How big a market for step through?

[opimax]

Carrying a Stromer battery in each pannier cause frame flex and handlebar shake on their med frame which is the in between style. I will get a diamond frame as long as I can ride them. It was more noticeable on the previous model a complete step through

 

[PatriciaK]

My giant la free is a step through with the battery on the back rack, and it's not an issue at all - I like it there. It leaves the step through open and accessable.

I don't think the weight issue with battery placement issue is the same with a mid drive as it is a rear hub. With a mid drive, the weight of the motor at the bottom of the frame more than balances out the lesser weight of the battery on the rear rack. That's been my experience, anyway. With a rear hub, I could understand it being a problem, since ALL the weight is on/over the back tire. There's a big difference.

 

[vincent]

I want a full step thru, not a mixte frame

 

[onlineaddy]

Having a rear-rack battery does affect the balance of the bike, especially during a panic stop. Ask me how I know.

 

[byunbee]

Having a rear-rack battery does affect the balance of the bike, especially during a panic stop. Ask me how I know.

Just show us the scars!

 

[ak907]

Handling is something to keep in mind, though I am not sure how much it plays into things with lower speed less experienced riders. I certainly have noticed that on step though frames the feel of the bike tends to beach cruiser, hates high speed and manuvering. I found that to be unnerving. In particular when going over city speed bumps the steering would get upset and things would feel jello-y. This is all made worse with more weight and speed that comes with electric bikes.

 

[byunbee]

Handling is something to keep in mind, though I am not sure how much it plays into things with lower speed less experienced riders. I certainly have noticed that on step though frames the feel of the bike tends to beach cruiser, hates high speed and manuvering. I found that to be unnerving. In particular when going over city speed bumps the steering would get upset and things would feel jello-y. This is all made worse with more weight and speed that comes with electric bikes.

From what I've read, step thru frames have inherently more flex and are weaker than the traditional diamond frames. In order to compensate for that step thru frames need to be thicker and heavier. I'm not sure what direction @pushkar has gone to address this.

 

[pushkar]

From what I've read, step thru frames have inherently more flex and are weaker than the traditional diamond frames. In order to compensate for that step thru frames need to be thicker and heavier. I'm not sure what direction @pushkar has gone to address this.

You are right - our step throughs will be slightly heavier (~0.5-1lb) than the equivalent diamond (regular frame).

 

[jaizon]

You are right - our step throughs will be slightly heavier (~0.5-1lb) than the equivalent diamond (regular frame).

I don't see that as an issue at all.

 

[vincent]

Me either, I can live with a lb heavier

 

[TForan]

You mean girl's bikes ?

 

[6zfshdb]

At 73, I can still swing my leg over my conventional high bar MTB's but it is unclear just how long I will be able to do so. I paid a lot for my ebike and I want to be able to ride it for as long as possible. Buying a step thru was insurance.

Due to the increased height, high bar bikes with rear rack batteries are more difficult to swing a leg over when they are equipped with rear rack bags. Ebikes are also 50 to 100% heavier that conventional models which makes leaning the bike over to mount more difficult.

Yes, step thru bikes aren't as rigid as high bar models but I don't ride single track or downhill anymore so I don't care. Call me a sissy if you like but I'll stick with my step thru thank you very much.

 

[dodahman]

I am just glad they are not called 'girls bikes'. 'step thru' is better marketing by doubling the possible buyers.
And I am unable to walk, but totally able to ride, I need and have a step thru.
I think rigidity is much better now than in early models. And I am not doing wild jumps etc these days, so plenty 'rigid' for me.

 

[peteh_2]

Hi pushkar,

I've been following the Watt Wagons forum for some time and thought I'd provide some input. I recently purchased a Biktrix Swift, which is a hub drive step through. I'm interested in the U/C Pro as an upgrade to the Swift once it becomes available.

I'm 6'5" with long legs, in good shape, and primarily use my bike for a 5-minute commute to work, running errands and exercise on the evenings/weekends. I don't need a step-through frame but I find it much more enjoyable to use on a daily basis than a regular frame.

In a perfect world, I'd like to see a 21Ah battery integrated into the downtube (if/when that's possible) as opposed to a smaller Ah battery in the downtube and the need for a second battery blocking a portion of the step-through. Just my .02. Cheers.

 

[pushkar]

Hi @Pete Harrower Thanks for the kind words. I am excited about getting you a great bike!

The current design at the moment has a 17Ah battery pack. Fortunately, with the new controller you get 15-20% efficiency on the pack, so it is technically equivalent to having a larger ~20ah Pack on the bike! Yay!

We also have the commuter companion program. So as tech changes in the future and we are able to produce a bike with a larger integrated battery, you can just swap out the entire frame and re-use the components From the older bike.. we will ensure everything else is compatible !

