Merle Nelson
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Anything that can get a person on their Hydra riding and having fun more quickly in a reliable way, it goes here.
Hydra Quick Start Thread
- Thread starter Merle Nelson
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Merle Nelson
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I've been away from bikes for 4o years and just back interested in the last 9 months. If I post anything that is bad info and am corrected I'll add an edit to my post. More to follow.
Who has some thoughts on getting going without screwing something up on that beautiful hunk of machine that just arrived in the well packaged box?
Who has some thoughts on getting going without screwing something up on that beautiful hunk of machine that just arrived in the well packaged box?
Merle Nelson
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In watching videos I see some recommend putting grease on the threads of your pedals when assembling. It was spoken of being used like the product Never Cease. Well, ok, so I did that.
I took tire pressure up about the mid range of what the sidewall said - just as a place to start and try.
Checked torque on all the suspension bolts and most everything.
Had seen Kindernay videos that said the K hubs were shipped empty and you needed to add oil before use. So I took one of the three bottles I had asked WW to include with the bike and added it. OOOPS! It didn't go in that well and one of the kind members here said I had better drain it and re-fill with the proper amount. I now suspect the K hub was shipped to WW empty but they fill it as a part of assembly. (Tomorrow I will drain the hub trying to check for if it has double the oil. Regardless, I will then be assured I have filled it with only the proper amount - one of the 30ml bottles.)
The bike feels incredible. Brakes are amazing, Magura 7, the suspension feels just the right kind of soft and absorbing.
What will it be like when I actually ride it?
I took tire pressure up about the mid range of what the sidewall said - just as a place to start and try.
Checked torque on all the suspension bolts and most everything.
Had seen Kindernay videos that said the K hubs were shipped empty and you needed to add oil before use. So I took one of the three bottles I had asked WW to include with the bike and added it. OOOPS! It didn't go in that well and one of the kind members here said I had better drain it and re-fill with the proper amount. I now suspect the K hub was shipped to WW empty but they fill it as a part of assembly. (Tomorrow I will drain the hub trying to check for if it has double the oil. Regardless, I will then be assured I have filled it with only the proper amount - one of the 30ml bottles.)
The bike feels incredible. Brakes are amazing, Magura 7, the suspension feels just the right kind of soft and absorbing.
What will it be like when I actually ride it?
Merle Nelson
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Oh, one question right off the bat, does anyone have all the functions figured out on the Hydra control pad? On, off, etc, etc.
Merle Nelson
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Good call probably. The next noob could know.
EDIT: Yes it looked like twice the 30ml amount sent as future oil change stock came out of the hub. Drained it well, put 30ml back in - am loving that IGH.
EDIT: Yes it looked like twice the 30ml amount sent as future oil change stock came out of the hub. Drained it well, put 30ml back in - am loving that IGH.
Last edited:
bexamous
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Google for Bafang DPC18 manual, eg:
Merle Nelson
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Ahh, you're incredible. Thank you.
Merle Nelson
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Everyone else would probably know but I had to think about it for a few seconds - take the clear protective stickers off the sides of the motor air holes.
Merle Nelson
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The Hydra turns on at 750 watts in ECO mode. Even so, the wheel comes off the ground if you hit the throttle. Start out easy.
Deacon Blues
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Actually, I said it takes approximately one half of a full revolution for the torque sensor to kick in. The reason why it's so noticeable to me is the bike is big and heavy, so getting it going, especially on a slight incline, can be a bit of a chore.
The other reason I noticed the power delay is my Cannondale Lefty 3, with a Bosch gen 4 motor, only takes approximately one quarter revolution for the torque to kick in.
The Lefty 3 also weighs a lot less than my UC Pro. 39 vs 65 pounds.
The other reason I noticed the power delay is my Cannondale Lefty 3, with a Bosch gen 4 motor, only takes approximately one quarter revolution for the torque to kick in.
The Lefty 3 also weighs a lot less than my UC Pro. 39 vs 65 pounds.
This is with Archon controller or Bafang??
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
Archon.
Are others seeing the same?
@JRA - are you seeing that much delay on your ultra?
I don’t have an ultra to compare to but my X2 is near instant to the point I want to slow down the response a bit. I wouldn’t expect the Ludi vs Archone controller hardware to be hugely different (only so many suitable embedded chips out there) but also would expect if anything, the Ultra to have the same or better / higher sample rate than the M600… maybe configuration?
