How many amps does your battery deliver?

[SLONomad]

I have an eHora AM100 with a 350W motor and 48V/10.4AH battery. In throttle only mode the battery can deliver 20 Ah to the motor, but in PAS mode, it tops out a 6 Ah. These numbers are all reported on the controller display as I ride. This results in mediocre performance when climbing hills. Those of you with other bikes.... do you get similar numbers? I am wondering if the controller is defective or just not programmed right. I know a 350W motor can do better if it could get more juice from the battery.

 

[ElevenAD]

a 350watt hub motor is going to be a bad hill climber,not enough power.

 

[SLONomad]

a 350watt hub motor is going to be a bad hill climber,not enough power.

True, but it can do a whole lot better than it does. My wife has a Class 2 e-bike with a 350W front hub motor. She gives it full throttle while pedaling and easily beats me up the hills. I also have a throttle that can provide a high current, but as soon as I start pedaling, the throttle control switches off and PAS mode kicks in, reducing the current boost to 30% of capacity. And the hills I am talking about are not that steep, around 10% grade.

 

[ElevenAD]

True, but it can do a whole lot better than it does. My wife has a Class 2 e-bike with a 350W front hub motor. She gives it full throttle while pedaling and easily beats me up the hills. I also have a throttle that can provide a high current, but as soon as I start pedaling, the throttle control switches off and PAS mode kicks in, reducing the current boost to 30% of capacity. And the hills I am talking about are not that steep, around 10% grade.

uugh, pedal assist overriding throttle sounds like a nightmare! maybe this has something to do with the regenerative PAS system eahora use?

 

[harryS]

First, Ah and amps are different units. An ampere (amp) is a measure of how many electrons per second are flowing thru a wire, An amp-hour (AH) will tell you many electrons were stored up in your battery and how long before you run out of them. 10 Ah means you can get 10 amps for one hour, or 1 amp for 10 hours, or any multiple in between like 5 amps for 2 hours. .

If your throttle can deliver 20 amps to the motor, that is 48V x 20A = 960 watts, which is not bad. Use the throttle and the highest PAS to climb your hills.

Your PAS only doing 6 amps is by design. A lot of owners of other brands complain about their pedal assist being too powerful. In my opinion, the smarter companies limit the current in the lower PAS levels so the bike starts out easier. You switch to higher PAS when you need more speed.

If all of that is still not enough, you need a bigger bike. Direct drivemotors don't climb as well as a similar sized geared motor. That's just gearing. But they can spin faster on flat ground, and you get regen braking.

 

[SLONomad]

First, Ah and amps are different units. An ampere (amp) is a measure of how many electrons per second are flowing thru a wire, An amp-hour (AH) will tell you many electrons were stored up in your battery and how long before you run out of them. 10 Ah means you can get 10 amps for one hour, or 1 amp for 10 hours, or any multiple in between like 5 amps for 2 hours. .

If your throttle can deliver 20 amps to the motor, that is 48V x 20A = 960 watts, which is not bad. Use the throttle and the highest PAS to climb your hills.

Your PAS only doing 6 amps is by design. A lot of owners of other brands complain about their pedal assist being too powerful. In my opinion, the smarter companies limit the current in the lower PAS levels so the bike starts out easier. You switch to higher PAS when you need more speed.

If all of that is still not enough, you need a bigger bike. Direct drivemotors don't climb as well as a similar sized geared motor. That's just gearing. But they can spin faster on flat ground, and you get regen braking.

Thanks for the explanation of Ah and amps. I would have thought that current from battery to motor is measured in amps like you suggest. But the display shows Ah. Now that I read the manual, it says that the display is showing "motor output power". Does Ah make sense in that case?

You said "Your PAS only doing 6 amps is by design. A lot of owners of other brands complain about their pedal assist being too powerful. In my opinion, the smarter companies limit the current in the lower PAS levels so the bike starts out easier. You switch to higher PAS when you need more speed." I did have this problem initially, but fortunately was able to change the settings so that I have 5 PAS modes instead of 3 and I set the lowest mode to 40%, instead of the factory setting of 56%. But the at the highest PAS setting (100%), the motor output power still only shows 6.0 Ah. Whereas in throttle mode, it shows 20 Ah. The picture shows the display when I turn it on and select "Power Display" mode.

 

[SLONomad]

Now that we got that straightened out, back to my original question. Is it normal for an e-bike battery to deliver so few amps (6 amps) in the highest PAS mode?

 

[PDXzap]

I'm not sure we straightened anything out. According to the manual I found online, the display should be showing "wh" for the amount of watts going to the motor, not "ah" for amps.
If it was me I'd be inclined to try and reset the display.

From this page: https://www.eahoraebike.com/blogs/news/download-user-manual-display-manual

This file: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0118/7260/0160/files/YL80C_Manual.pdf?v=1585047068

 

[SLONomad]

I think that would depend on the controller setting..

But yeah, it's strange.

It's putting out 20A with throttle, and 6A with highest PAS.

You say it's strange. Do you know what "normal" should be? I have yet to hear from anyone how many amps in PAS mode they get for a similar setup.

 

[SLONomad]

I'm not sure we straightened anything out. According to the manual I found online, the display should be showing "wh" for the amount of watts going to the motor, not "ah" for amps.
If it was me I'd be inclined to try and reset the display.

From this page: https://www.eahoraebike.com/blogs/news/download-user-manual-display-manual

This file: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0118/7260/0160/files/YL80C_Manual.pdf?v=1585047068

Based on other settings described in the manual, I think it is displaying amps. There is a setting that allows adjusting the maximum current (amps) in throttle mode. It appears to coincide with the readings on the display when I use the throttle.

