Input for long range commuter build?

m@Robertson said:
Looks like this project turned out rather nicely!

I do my own fenders often as not on bikes. You may be in the same boat. That pic above of the dirty, dusty fat bike shows where I normally end up: Using mtb mud guards. Then extend them out a bit with black gorilla tape folded horizontally across the front and back of the short almost-fender to extend it. The tape will last for years despite its soft-ish nature, and will maintain its shape while riding at speed. You can use a much smaller version of that grey body fender and I have found body fenders keep enormous amounts of water off both the bike and the battery.

Here is a pic of a front wheel change I just made on my Bullitt (35mm wide rim to support that 2.4" tire). I'm showing the pic cuz it uses a different style of fender that bolts to the fork crown and doesn't get in the way of tire clearance. I don't use the rear as there is zero clearance so I have sealed the 'bulkhead' behind the tire in other ways. This fender is made by SKS and they have other versions.

View attachment 126150

None of these options will look as clean as what you had.

Get rid of that horrible front chainring as fast as you can afford to do so. Unfortunately the Lekkie rings have gone way up in price but they are still the best bet. Speaking of which, what does your chainline look like? The offset front to back? Thats a big deal for drivetrain longevity. Maybe the biggest. If its deflected it becomes a chainsaw to the drivetrain teeth and of course the chain itself isn't going to last.

Three different derailleur adjustment vids in this link, which is tee'd up a bit so you don't have to scroll much to get to them. The third one is from Park Tool. It takes the longest but its a complete tutorial to start from scratch and get everything perfect.


I would not do a gear sensor at all. I have bikes with and without. I just do a stutter in my cadence and doing so is automatic now. Also redoing the BBSHD settings so it shuts down immediately and starts up soft are really important components to the success of that technique.
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That front fender could work on mine, and possibly a second one (or if they come in other shapes) behind the fork. Will look into that, thanks.

As for the offset, right now chain line is pretty straight onto the 8th gear (of 9) and it seems like I will be using 9th gear for almost all of the time. The 1st, 2nd and even 3rd are quite off, I don't go below 4th and that is only when I start. I could offset the chain ring (or any chain ring) for a totally straight line on 9th gear, though I may need to sacrifice 4th gear too for that... 🤔

Thx for the adjustment links, I will certainly look at that. Same with the motor settings, I haven't even started to dig into that yet.
 
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4speed said:
As for the offset, right now chain line is pretty straight onto the 8th gear (of 9) and it seems like I will be using 9th gear for almost all of the time. The 1st, 2nd and even 3rd are quite off, I don't go below 4th and that is only when I start. I could offset the chain ring (or any chain ring) for a totally straight line on 9th gear, though I may need to sacrifice 4th gear too for that... 🤔
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Welcome to fine tuning the gearing on a mid drive :D Sounds like you are happiest on the smaller cogs, so consider a couple options when you are willing to go there:

In the back, swap in a bigger rear cluster. That won't help your chain alignment. But since the rear cluster is larger you are making bigger jumps, so you will have a lower gear available to you at the same position. I just did this with my hill-climbing Mongoose Envoy. Swapped out a 12-32T Shimano HG200-9 for a 11-46T Microshift Advent. I can't get to the biggest cogs either - because of an aftermarket 2-legged kickstand of all things. That cluster is pinned together and has cogs made of solid, hardened steel (no spiders) so its best-case in terms of mid drive durability. And cheap at just a hair under $40.

In the front, you can play some games though with a different chainring. What happens if you go inboard just a bit with more offset, and add teeth? Do it right and the cog in back that yields ideal cadence goes one higher up. Which means you can start to think about giving up on the smallest cog you have - which is only a good thing on a mid drive. This is how I wound up with a 52T ring on my Bullitt. On my 11s cluster I need to be 3 gears in to get straight chainline and ideal cadence on flat ground.
 
m@Robertson said:
Welcome to fine tuning the gearing on a mid drive :D Sounds like you are happiest on the smaller cogs, so consider a couple options when you are willing to go there:

In the back, swap in a bigger rear cluster. That won't help your chain alignment. But since the rear cluster is larger you are making bigger jumps, so you will have a lower gear available to you at the same position. I just did this with my hill-climbing Mongoose Envoy. Swapped out a 12-32T Shimano HG200-9 for a 11-46T Microshift Advent. I can't get to the biggest cogs either - because of an aftermarket 2-legged kickstand of all things. That cluster is pinned together and has cogs made of solid, hardened steel (no spiders) so its best-case in terms of mid drive durability. And cheap at just a hair under $40.

