Luna X2 w/ Ludicrous Controller - top speed & range questions

[mfmoeykens]

Luna X2 w/ Ludicrous Controller questions:
(Im 6', 205lbs, if you needed to know)

In throttle mode, what is the top speed?
About how many miles in full throttle mode?
In PAS Mode, what is the top speed?
About how many miles in PAS mode?

 

[rtp]

Top speed is ~30mph. If your focus is on that, get the Z1 with Ultra motor.
The X2 is great, but is not a ‘ride by throttle indefinitely bike,’ more of a mountain bike with some grunt to it.
Mileage completely depend on assistance level, with the LudiV2 controller or not, and if going via PAS or throttle, speeds, etc.
I usually run PAS 2 of 9 in Ludi Trail mode or adjusted down a bit from default Trail settings, no throttle and do > 20 miles and still be around 60% battery on some rides. I‘m sure I could probably go into Ludi mode and ride throttle only, and bounce off thermal limits (Ultra has much more metal to dissipate heat vs M600) and probably get < 15 miles. Haven’t tried the latter as its not the point of the bike, for me.

 

[mfmoeykens]

Rock on! Thank you for your answer! I'm just asking these questions to get answers to what is the most I can get with the most I put out. I'm not necessarily going to throttle only, just looking to see what electric power I can get out of this bike.
Again, thanks!

 

[IOUZIP]

With or without throttle on a V2 controller you can see 30mph on flat pavement. I have never run throttle only until the battery died. I would say 15 miles to 25 miles depending on the terrain. I have throttled back my v2 controller to protect the drivetrain. Check the box to allow Fixed Throttle Amps. My current config is below. Consider changing the PAS levels from stock 5 levels to 9 levels. Enjoy! Still has more punch than my Bosch CX.

 

[floid]

I've had my X2 for about 3 months now, with the ludicrous upgrade. I see a lot of questions about speed. I will just say this is a mountain bike, not a motorcycle or street bike. It is geared like a mountain bike - for climbing - not for speed. I spent a couple weeks last month riding the trails in NC and it was fun. Mostly I was able to keep the assist in level 1 (of 5) in 750 watt mode to be able to keep up with my son riding a Transition higher end mountain bike. I'm 56 and weigh 260+ lbs. A few times I kicked it up to assist level 2 on the really long steep assents. We rode some decently long rides - Tsali (about 20 miles & 2100 ft of elevation gain), Fire mountain (multiple passes - ~8 miles and 1000 ft of gain), and Black Rock loop (14 miles and 2300 feet of gain) in Pisgah. I don't think I ever used more than 15% of the battery.

Higher power levels are just not needed unless you are just messing around. I still recommend the controller upgrade due to the programmability.

Even riding on a paved trail, I'm able to maintain an average of 15mph for over 15 miles in assist level 1. A 15-mile mostly flat paved ride in assist level 1 (of 5) while limited to 750 watts tends to use up about 10% battery. Just for fun, the other day I rode this 15-mile ride on assist level 2. It wasn't much of a workout, the average speed jumped up ~2mph, and used about 13% battery.

You can likely change out the chain ring and move to a 9-speed cassette for more street riding and higher speeds and less likely to break the chain. But if that is the goal, this isn't the right bike. In the NC community, e-mtb bikes are largely not welcomed or not allowed, mostly due to people tearing up the trails with higher power - riding like they would a motorcycle.

 

[rtp]

I've had my X2 for about 3 months now, with the ludicrous upgrade. I see a lot of questions about speed. I will just say this is a mountain bike, not a motorcycle or street bike. It is geared like a mountain bike - for climbing - not for speed. I spent a couple weeks last month riding the trails in NC and it was fun. Mostly I was able to keep the assist in level 1 (of 5) in 750 watt mode to be able to keep up with my son riding a Transition higher end mountain bike. I'm 56 and weigh 260+ lbs. A few times I kicked it up to assist level 2 on the really long steep assents. We rode some decently long rides - Tsali (about 20 miles & 2100 ft of elevation gain), Fire mountain (multiple passes - ~8 miles and 1000 ft of gain), and Black Rock loop (14 miles and 2300 feet of gain) in Pisgah. I don't think I ever used more than 15% of the battery.

