How do i delimit my EVO Cross? Is it simple to do for a novice?

[lukebthomas]

How do i delimit my EVO Cross? Is it simple to do for a novice? I live in Fremantle Western Australia.

 

[Joergen8]

There are threads about this, and this is one of the first thoughts any 25km/h Easy Motion owner has.

It's nigh impossible, and nobody seems to really have the answers.

It was suggested that you need to swap out the EU spec motor with an NA one to achieve 32km/h, but nobody knows, and it's not like you can just buy them. Compared to almost any other ebike system, Easy Motion has zero availability on parts and components to consumers.

As for a full delimit, past Nitro speeds. Well, that's just preposterous.

Edit: sorry if that sounds depressing, but I've been following the BH modding discussion for two years, and it has gotten nowhere. Partially because BH will not give any answers (naturally), and partly because retailers are afraid to share what they know or have discovered.

The designation on my Euro Evo 29er motor is M155 CN3614 (36V)
1409BH**** (E). It is a Dapu M155 motor with an unknown level of customization for BH.

I'd love to upgrade to a US/NA spec motor to get that 32-35km/h speed, if that is how it even works. Or else the controller (inside the downtube above the battery) that is responsible for the speed, as has also been suggested. But I guess I'll have to wait for someone to total their 2015 US 29er and buy their parts.

Retailers have a full catalog of parts and part numbers, both US and EU, but arent too keen on selling.

UPDATE: Got my US motor now (just the motor). I was able to manipulate the TMM4 sensor to simulate pedal torque, and while floating on a repair stand, my Euro wheel goes 30,4 km/h and the US motor goes 44,3 km/h. So this confirms what others have already discovered, that it's the motor (windings and or gearing reduction) and voltage that determine the max speed on BH bikes.

Factoring in wind resistance, IRL the bike goes 28km/h on the Euro wheel, and probably around 37 km/h with the US wheel with a full battery.

 

[Joergen8]

This gigantic thread has many answers, but lots of OT discussion too.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2074530

 

[Peter]

There are three ways to get more speed on a euro bh bike.

1. Buy a Nitro battery. I have tried it and it works.

2. Put on a booster battery. I have tried it and it works. Though might not be good for your battery.

3. Put a us rear wheel on a eurobike. I have not tried this but have read a uabout a user that did this.

Uscontroller on an eu bike does not give higher top speed.

 

[Joergen8]

3. If swapping out the rear wheel would give 32-34km/h speed, that would be an easy and safe mod, even if the controller would still limit the power to a nominal 250W. But from what I've read, BH ask for the serial number of your bike and wont sell incompatible parts, or even matching parts without an explanation. This will put people off buying their bikes in the long run, especially if the competition sells their components more freely.

1. I wonder if the 48V Nitro battery would be damaged by the lower voltage range expected by a 36V controller, where it would not shut the system down until the 1 bar of a 36V system's low charge limit, which would be dangerously low for a 48V battery.

2. Custom batteries or boosters scare me personally, due to increased risk of fire. I keep my bike inside my house.

 

[Peter]

3. If swapping out the rear wheel would give 32-34km/h speed, that would be an easy and safe mod, even if the controller would still limit the power to a nominal 250W. But from what I've read, BH ask for the serial number of your bike and wont sell incompatible parts, or even matching parts without an explanation. This will put people off buying their bikes in the long run, especially if the competition sells their components more freely.
You are right if you live in Europe you cannot find a dealer that will sell you a US back Wheel but at least one user has found a US dealer that would sell him a back Wheel. I think I read about him on this forum. Try to search for the user here.

1. I wonder if the 48V Nitro battery would be damaged by the lower voltage range expected by a 36V controller, where it would not shut the system down until the 1 bar of a 36V system's low charge limit, which would be dangerously low for a 48V battery.
Dont know about this. You could ask on the australian forum.

2. Custom batteries or boosters scare me personally, due to increased risk of fire. I keep my bike inside my house.

If you dont have a bike yet why not go for a Nitro model. Should be easy to find in Europe.

