Hydra Batterie Question
- Thread starter Acid
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Merle Nelson
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- USA
Welcome to EBR Acid. I will be interested to see this too. If no one posts one up my Hydra and extra battery are on the way to me now and I will take a picture.
14s5p Samsung 35E
I had the battery open to add an enable switch and you're right, it's 14s4p. We've been lied to. It's not 17 Ah. Now it makes sense why the BMS indicates a 14 Ah battery.
Merle Nelson
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- USA
It's in print somewhere that the battery was downsized - I believe. I became aware of it a month or two ago and am pretty sure I read it somewhere in the WW Forum.
I also believe there was a plausible reason for it. I remember being disappointed that we lost a little Ah but, what can you do.
I also believe there was a plausible reason for it. I remember being disappointed that we lost a little Ah but, what can you do.
JRA
Well-Known Member
Word is that GBK in the UK is working on upgrade and stock batteries in a few sizes for the DengFu M620 frame like the Hydra/Z1 has. No word on V but bikes can run on both 48/52v. Losing 3.5ah on an Ultra bike is not as good as gaining 3.5ah cause they are apt to be hard on the wh/mi's. Bright side is that the bike weighs less because of it!
bexamous
Active Member
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- USA
WTF 14s4p? That's huge difference from 14s5p. Its still advertised as 800wH? Its more of a 700wH pack. If you want to eg compare to a Bosch 625wH pack, Hydra has a 700wH. A 13s5p would have been preferrable, if 14s5p wasn't possible. Man this is super annoying.
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BarnBoy
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- Pleasanton, CA
Ahh folks, please use the search tools and see what Pushkar has stated on the forum with “14Ah” and “17Ah” searches on his posts. The UCPro has a Shark like battery that is 17Ah mounted external on the down tube. The battery on the Hydra is 14Ah and inside the down tube…
Example search:
electricbikereview.com
@bexamous i know you and others are disappointed with this news and yes I too see the bad advertisement on WW saying this is 800Wh. But if Pushkar was fibbing about 17Ah, wouldn’t he do a Marketing spin saying 884Wh or round to 900Wh??? I suspect this is a future battery that is being worked on and mentioned (see searches!). But regarding your 14s4p -vs- 13s5p; how would you get the extra 9 batteries in there??? Clearly the Hydra Black is 13s4p. I have tried Ultra and non-Ultra bikes with a 13s config (48V) and think the performance is the same as my 14s pack when on empty! I can tell when I am low voltage as performance is meh and the power display no longer pegs……
Thus why the Hydra Black doesn’t have 2.3Kw option….
52V times 14Ah (a Samsung IRL18650 is 3.5Ah per cell) is 728Wh….(roundup error?? IDK!)
-BB
Example search:
Search results for query: 14ah
electricbikereview.com
@bexamous i know you and others are disappointed with this news and yes I too see the bad advertisement on WW saying this is 800Wh. But if Pushkar was fibbing about 17Ah, wouldn’t he do a Marketing spin saying 884Wh or round to 900Wh??? I suspect this is a future battery that is being worked on and mentioned (see searches!). But regarding your 14s4p -vs- 13s5p; how would you get the extra 9 batteries in there??? Clearly the Hydra Black is 13s4p. I have tried Ultra and non-Ultra bikes with a 13s config (48V) and think the performance is the same as my 14s pack when on empty! I can tell when I am low voltage as performance is meh and the power display no longer pegs……
Thus why the Hydra Black doesn’t have 2.3Kw option….
52V times 14Ah (a Samsung IRL18650 is 3.5Ah per cell) is 728Wh….(roundup error?? IDK!)
-BB
BarnBoy
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- Pleasanton, CA
That was old web page info I compiled from my notes. Please use the latest web page info. Thus the “Unofficial “ title! Thank you for bringing this error in my Unofficial post to my attention. I will try to fix that post and that of the Helios. But this was clearly a copy past error from the UCPro battery specs….
-BB
@Zachdds -clearly I have upset you. I am sorry for that!!! Was not my intent….
-BB
@Zachdds -clearly I have upset you. I am sorry for that!!! Was not my intent….
bexamous
Active Member
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- USA
Honestly I never really thought it out, bikes with Bosch motors having 625wH packs and Hydra offered 800wH pack.. 30% more capacity, great. That was literally the throught process. I didn't really think was it a 14p4s or 14p5s pack or how it got to 800wH.. but yeah like math doesn't really add up if you think about it.
With Samsung 35E cells, 12.6wH being the high end, I'd expect 14p5s to have 882wH or 14p4s to be 705wH. 800wH never really made sense, but for 14p4s to be 800wH that's 14.2wH/cell.. no 18650 is going be near 14wH/cell... this is closer to 21700 cells.
With Samsung 35E cells, 12.6wH being the high end, I'd expect 14p5s to have 882wH or 14p4s to be 705wH. 800wH never really made sense, but for 14p4s to be 800wH that's 14.2wH/cell.. no 18650 is going be near 14wH/cell... this is closer to 21700 cells.
bexamous
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- USA
scrambler
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- Bay Area, CA
A couple of data points
The max cell capacity with 18650 is 3.5Ah (Samsung 35E) to 3.6Ah (Panasonic NCR18650G)
At 4P that is 14Ah to 14.4 Ah for the Pack.
A lot of battery providers use 3.7V as the Voltage used to determine the voltage pack and its capacity, I find that a bit misleading as the nominal Voltage of these cells is really 3.6V
Using 3.7V a 14S - 4P pack using Samsung 35E is declared 51.8V x 14Ah = 725Wh when it is probably more 50.4V x 14Ah = 706Wh
Using 3.7V a 13S - 5P pack using Samsung 35E is declared 48.1V x 17.5Ah = 842Wh when it is probably more 46.8V x 17.5Ah = 819Wh
The other Important element is the max power you need to make available.
A Samsung 35E cell has a max sustained of 8Amp and a peak of 14A
8A means 32Amp for a 4P pack, and 40Amp for a 5P pack
At 3.6V
On a 14S - 4P pack that translates to a max Continuous of 1613W and peak of 2822W
On a 13S - 5P pack that translates to a max continuous of 1872W and peak of 3226W
At 3.7V
On a 14S - 4P pack that translates to a max Continuous of 1658W and peak of 2900W
On a 13S - 5P pack that translates to a max continuous of 1924W and peak of 3367W
The max cell capacity with 18650 is 3.5Ah (Samsung 35E) to 3.6Ah (Panasonic NCR18650G)
At 4P that is 14Ah to 14.4 Ah for the Pack.
A lot of battery providers use 3.7V as the Voltage used to determine the voltage pack and its capacity, I find that a bit misleading as the nominal Voltage of these cells is really 3.6V
Using 3.7V a 14S - 4P pack using Samsung 35E is declared 51.8V x 14Ah = 725Wh when it is probably more 50.4V x 14Ah = 706Wh
Using 3.7V a 13S - 5P pack using Samsung 35E is declared 48.1V x 17.5Ah = 842Wh when it is probably more 46.8V x 17.5Ah = 819Wh
The other Important element is the max power you need to make available.
A Samsung 35E cell has a max sustained of 8Amp and a peak of 14A
8A means 32Amp for a 4P pack, and 40Amp for a 5P pack
At 3.6V
On a 14S - 4P pack that translates to a max Continuous of 1613W and peak of 2822W
On a 13S - 5P pack that translates to a max continuous of 1872W and peak of 3226W
At 3.7V
On a 14S - 4P pack that translates to a max Continuous of 1658W and peak of 2900W
On a 13S - 5P pack that translates to a max continuous of 1924W and peak of 3367W
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