cost and quality. The battery I purchased is 36V 15AH, I see it's listed at $299 now. Of course to get the price you have to wait 8+ weeks (ocean freight).

Court J.

 

[George S.]

Is it 12 of these? Not necessarily the same mfgr.

http://www.all-battery.com/Tenergy3.2V15Ah40152SLiFePO4EnergyCellRechargeableBattery-30078.aspx

It's a lot of power. Fairly large.

 

[flymeaway]

There are 12 LiFePO4 Prismatic Cells that comprise the battery.