In the front, you can play some games though with a different chainring. What happens if you go inboard just a bit with more offset, and add teeth? Do it right and the cog in back that yields ideal cadence goes one higher up. Which means you can start to think about giving up on the smallest cog you have - which is only a good thing on a mid drive. This is how I wound up with a 52T ring on my Bullitt. On my 11s cluster I need to be 3 gears in to get straight chainline and ideal cadence on flat ground.
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Interesting suggestions, I will most certainly consider all of them! 👍:)
 
mikeschn said:
See the red boxed targets below...
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That screen on that site is exactly the one I use to try and figure this sort of thing out. Set your chainrings as '42,52' and it will give you both data sets one on top of the other on the same screen.

To further muddy the waters: If you can get to the third cog in, that usually puts you on the pinned-together section of your cluster (assuming you are using one that is pinned). Those cogs distribute the force of the motor across more of the cassette body versus digging a channel into the cassette body on their own. Keeps your cassette body alive for longer (not necessary but still helpful if you have a steel cassette body).
 
mikeschn said:
I am starting to think about that too!

At my normal cadence of 60-70, I am on the smallest sprocket. By changing my chainring from 42 to 52, I can get off the smallest sprocket. See the red boxed targets below...

View attachment 126244



View attachment 126245
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Interesting. I was just showing @m@Robertson an example from yesterday. I installed a Box 3, 9sp, 11-46 group set on an electric Specialized Pitch. It wouldn't hit 2 and 1. Too much cross chaining. Then I installed a 10mm offset, N/W, 42-t ring from Eco. It hit all gears but would drop off the front in 1. So I painted a front derailleur black and used it as a chain guide. Works perfectly now. That is about a 420% range.

1655585943819.png
1655586139814.jpeg
 
Interesting bags on that Pitch. I need some storage bags on my bike... I may have to try some of those!
 
mikeschn said:
Interesting bags on that Pitch. I need some storage bags on my bike... I may have to try some of those!
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I think that he got them from that large river in South America. Those RockBros pedals are from there. They are super nice and dirt cheap. It is just too easy to order from that place. I can order at ten PM in my underwear and they arrive at my workshop at eleven AM the next morning. I put black nail polish on the logo of those pedals and tap it with a piece of foam for matte texture.
1655591770059.png
 
So, to sum this thread up... :)

This was the designated victim, a Cannondale of unverified model from somewhere around 2004-2006 afaik. Alloy frame, 28" wheels with SRAM hubs and 28-622 tires. Avid Juicy 3 hydraulic 160 mm disc brakes, SRAM X-7 3x9 gear, 11-34 cassette.
cykeldå.jpg


Now with...
BBSHD with P850C panel
48V 24,5 Ah battery
Shimano pedals
Schwalbe Energizer Plus Performance 37-622 (E-50 rated)
Wider fenders to fit the 37 tires
New brake rotors, pads and chain
Brooks B17 saddle
Ergon GP3 grips
60 mm mirror
Lezyne Strip Alert rear light
cykelnu.jpg


I am quite happy with the choice of BBSHD over BBS02, not for the actual required power but for the extra headroom and apparently better cooling.
The Ergon GP3 grips make a huge difference for me, as does the Brooks B17 saddle. The mirror needs a better placement of course, wherever that is going to be, but just having it is a great benefit imho.
I would have gone with 40-622 tires for comfort - and I actually did at first, but they were just too high and touched the frame. The 37 mm is 3 mm lower and still E-50 rated.

Down the line I may consider a damped seatpost and a narrow click-on bag from local manufacturer AVS.
 
tomjasz said:
Nice build. Gotta be a very fast bike. The BBSHD can run as a one speed and take incredible abuse.
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Target was 40 km/h or 25 mph sustained (and, ideally, trip average) for 30+30 km and it does that. ;)
Almost all my commuting route is paved, low traffic, smooth country road and fast cycling. But the last few km is dedicated bike lane/path, paved but for several reasons not fit for speed, and that inevitabely brings down the average by an amount that I can't make up for on the rest of the route. But I can live with that.
 
