Hydra Batterie Question

[JRA]

The Z1 battery is 17.5ah x 48v which is 840wh's. Easily fits into the DengFu frame that supposedly Luna "ripped off" from WW that was never proven.

I have had 52v and 48v batteries and while a [email protected] hot off the charger does have a little more power on tap than the [email protected] it is hardly noticeable. Someone above claimed that that a 52v battery on empty has more power than a 48v which is BS. The only batteries I have noticed that display this sort of LVP effect are ones with 2170 cells over 18650 cells and even then it makes no difference between 48 and 52v.

52v is not the high po upgrade that it is sometimes portrayed as. When you get over 60v and onwards yes it can be but there are good reasons that consumer bikes don't use them.

 

[BarnBoy]

Ok @JRA, you call BS. How about I show you some math then??? First are you aware that POWER is a function of the SQUARE of Voltage with a fixed load (or current squared!)??

The equation for power is P=VI. Ohms law say V=IR or I=V/R. Let’s substitute I in the power equation to get:

P=V^2/R…..

So the 100% charged batteries for 13s and 14s are 54.6 and 58.8V respectively. Yes the “p” sets Ah but “s” determines the voltage!!! So the power potentials are 2981/R and 3457/R. And you say no difference here??? Your observation may be correct because your Z1 is limited to 1500W on that 48V pack. Where my Hydra is 2300W. So math proves there is a difference and my statement was not BS; maybe exaggerated a bit!!

And about the theft proof, I showed the E22 Dengfu sells on Alibaba is NOT the same E22 as my Hydra nor your Z1. These differences in the rear were discussed publicly long before Luna entered the equation. Only Pushkar and Karl know the truth. If Pushkar says in a public forum he was robbed by Luna, that opens him up for a slander law suit from Luna. I have not found anything from Luna saying they deny these claims. To me the silence speaks for itself….
-BB

 

[JRA]

Thing is I could care less about running at 2300w and see no benefit for eBikes to do so. Mainly because I am more interested in range over power I guess. So as stated I have used both voltages in the 1000w+ range only and for that they are on par, except hot off the charger. But for range desired I usually use an even amount of watts from the start to achieve my goals anyway.

So your "math" is correct for your needs and I am glad that you have what you want/need. As far as how the WW club thinks you guys are on your own. Seems like a bit of a train wreck to me.

 

[bexamous]

Generally bigger battery can put out more watts.. eg Samsung 35E is rated for 13A non-continous. 13s5p pack that's 13*3.7*5*13=3126.5watts. 14s4p that's 14*3.7*4*13=2693watts. That's what 35Es can do within spec.

Interestingly these packs have a 30A BMS, though if you look at settings over current is set to 40A. I'm not sure how Hydra is really putting out 2500watts. I guess you can overcurrent for a bit, but without overcurrenting, 58.8v*40a=2352watts, and no way is a pack going to be at 58.8v with a 10a load on cells. I'm not too concerned with this though, I don't care too much about peak power.

Anyways regardless of what battery is rated for, the motor can easily put a huge load on it and its always going to be controller deciding how much power to allow... eg Innotrace with same pack at two different states of charge putting out 3500watts: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=102068&start=50#p1582452

These numbers are a little messy, peak load should produce min voltage and peak amps:
53.08v*65.89a=3497.44watts
50.86v*68.22a=3469.66watts

Lower voltage just pulls more amps. Gotta remember we're not seeing 100% of what pack+motor can do, the controller is liming power from probably >3000 watts down to 100-2500watts depending on current settings. Within reason controller /should/ be able to compensate to hide voltage differences. It seems like Innotrace does it to some degree when up against 3500watt limit, but in X1 Tool all the settings are amps, not watts. Ideally those would be watts.

 

[TDA78]

Interestingly these packs have a 30A BMS, though if you look at settings over current is set to 40A. I'm not sure how Hydra is really putting out 2500watts. I guess you can overcurrent for a bit, but without overcurrenting, 58.8v*40a=2352watts, and no way is a pack going to be at 58.8v with a 10a load on cells.

My BMS came with the overcurrent set to 50A and I've hit that limit 3 times! The battery was fully charged and the voltage sagged to 46V. That's 2300W before the BMS shut down.

 

[bexamous]

On one hand I'd be a little wary of putting 50A though 30A BMS, though I know with SurRon some of them put like >70A though 40A BMS or something. Probably just comes down to BMS and what mosfets they actually have and how well they're cooled more than the sticker on them.

 

[TDA78]

Batteries NFG.

This is the finest 1500W bike on the planet. I still don't want anything else.