 

[Joergen8]

I already have an EU spec Evo, and while I was considering buying the new Nitro 29er, I'd still like to get more out of my current bike.

While putting on my winter tires the other day, I was thinking how nice it would be to have another set of wheels, and it would be great for the second motor wheel to be US spec.

I can't get a US wheel locally since BH won't sell them to EU dealers, so I guess I'll have to go half way across the world to California (to buy a Chinese part).

http://www.electriccyclery.com

Though their picture shows a Neo wheel (cable comes out the wrong side), but it's prob just an older picture.

 

[Joergen8]

I can't get an answer from the dealers on buying a US rear wheel or a Nitro wheel. Some say no, some won't respond. Ok, if BH has scared them out of talking to users who want to "mod" their bikes, fine, but as a person who paid a lot of money for a product, and has had nothing but good things to say about it, the lack of communication from both BH and the dealers is disturbing, rude even. I hope the silence is not a sign of the dealers not wanting to deal with BH (and owners) on anything more than what is necessary.

And no, I will not "just buy a Nitro." What if I want a 20mph, 500w, 2016 US Evo Pro wheel for my Nitro, and get the same runaround. "Just bring it in" is not an answer either. I want to buy parts, not have my commuter bike sit in a shop for two weeks.

 

[Joergen8]

So from what I and others have been able to deduce from the available information, the Dapu motors on BH bikes have been wound (as in copper windings inside the motor) to run at a certain RPM under load at a set voltage.

So, an EU 29er gets a 29er motor wound to run at ~25km/h at 36V under load / set Amperage, and its US version gets a slightly differently wound motor that runs at ~32km/h at 36V.

This is a physical limitation in the motor that cannot be modded.

I know speed is not much of an issue for the US market since most people feel 20mph is more than enough, but this is an issue for EU owners.

Recently all sorts of stores ranging from supermarkets to electronics stores have started to import cheap e-bikes that offer easy (in menu) speed hacking, have lax power limits and thumb throttles (no throttle on EU BH bikes, not even with appropriate retrofit parts, not even when local law would allow it).

BH owners like myself are seeing ever increasing amounts of social media posts from friends, posts in e-bike groups and forums showing off their fast and powerful, much cheaper kits and bikes, and the easy speed hacking of top brand bikes with Bosch, Yamaha, Brose etc motors. This will affect BH's market share, and the aftermarket price of current bikes.

Recently the EU laws governing e-bikes received an update, now allowing up to 1000W motors with throttle (with mandatory insurance), but still only at 15mph. The chinese bikes were instantly adjusted to reflect this new law. My BH? Can't do nothing!

 

[George S.]

I know speed is not much of an issue for the US market since most people feel 20mph is more than enough, but this is an issue for EU owners.

Recently all sorts of stores ranging from supermarkets to electronics stores have started to import cheap e-bikes that offer easy (in menu) speed hacking, have lax power limits and thumb throttles (no throttle on EU BH bikes, not even with appropriate retrofit parts, not even when local law would allow it).

BH owners like myself are seeing ever increasing amounts of social media posts from friends, posts in e-bike groups and forums showing off their fast and powerful, much cheaper kits and bikes

@Joergen8 -- Thanks for all this info, over many months. The US was not happy with 20 mph and the push is for 28 mph. It IS the law in California and Utah. What they say they will do, do next, is lock down the bikes for 750 watts and 28 mph, plus they will label all bikes.

The thing with the kits and the direct Asia imports is going to be tough. I think we have a sensible law in Utah right now. I don't want any more speed. I don't think you can push motors too far and still call the thing a bike. But the high power options are everywhere.

Will the people who come into ebiking with the attitude "I want more than the legal limits" turn out to cause more problems? The watts are hard to determine, especially if they say 'output' watts. But the speed limit is easy. It's easy to say if a bike has a throttle, but major manufacturers are putting throttles on US bikes where it isn't allowed.