4speed said:
Down the line I may consider a damped seatpost and a narrow click-on bag from local manufacturer AVS.
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I eventually settled for an eeSilk+ damped seatpost from Cane Creek. The difference is not huge but certainly noticeable - small cracks and patches in the asphalt that you may not even notice at 15 km/h takes a toll on both my spine and the bike's wheels in 40-45 km/h. I would say the eeSilk+ was worth its money for me.

Overall the bike has performed very well so far and even beaten its design goals. I do the 30+30 km commute at around 40 km/h average and rarely ever get home with less than 50% battery.
 
4speed said:
Thanks for that input! Because of the parts issue mentioned, and compatibility with controllers etc, I hope to be able to decide on as common motor as possible.
@indianajo , I will not need to stop-and-go at all between home and work, and no need to keep the battery on the bike when I leave it. As for brakes, I really think I can do with rim brakes. Traffic is really sparse and most of the distance is countryside. Good input on the motors. Road is essentially flat and my aim is to be able to sustain around 28 mph.
@tomjasz , did you build that wheel yourself, replacing the hub? Difficult to get it right?
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why that fast? wind drag is going to start being an issue you are going to be adding more power then you like probably,that being said if you are going hell for leather each ride you can probably find a dd motor that will fill the bill,I have had nice 1200 watt dd motors that seemed amply strong,28 mph was the about the top end though at top speed the battery is going away fast,get a nice 10-14 ah battery carry a spare one of equal power density and ride the thing till exhaustion install spare battery and scoot back home,that is going to get you honest range( to a certain extent)YMMV or just lose about 10 mph and extend range .
 
4speed said:
Having gathered information for some time I just recently found out about this forum that appears like THE ebike forum - especially for DIY which is not a big thing in my neck of the woods. :)
I am considering swapping diesel for pedals, for commuting 30 km one way. That will not happen without electricity since I am nowhere near fit and do not expect to be able to keep up a speed that covers the distance in reasonable time. Also I need to be able to actually work when I get there...

Distance is 30 km, essentially flat but headwind at times. I am around 200 lbs and need a minimum of baggage. Reasonable time for me is around 45 mins at the most, so ideally need to sustain at least 40 km/h (25 mph).
From the Trip Simulator at Grin webpage I realize that this will take a bit of battery. I can charge at work but that of course also means twice the cycle count. I am free to choose motor type, bike model etc and optimize for this specific application and this is where I would appreciate experienced input.

I lean towards a hybrid type bike or possibly mtb, with a half-forward riding position, 26-28". For simplicity I am happy with rim brakes.
As for motor - I believe that a direct drive hub motor would be nice for several reasons, but I really want to avoid a large hub that draws attention. Hence rear wheel would seem better = more discreet. Or a geared hub motor in front, IF they stand the wear in this application. Motor weight is not a big issue though.
Mid motor might also be an alternative but since I will be going long distance with continous fairly high power I suspect that chain/gear wear may become an issue.
I believe that 750 W or so would do the job but here again I am out in the deep end. Better to go for smaller motor at higher load or the opposite?

Maybe the biggest question for me is if battery requirement will be the killing factor, both money- and size-wise. Maybe it is too big a bite to chew...

Budget is of course an issue too. Aim is for drive kit in total (just kit, not bike) not to exceed EUR 1000 (roughly USD 1000), does that sound doable or must I step it up?

If/when this project comes to real life, I will of course share the proceedings. :)
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You might want to explore the fat-tire situation. If you do, I wrote some stuff up a while back for reference. Most of it is still accurate.

forums.electricbikereview.com

fat bike advice to my eye doc

Hi gang, I wrote the letter below to summarize my thoughts and information on fat ebikes to my eye doctor who’s interested in going down the same route I have. I thought I’d post it here to see if anyone feels there’s elaboration/correction I should make. I express a lot of my fairly novice...
forums.electricbikereview.com forums.electricbikereview.com

edit: never mind, I see I’m late to the party.. :) Good luck with your build.
 
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