 

[SLONomad]

I can't say much about eHora because it might be normal for them.

But in my experience, ebikes with throttle will usually have equivalent power of PAS at highest assist.
However, almost always throttle will be capped at 20mph and PAS will be 28mph or whatever the topspeed its set at.

So your bike doesn't display amps? I'm really curious what that "equivalent level of power" is, as measured in amps.

I can go about 25 mph on a flat road in either PAS or throttle mode.

 

[SLONomad]

Just got this from eAhora tech support:

"PAS mode is designed to save the battery power, that is why you can
see only 6 amps under this mode.
When using the throttle and start pedaling, the PAS mode will start
automatically.
Please notice AM100 is equipped with 350W motor, which can't be aujusted.
Thank you."

That really sucks. They have sacrificed performance to "save battery power"??? Save it for what??? I want to use the full power of the battery when I need it.... climbing a hill. Bottom line, if you want to ride long distances on flat roads and trails, this bike is for you. They have designed it to optimize travel under those conditions. But don't expect it to help you when you need some extra power to climb any steep grades.

And what is ironic, if you do get tired going up a steep grade, you have to stop pedaling and switch to throttle only mode, which does just the opposite of the design intention....it uses up battery power 3 times as fast

 

[SLONomad]

Ok, first of all, they don't know what they're talking about.

Many ebike companies are, not manufactures, they're more like middle person between manufacture and customers.
You can purchase batches of ebikes on Alibaba, just request them to put your own brand, and ship it to the US.

And yes, 350W motor can be overboosted to higher power.

I'll give you some examples.

Juiced CrossCurrent came with Bafang SWX02, which was rated at 350W.
Without doing anything, Juiced decided to overvolt it to 650W for CrossCurrent S.
And again, they decided to overvolt it to even higher, this time, 750W.

RadRover's motor is Bafang G060.350.DC, which is rated at 350W.
However, they decided to overvolt it to 750W.

And I can go on and on... there's no such thing as "350W motor, which can't be adjusted"

You can overvolt motor relatively safely, many ebikes have overvolted motors.

Rad Power has been using 350W rated motor overvolted to 750W.
Although there's a beefy 750W rated motor.

Timpo,

Thank you for the explanation. I need to learn more about how these e-bikes work. I may be able to figure some way to get more current to my motor after all. I suppose a new, more customizable controller would do it, but is their such a thing that would be able to handle the regeneration function of this bike?

 

[Sierratim]

I suppose a new, more customizable controller would do it, but is their such a thing that would be able to handle the regeneration function of this bike?

Just to throw a bit more 'dust' in the air, I ride a Specialized Vado with torque sensing pedal assist. The mid-drive motor is rated for a 'nominal' 250W output. The app can monitor rider and motor power. At max rider effort and assist set to max the motor output peaks at ~800W. With a 36V battery this is 22.2A from the battery pack.

I can't imagine a practical reason why you're limited to 6A. I think you may be right that you should consider a different controller. Grin Tech does have a good selection of controllers, several of which support the regen braking it sounds like your bike has. In my experience Grin provides excellent support. Check with them for their recommendations. They're located in Vancouver BC so pretty fast shipping for those of us on the Weat coast.

Good luck.

 

[harryS]

Hi SLONomad. This is how good controllers work. You get limited current in the low PAS level. If you need more, switch up to a higher PAS level.

If you want the automatic transmission feel in an ebike, you'll just have to wait.

 

[SLONomad]

Hi SLONomad. This is how good controllers work. You get limited current in the low PAS level. If you need more, switch up to a higher PAS level.

If you want the automatic transmission feel in an ebike, you'll just have to wait.

...except that on this bike the higher PAS modes don't deliver higher levels of current. The PAS modes simply govern the maximum speed at which the current is delivered. Is that how your bike works?

 

[harryS]

The Eahora AM100 sure is a nice looking ebike, full suspension, etc. Still, it's a 350W DIRECT DRIVE motor, and that will never be a good hill climber, even if you threw in 30 amps.

Mr. Hicks can tell you about his 750W DD motor and hills, and what he rides now.

The controllers on my ebikes are mostly KT controllers which can be optioned for either current or speed controlled PAS. In PAS 1 under current control, only get about 10-15% of the wattage available to the controller and it also limits the speed.

 

[SLONomad]

Direct Drive??? Looks like a geared hub to me.

Eahora AM100 - 27.5" 500W 672WH Mountain Electirc Bike - Full Suspension E-mtb - 28MPH

Mountain biking is a great way to get outdoors and explore nature. However, it can be tough going uphill. The Eahora AM100 mountain electric bike makes it easy to conquer any terrain. This bike has a full suspension with an air suspension fork and 4-link hydraulic rear suspension. With a 48V...

www.eahoraebike.com

I hope you were being facetious. The gears on a geared hub motor are on the inside.

Geared Hub Motors Vs Gearless Hub Motors

www.ebikeschool.com

 

[harryS]

Direct Drive??? Looks like a geared hub to me.

It's the size of a geared motor, but the advertisements said it has regenerative braking and a controller that knows how to recover power with your normal pedalling, so it would have to be DD. Small direct drives don't have the same torque as similar size geared, but it's all about tradeoffs. If you want regen, etc.

 

[epetgreen]

Hi Timpo,As you know I'm using the same size battery with a 350w motor and do 20mph on the throttle and the same speed on PAS which does me fine.I have just bought a conversion which has a 1000w motor with 48v so am looking forward to how it will perform on the same battery.