 

[Merle Nelson]

I feel the same way. My Hydra is incredible in every way.

 

[Acme]

I feel the same way. My Hydra is incredible in every way.

I feel exactly the same way. My Hydra‘s rock. Yes the battery could give me more range but there’s just nothing else available they can do with this bike can do. If I’m going long distances I carry an extra. it’s that simple. Soon there will be bikes out with 27100 / 1000wh packs and we all talk about the old days like the guys who were the first Levo owners with 430wh batteries.
I’m having the time of my life. How someone could owin one of Pushkar’s bikes and not be grinning ear to ear is beyond me. I had another problem the other day. I called Pushkar, he called me back shortly there after and the problem was rectified with a replacement part on the way. I love talking with Pushkar as he is as passionate about the bikes as I am so I have to keep reminding myself not to take up too much of his time. I don’t visit the forum as often as I used to because there’s a lot more talk about the negative than positive, but I’m hopeful it will all change back soon.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Yes, when I had Pushkar on the phone to order and pay the rest of the balance I was very aware he is passionately generous with his time.

 

[Zachdds]

On one hand I'd be a little wary of putting 50A though 30A BMS, though I know with SurRon some of them put like >70A though 40A BMS or something. Probably just comes down to BMS and what mosfets they actually have and how well they're cooled more than the sticker on them.

I am surprised with this. Batterys do catch on fire. Houses have burned down. Usually it is something wrong with the battery due to hitting it or something, but a short is always possible with that much voltage. I could easily see some insurance company going after the battery being run out of spec in order to not have to pay out the money.

Been waiting on truck to be fixed by insurance since Oct 7. Thought it was done today but nope wrong part. Insurance has been bugger the whole time.

 

[scrambler]

. I could easily see some insurance company going after the battery being run out of spec in order to not have to pay out the money.

If the battery burns down, I doubt anyone could prove anything about how it was being used at the time.
There would not be anything left to diagnose

 

[Zachdds]

Yeah. That’s the problem. Most fires can be tracked back to a source. Why it happened would then be for the attorneys. Pointing to something being made out of code so to speak would be the easy place to start.

 

[Acme]

It’s always best to charger batteries outside or in a fireproof box like a barbecue.

 

[Ebike Addict]

I feel exactly the same way. My Hydra‘s rock. Yes the battery could give me more range but there’s just nothing else available they can do with this bike can do. If I’m going long distances I carry an extra. it’s that simple. Soon there will be bikes out with 27100 / 1000wh packs and we all talk about the old days like the guys who were the first Levo owners with 430wh batteries.
I’m having the time of my life. How someone could owin one of Pushkar’s bikes and not be grinning ear to ear is beyond me. I had another problem the other day. I called Pushkar, he called me back shortly there after and the problem was rectified with a replacement part on the way. I love talking with Pushkar as he is as passionate about the bikes as I am so I have to keep reminding myself not to take up too much of his time. I don’t visit the forum as often as I used to because there’s a lot more talk about the negative than positive, but I’m hopeful it will all change back soon.

Hi ACME and thank you for your post. As a recent owner of a Hydra I also share your views on the bike; it is in a class by itself. The practical range remains a concern for me as I would ideally like to take the bike for treks that can easily exceeds 60 miles. Would you know of any bags (either backpacks or attached to the bike) that are designed to carry an extra battery?

 

[rtp]

Hi ACME and thank you for your post. As a recent owner of a Hydra I also share your views on the bike; it is in a class by itself. The practical range remains a concern for me as I would ideally like to take the bike for treks that can easily exceeds 60 miles. Would you know of any bags (either backpacks or attached to the bike) that are designed to carry an extra battery?

Amazon.com

Expensive but dedicated channel for battery.
I have a different EVOC bag and they seem to make overall good quality gear…

 

[Ebike Addict]

Amazon.com

Expensive but dedicated channel for battery.
I have a different EVOC bag and they seem to make overall good quality gear…

Thank you for the link. This is really very interesting!!

 

[rtp]

Thank you for the link. This is really very interesting!!

They get good reviews and have a CE-rated back protector built-n…honestly not a bad idea if carrying a battery on your back!
I have this one and can barely feel it when loaded with a hydration bladder, tools etc.

Amazon.com

 

[Zachdds]

It looks like the hydra is switching to the 48v system. I am guessing it’s specs will match the Luna one mentioned above. It will allow for a larger capacity.

I assume the 52v battery might be hard to track down. Are they interchangeable on the hydra?

 

[bexamous]

It looks like the hydra is switching to the 48v system

Why do you say that?