Higher power levels are just not needed unless you are just messing around. I still recommend the controller upgrade due to the programmability.

Even riding on a paved trail, I'm able to maintain an average of 15mph for over 15 miles in assist level 1. A 15-mile mostly flat paved ride in assist level 1 (of 5) while limited to 750 watts tends to use up about 10% battery. Just for fun, the other day I rode this 15-mile ride on assist level 2. It wasn't much of a workout, the average speed jumped up ~2mph, and used about 13% battery.

You can likely change out the chain ring and move to a 9-speed cassette for more street riding and higher speeds and less likely to break the chain. But if that is the goal, this isn't the right bike. In the NC community, e-mtb bikes are largely not welcomed or not allowed, mostly due to people tearing up the trails with higher power - riding like they would a motorcycle.

Not sure if you have the Ludiv2 controller version or not, but either way, you can set the display to 9 assistance levels.
With the Ludi controller, you can do further adjusting, but on non-ludi, setting the controller to 9 levels, 2 of 9 should be your current 1 of 5.
On the Ludi you can set per mode (Street, Trail, Ludi) to max current/Amps, which is then further split out with <max assistance level> at, well, max = <max current setting>.
I've 'down-tuned' my Trail mode a bit and usually run in level 1 or 2 of 9, with not dissimilar experiences to your ride descriptions.

 

[Johnny]

This bike gets my attention. While I am looking for a lightweight mtb if I go for a regular weight emtb I may think about this one.

A couple of questions:

1. I am interested in the upgraded controller but not interested in the extra power. Just interested in an efficient foc controller with a smoother torque sensor response. How is the efficiency of this controller setup? I realize that some of you actually have mainstream mid drive emtb's too, how does it compare?

2. I am not interested in 1K+ watts for a long time but can it sustain 750W indefinitely without heating?

3. The carbon frame looks nice but is it durable? I am a bit cautious about carbon frames, any safety issues so far(cracks etc.)?

4. The components look pretty good. Yari for example was one of my favourite forks but now Rockshox is switching to even beefier toptubes. How are these components holding up on a trail?

This really can be great for those who are not interested in the bafang ultra levels of power but want a significantly higher output than the mainstream mid drives while keeping the weight and efficiency.

 

[IOUZIP]

I have owned both generations the Luna X1 (non Ludi) and now the X2 (with v2 Ludi controller). The X1 I left with stock suspension (Rockshox) and was able to ride all the trails I needed to. The X2 I switched out the Luna supplied suspension for Fox 38 and Fox X suspension. So upgrades are a good thing. You can set the watts power lower and lower the AMPS to reduce the power output. No issues with the carbon fiber. I try not to compare the Luna X2 with v2 Ludi controller as it is not a fair power comparison to Bosch, Shimano, Brose, etc. I run a lower power setting of 750watt and do just fine. The motor will heat up the more amps you run through it. Depends where you ride.

 

[rtp]

This bike gets my attention. While I am looking for a lightweight mtb if I go for a regular weight emtb I may think about this one.

A couple of questions:

1. I am interested in the upgraded controller but not interested in the extra power. Just interested in an efficient foc controller with a smoother torque sensor response. How is the efficiency of this controller setup? I realize that some of you actually have mainstream mid drive emtb's too, how does it compare?

No comparison IMO. The X2 has a lot more power vs Bosch and the like. The responsiveness with the LudiX2 controller is decent. Hopping on/off my wife's Bosch at 'high power' feels like me in mid-power profile at level 2 of 9. The rampup of added power was probably a bit faster on the X2, but now there are settings to adjust that a bit, and I couldn't tell huge differences in 'feel' and responsiveness other than the added power. Feels nice, IMO.