Please let me know if you have any questions. I look forward to valuable inputs from you and other customers to keep making the bike better!

 

[byunbee]

At 73, I can still swing my leg over my conventional high bar MTB's but it is unclear just how long I will be able to do so. I paid a lot for my ebike and I want to be able to ride it for as long as possible. Buying a step thru was insurance.

Due to the increased height, high bar bikes with rear rack batteries are more difficult to swing a leg over when they are equipped with rear rack bags. Ebikes are also 50 to 100% heavier that conventional models which makes leaning the bike over to mount more difficult.

Yes, step thru bikes aren't as rigid as high bar models but I don't ride single track or downhill anymore so I don't care. Call me a sissy if you like but I'll stick with my step thru thank you very much.

I'll call you SASSY! J/K

 

[byunbee]

Hi pushkar,

I've been following the Watt Wagons forum for some time and thought I'd provide some input. I recently purchased a Biktrix Swift, which is a hub drive step through. I'm interested in the U/C Pro as an upgrade to the Swift once it becomes available.

I'm 6'5" with long legs, in good shape, and primarily use my bike for a 5-minute commute to work, running errands and exercise on the evenings/weekends. I don't need a step-through frame but I find it much more enjoyable to use on a daily basis than a regular frame.

In a perfect world, I'd like to see a 21Ah battery integrated into the downtube (if/when that's possible) as opposed to a smaller Ah battery in the downtube and the need for a second battery blocking a portion of the step-through. Just my .02. Cheers.

@Pete Harrower, To be clear, most batteries on the market are 36V or 48V. the UC Pro comes with 52V batteries.

48V x 21Ah = 1008W
52V x 17Ah @ 15% increased efficiency = 884W + 15% = 1017W
52V x 17Ah @ 20% increased efficiency = 884W + 20% = 1060W

UCP Pro's batteries aren't low capacity batteries and for the type of riding you're describing, you likely will only need to charge your bike once or twice a week. No range anxiety there.

Below is a snippet from a post from @pushkar for 52V 14Ah battery range with the Archon X1 controller. Originally, the new UC Pro was going to come with 14Ah, but he was able to use a bigger downtube to fit the 17Ah battery as standard.

My test rig on the Travlanche, with new Archon X1 controller, has a 14AH battery (which will be equivalent to the integrated downtube battery). We restrict the throttle to 600W / 90Nm.

1. 3000W version,
   1. PAS (Pedal Assist) only, maintaining 26-28mph, I get ~ 25Wh / mile - so right around 29/30 miles.
   2. With Throttle only, I am getting right around 17/19 miles
2. The 1000W / 1600W peak version,
   1. PAS only, maintaining 26-28mph, I get ~18Wh/mile - so right around 40 miles .
   2. Throttle only is ~21/ 22 miles
3. The 750W / 1100W peak version,
   1. PAS only, maintaining 26-28mph, I get ~16Wh/mile - so right around 45 miles .
   2. Throttle only is ~24/25 miles

Scaling to the 1600Wh battery, I can extrapolate the numbers to something like this

1. 3000W version,
   1. PAS (Pedal Assist) only, maintaining 26-28mph, I get ~ 25Wh / mile - so right around 65 miles.
   2. With Throttle only, I am getting right around 35 miles
2. The 1000W / 1600W peak version,
   1. PAS only, maintaining 26-28mph, I get ~18Wh/mile - so right around 85 miles .
   2. Throttle only is ~45 miles
3. The 750W / 1100W peak version,
   1. PAS only, maintaining 26-28mph, I get ~16Wh/mile - so right around 100 miles .
   2. Throttle only is ~50 miles

 

[Ebiker33]

Well you have an Ebike that solves this issue in the que, for me I keep having the debate rear suspension or step through for my next Ebike.
Step throughs are great for people with shorter inseams even for straddling the bike when stopped.

Can you do a step through with fat tires ?
Sondors is launching a new step through fatty, which is exclusively step through, with mid-drive, I am sure they did their data research, they have sold over 50,000 Ebikes since 2015, that might give you a pretty strong hint which way the market is heading.

 

[pushkar]

We have the UC Pro step thru in the queue, absolutely.

Doing fat tire + step through is definitely harder than it looks. From the Sondors picture, they are obviating the stress problem by having a single continuous chassis. Funnily enough that's actually how RM does the cargo bikes too...(very similar load and roll characteristics). Sondors appears to have put in the $$ and time to build something custom that works. That is awesome.


Question - FS versus Fat Step thru ? Tell me more about that.

 

[vincent]

I love my WW softtail but might have gone for step thru and bodyfloat if it had been available at the time