??
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
It's noticeable on my UC Pro because the bike is big and heavy and it takes a far amount of 'oomph' to get it going.
I should try gearing down to a larger cassette cog before I stop. I usually gear down a bit, but I may have to go down a couple more gears to compensate for the bike's size/weight.
I should try gearing down to a larger cassette cog before I stop. I usually gear down a bit, but I may have to go down a couple more gears to compensate for the bike's size/weight.
Merle Nelson
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Sample rate on the Arcon was spoken of in a recent Bolton podcast with Pushkar. (9000 +/- per second) I doubt it's any hinderance to effectively starting off.
My new experience with the Ultra and Arcon controller has me finding no fault with it. I will do something with the throttle to smooth it out. And I'll either learn to smooth out my application of pressure to the pedals or just use Evo level 1 and 2 till I'm more used to the bike. ECO 3 I keep producing front wheel lift.
bexamous
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FWIW with bike in the air and in Sport5 to make motor turning on super obvious, using hand to turn pedals it takes ~1/3 revolution for motor to turn on (Hydra w/Innotrace). I would guess this is intentional, there is no reason it would need that much movement. But this is why VESC-based controllers will overtake Innotrace... do you want motor to ramp up power with less movemen on Innotrace? -- Sorry can't do that. VESC option will be there or source is there for anyone to add an option. Can see rate of updates for Innotrace controller... its basically a fixed target. VESC is improving and IMO you can definitely argue its superior to day, but if if not its just matter of time until its surpassed.
Combining Deacon, Merl's and Bex's comments in one..
Either way, it should be solve-able/adjustable in software - whether or not those settings are user exposed...dunno. I went looking at one point for Pushkar's Archon programming video but I think it's offline now?
If it's intentional, it's kind of weird seeming to me - I'd prefer something like 10* of rotation but then the ability to control the ramp time and/or multipliers (e.g. sensor reads A, motor outputs X, A+<something> motor outputs > X, etc.).
Folks with Hydras and programming access - are you all seeing 1/3rd to 1/2 crank rotation before power is kicking in?
Does the Archon consider both cadence and torque sensors or only the latter (pretty sure LudiV2 uses only Torque sensor currently..FWIW)
Note - none of this, at least from me, is intended as 'Controller X is better than Controller Y.' I've worked in a similar field so have interest, and honestly, I think the user-side of software has a ways to go to get to 'exposing the right amount of configurabilty for those wanting it, but generally feeling A-OK with defaults' etc.
I wasn't expecting the sample rate to be an issue - may re-watch the Bolton bit from curiosity (have worked with embedded systems and high freq sampling previously for a while), and actually I'd be surprised if it's sampling the torque sensor that often.
Either way, it should be solve-able/adjustable in software - whether or not those settings are user exposed...dunno. I went looking at one point for Pushkar's Archon programming video but I think it's offline now?
If it's intentional, it's kind of weird seeming to me - I'd prefer something like 10* of rotation but then the ability to control the ramp time and/or multipliers (e.g. sensor reads A, motor outputs X, A+<something> motor outputs > X, etc.).
Folks with Hydras and programming access - are you all seeing 1/3rd to 1/2 crank rotation before power is kicking in?
Does the Archon consider both cadence and torque sensors or only the latter (pretty sure LudiV2 uses only Torque sensor currently..FWIW)
Note - none of this, at least from me, is intended as 'Controller X is better than Controller Y.' I've worked in a similar field so have interest, and honestly, I think the user-side of software has a ways to go to get to 'exposing the right amount of configurabilty for those wanting it, but generally feeling A-OK with defaults' etc.
bexamous
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BTW I got the 1/3 rotation with bike in air and wheel starting at a dead stop. Riding bike its harder to tell, it may be the same 1/3 rotation or it may be less. It may be safety thing where if your bike is not moving, and maybe your standing next to it and your leg touches pedals and moves them a little, you don't want motor kicking in accidently like that. I should try again on stand with rear wheel spinning slowly. -- Although this wouldn't help issue Deacon mentions where you're on a hill at a stop and want to start going.. this is the one situation where throttle makes sense to me, IMO.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
Once the snow goes I'll have to try starting off from a stop, with the chain on a larger cog for easier pedalling, to see how soon the motor/torque kicks in.
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