2. I am not interested in 1K+ watts for a long time but can it sustain 750W indefinitely without heating?

Tough to say IMO, but most bikes aren't really running continuously at peak power either. I really need to get around to screenshooting my current settings, as I forget exactly where I lowered 'Trail' mode max power to (I sent it lower than Luna default), and while I usually run at lower PAS levels, i can pretty much ride 30 miles+ without issue and still having battery. I expect if you were doing nothing but a looong uphill climb, depending on mode and PAS level, you could hit thermal throttling.

3. The carbon frame looks nice but is it durable? I am a bit cautious about carbon frames, any safety issues so far(cracks etc.)?

The frame is a Dengfu E10, which has been around a couple of years - I've seen a very small number of reported frame issues to date and there are a good # of these frames out there. I was also hesitant on the CF frame, but seems to not be a real concern.

4. The components look pretty good. Yari for example was one of my favourite forks but now Rockshox is switching to even beefier toptubes. How are these components holding up on a trail?

This really can be great for those who are not interested in the bafang ultra levels of power but want a significantly higher output than the mainstream mid drives while keeping the weight and efficiency.

The Rockshox variant components and overall are decent. Replaced the shifter for a GX ($50), will get around to replacing the derailleur with GX at some point, replaced the rear shock with as DVO Topaz etc, but they're certainly usable.

 

[Johnny]

The frame is a Dengfu E10, which has been around a couple of years - I've seen a very small number of reported frame issues to date and there are a good # of these frames out there. I was also hesitant on the CF frame, but seems to not be a real concern.

Ah that is good to know. It looks like a nice frame and if they have ironed out the weaknesses than I can look at it favorably.

Is it water/splash resistant? How is the durability so far?
And the noise?

I really like the programming capability and possibility of servicing it myself.

 

[IOUZIP]

Check Out Rob Rides EMTB video where it covers his build of a E10 frame and suspension.

https://www.youtube.com/@RobRidesEMTB/search?query=dengfu

 

[rtp]

Ah that is good to know. It looks like a nice frame and if they have ironed out the weaknesses than I can look at it favorably.

Is it water/splash resistant? How is the durability so far?
And the noise?

Durability has been fine for me and many others. In addition to IOUZip's posted link to Rob's build, there are probably hundreds of documented E10 frame builds on emtb forums. Very few if any reported issues on the frame. The motor uses a 'silent gear' which is a form of polymer material vs steel, and some small number of people, generally running higher power for longer periods of time, have managed to shred that gear over time. This seems to be in the minority, like perhaps 5% of users at a guess. Motor noise to me is fine, not a big deal with the silent gear. A metal gear is also available.

RE: Water resistance, etc. Reality is IMO ALL of the ebikes out there have some deficiencies in real waterproofing, including e.g. Bosch.
In general I don't worry about riding in light to moderate rain, and did a 1000+mile car trip with the bike on the rack through some pretty bad storms without issues. I use silicone grease/di-electric around all of the connectors, and heat-shrink over some of the connectors up front (like the display connector to main hardness).

I really like the programming capability and possibility of servicing it myself.

 

[Johnny]

I also saw that some companies offer M610, is this the new version of m600? Doe anybody know major differences?

 

[IOUZIP]

I also saw that some companies offer M610, is this the new version of m600? Doe anybody know major differences?

No Bafang M610 motor.
See list of Bafang Motors

Products

Bafang description

bafang-e.com

 

[JRA]

No Bafang M610 motor.
See list of Bafang Motors

Products

Bafang description

bafang-e.com

Not yet available but due in the spring. The FLX Weapon is being advertised as having it. A bit lighter and hopefully better access to tuning for individual preference.

 

[rtp]

Not listed on Bafang’s site as of yet, and as mentioned, only seen the FLX Weapon advertised with it.
Considering the recent M510 variant of the M500, am guessing it will be similar, perhaps slightly lighter and slightly more claimed power/torque output.
Like @JRA mentioned, we’re all hoping for more access to configuration/‘programming’ access, but I’m not hopeful there myself.
Unless something truly surprising happens with the M610, I don’t see any way it matters to those considering or owning an X2 with Ludi controller, although it will be interesting to see how it compares to the OE M600 for both replacement motors and new bikes with Bafang firmware and controllers..