It's a mess and everyone feels bad. It seems like you can do what you want right now, but there is a lot of legal liability. That's what a big corporation thinks about, I guess. I had a bike that was locked down and no one found a way to hack it (Prodeco X3). I found it only slightly annoying. It would get to 20 mph and that was it, even when the motor was not working very hard. Your limit at 15 would be frustrating, but I would still have an ebike.

 

[Joergen8]

Not to fuel the lawless kit frenzy either. I do not think crazy DIY kits on flimsy bike frames is a good idea, or fortunately even an option for most people, and are potentially lethal with undersized brakes, flexy frames, slim tires with poor grip, dangling wires etc. They also often have poor efficiency and design.

BH of course has their Revo (Brose) and Xenion (Bosch) lines that are "tuneable" with speed mods, but their Evo (Dapu) hub motor line still isn't.

If US hub motors were available to buy a year ago, I would not have had any further interest in this subject. I feel I'd do fine with 20mph, and indeed whenever I reach it on downhills, it feels crazy fast.

The sad thing is, I just want a second rear wheel for the 600-700 bucks, and I want it to be the faster US wheel.

For a $250 part (Dapu motor), that's a reasonable markup for all parties involved, and yet they aren't selling. What a world!

And how green is the grass? Well, I've been eyeing the Bulls Evo FS 3 27,5+. 650Wh battery, thru-axles and 27,5+ (boost) wheels. Take notes, BH!

http://www.bulls.de

 

[J.R.]

To add insult to injury, with the U.S. spec motor it takes little effort to cruise at 23 MPH in 100% (top) assist and it really isn't difficult to even top 24+ MPH. I rarely go for that kind of speed, I just don't have the need most times and speed kills range. Most often I ride in 30% assist at ~18 MPH. Still it would be difficult to be restricted to 15 MPH top speed, even though at times I happily will cruise along at 15 or so. For any commuting purpose one needs the option of higher speeds to have cycling make sense and urban stop and go commuting would increase the need for speed. I have had the occasional 17 mile commute at 20+MPH, sometimes you just have to get there yesterday.

Joergen, I don't know if this is even possible for you, but maybe you could call some of the high volume dealers here in the U.S. (Crazy Lenny?) and speak to them about a U.S. spec motor. There has to be used motors from wrecked bikes available somewhere, or possibly even a new motor. I'm aware of the lengths you've gone to in researching this issue, I just think, actually speaking to someone here may get better results.

Edit: One thing's for sure, given how difficult it is to get a motor (you documented that), if I ever run into a wrecked BH bike for sale, I'll pick it up on spec. If I can't use it, someone here can!

 

[Joergen8]

I actually have a friend staying on Oahu right now, and was thinking I'd pay her to pick up a spare rear wheel at the local dealer, dismantle the wheel and bring just the hub over when she returns.

The thing is though, dealers don't sell parts, they order them on request, and BH requires the details on which bike the parts are going to be used on. So unless the dealer has a 2015 350W 29er or another 2015 bike with similar motor at hand to take details (serial nr, owner etc) from, it's a no go. It's by no means the fault of the dealers, though I would have appreciated a response from some of them.

So, recognizing diminishing returns for an investment, and the unrealistic difficulty of getting a US wheel, it might be time to consider moving on while the bike still has value on the used market.

My brother is getting the Bulls bike I mentioned above, or a similar Rotwild, so I'll get to see if the grass truly is greener. I've actually enjoyed my BH enough that I considered their Revo offerings too, but nearly at the same price as the Bulls Evo FS 3 27,5+, the BH bike has no thru axles, 150Wh less battery and is not a +. Same for their Nitro jumper.

I'm sure used US wheels will eventually be available as bikes get wrecked, but by then I'd need to buy a new battery for $600, maybe replace other parts too. Diminishing returns, or rather https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escalation_of_commitment

 

[Jack Tyler]

@Joergen8 I too have been reading your posts and feeling badly about your predicament. This may sound like a broken record to you, but I'm wondering if at least a few of the Dealers might not have more latitude than you imagine or is more generally true. Just to test this, I'd suggest you call Lenny if you haven't already and verify that all avenues are truly closed for getting a U.S. motor or wheel ordered and then subsequently (independently) shipped by the Dealer. You've done such a nice job of customizing your bike - and seem so satisfied with it - that it seems a shame to ditch it and 'start over' until all options are clearly dead ends. And Lenny does enough business and has been doing it for long enough that, if anyone can speak to how flexible things 'might be', it's probably him. On sheer effort alone, you certainly deserve it.

Best wishes,
Jack

 

[Joergen8]

Thanks JT, and everybody here for putting up with my constant whining. Some dude complaining about a product you just bought is probably not the first thing you want to see on a forum.

Yes I've very much enjoyed the bike, just broke 2500 miles on it recently, and it's all I need from an e-bike to be honest, but the possibility of making it even better and then hitting a bureaucratic wall is driving me nuts.

BTW. If I ever manage to score a US wheel, I wonder if I should "protect" the dealer by not mentioning them publicly. A tad absurd when we're talking about buying bicycle components.

Update: now I've contacted the few competing e-bike manufacturers that use Dapu motors to see if theirs match BH's (in terms of internal speed and hall sensors, cable routing), I've also contacted Dapu directly for technical details. Not that I expect any responses, cause nearly a thousand bucks for just a motor is not worth writing back, am I right.

UPDATE: The search is over! Got my US motor from Lenny's. Thanks to everyone who helped!

 

[bjornb]

BH Evo 29er owner here. I ended up going the other route, a booster battery connected in serial.

From testing:


I put it in a frame bag when I use it now:


I am using one of these batteries (2S / 7.4V 12.8Ah):
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

I've used it for about a year now, no problems so far. Assist works to slightly above 35km/h (22mph).

 

[Joergen8]

Thanks for posting bjornb!

I've seen pictures of those on Neos, but yours is the first Evo.

I suppose, eventually somebody could try modifying a Nitro battery to reduce the voltage to around 43V to achieve the same results. But you'd need a charger with matching voltage. Your setup has extra capacity of course, and can charge the booster and the internal battery separately. You also retain the slightly higher torque at low speeds vs the reduced internal gearing reduction and lower torque of the US motor.

I've really been enjoying the extra speed. Just makes practical sense to have "reserve" speed for long straights, heading into a climb, and safe places like rural roads. Though, the tendency of the BH system to surge and too eagerly go for max speed on the two highest assist levels is not something I'd recommend for casual riders. A helmet is a must. Almost makes me want to wear a full face DH helmet.

 

[bjornb]

The higher voltage also increase torque and power a bit, its even more eager on the two highest assist levels now . Is the reduction in torque noticable on the US motor compared to EU stock?

Since I have increased the voltage I do sometimes put my hand on the motor at the end of the trip to check the temperature (I dont know whether the motor has internal temp protection..). It does not get very hot:


The higher assist speed makes the bike very good for efficient/fast commuting.

 

[Manu]

The model nitro and evo in manual settings control panel hold 2 buttons and choose wheel size .......change the "real" wheel 29" or 28" by 16".........up assist up 35 kilometer by hour in evo...in nitro........¿60?,the speed in display dont real.The model revel,revo,xenion you have speed up or tunning mode with engines bosh,browse and yamaha but you need buy the tunning and install..........

http://www.ebiketuning.com/shop/category/50-impulse.html
http://www.blackped.com/
https://www.badassebikes.com/

The USA legislation is very good,engines 750w or less ,the UE legislation is poor.............limited electrical system to 250 w

 

[Joergen8]

Is the reduction in torque noticable on the US motor compared to EU stock?

It is noticeable to me. From a stand still it's slightly more sluggish, but then again I've had 1.5 years of experience with the stock motor.