High Powered eBike Camping: Enter the Realm of Highly Compromised Decisions and Deeply Ambivalent Feelings

Don't you wish your eBike sounded and performed like this?

When it comes to electric vehicles, Yamaha’s electric bicycle division has been charging into the future while its electric motorcycle division has been oddly quiet and unproductive — at least outwardly.

These specs just look too much like the Sienna, for it to be a coincidence.

The world’s largest automaker may be the greatest at producing large production runs, but has a history of collaboration — Subaru and BMW recently, not to mention Yamaha in years past — when it comes to limited production sports cars. Considering that Toyota is a little behind in electric vehicle development and that a Yamaha-produced sports car could not only be produced quickly but also provide a halo for future EVs — exactly like Tesla did with the original Roadster — it’s a good guess that, if the Yamaha High-performance Electric Motor Prototype ever does see the light of day, it will be wearing a Toyota badge.

 
Last edited:

I remain skeptical of how much traction AWD-e provides in snow over 45mph. My understanding is none.

The idea of a small rear motor enhances regenerative braking and fuel economy, but has little to do with traction. I certainly do not want to believe all wheels are tracking, when they are not.
 
Last edited:
Find a car forum that cares. You don't need a car to ride an eTouring bike.
I care about the 110VAC to recharge the battery. What is your battery range?
Following the Continental Divide as closely as practicable and crossing it 30 times, about 90% of the GDMBR is on unpaved roads and trails and requires basic off-pavement riding skills to complete. The unpaved portions of the route range from high quality dirt or gravel roads to a few short sections of unmaintained trails which may not be possible to ride at all. The GDMBR has over 200,000 ft (61,000 m) of elevation gain and loss for the rider to contend with.[4] While most of the GDMBR is off the pavement, the route does not require highly technical mountain bike riding skills. The route has been designed to provide a riding experience primarily on very low trafficked roads through mostly undeveloped areas of the Rocky Mountain west.

What is your recommendation for something like this? I see the minivan playing the same role as cars in the Tour de France.

 
Last edited:

I remain skeptical of how much traction AWD-e provides in snow over 45mph. My understanding is none.

The idea of a small rear motor enhances regenerative braking and fuel economy, but has little to do with traction. I certainly do not want to believe all wheels are tracking, when they are not.
My impression is the Sienna is fundamentally FWD, like my Honda Odyssey. I never felt comfortable in the mountain snow. The Odyssey was great on wet pavement after snow melted.

My impression is the rear motor is programmed as an EV. Perhaps, something subtle is done with torque to balance power?

HIghlander gas-only and hybrid models have entirely different transmissions.


IMG_1014.PNG
Traction may vary with trim model. Hybrid AWD is different.

 
Last edited:
I care about the 110VAC to recharge the battery. What is your battery range?
My range? 100+ miles per pack, 2 packs. If you don't ride like you naively suggest above (and no one does), you won't do it regardless of the car that you don't own but are still trying to capitalize on. So you are going to ride the GD and drive the car too? "ULTRA REMOTE" but within range of a gas station. Get a grip dude.

My suggestions:
  • Get a bike
  • Learn to ride it
  • Ride it
  • Do a century
  • Get up the next morning and do it again
  • Modify your entire plan
  • If way in the future you ever need a vehicle to support a ride do your research then.
 
My range? 100+ miles per pack, 2 packs. If you don't ride like you naively suggest above (and no one does), you won't do it regardless of the car that you don't own but are still trying to capitalize on. So you are going to ride the GD and drive the car too? "ULTRA REMOTE" but within range of a gas station. Get a grip dude.

My suggestions:
  • Get a bike
  • Learn to ride it
  • Ride it
  • Do a century
  • Get up the next morning and do it again
  • Modify your entire plan
  • If way in the future you ever need a vehicle to support a ride do your research then.
  • What is your bike and battery pack capacity?
  • Where do you ride?
  • How far and how much elevation do the battery packs yield?
  • How long do they take to recharge?
  • How much do you weigh?
 
Last edited:
What is your bike and battery pack capacity? Where do you ride?
Now you want to talk about bikes? I thought you were trying to sell cars with inverters. One of my packs is 58.8V, 35Ah (2058Wh) the other is 58.8V, 32Ah. If you want... what was it? Oh, yeah, "ultra remote" you should ditch the idea of a car and invest in a portable solar system. Best place to start... is, get a bike.

7 levels of bike
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ADgC6oyPM2gyrCq27
 
Now you want to talk about bikes? I thought you were trying to sell cars with inverters. One of my packs is 58.8V, 35Ah (2058Wh) the other is 58.8V, 32Ah. If you want... what was it? Oh, yeah, "ultra remote" you should ditch the idea of a car and invest in a portable solar system. Best place to start... is, get a bike.

7 levels of bike
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ADgC6oyPM2gyrCq27
  • How long does it take to charge the battery packs with the panels?
  • How many watts are the solar panels? I suppose DC from panel directly to battery?
  • I'm guessing the Bafang is 750W?
  • What range do you get per battery pack?
  • You probably carry 100 pounds?
 
Now you want to talk about bikes? I thought you were trying to sell cars with inverters. One of my packs is 58.8V, 35Ah (2058Wh) the other is 58.8V, 32Ah. If you want... what was it? Oh, yeah, "ultra remote" you should ditch the idea of a car and invest in a portable solar system. Best place to start... is, get a bike.

7 levels of bike
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ADgC6oyPM2gyrCq27
How do your brakes work coming down Mt Rainer? I remember do over 60mph down Mt. Shasta.
 
  • How long does it take to charge the battery packs with the panels?
  • How many watts are the solar panels? I suppose DC from panel directly to battery?
  • I'm guessing the Bafang is 750W?
  • What range do you get per battery pack?
  • You probably carry 100 pounds?
Start here :
https://electricbikereview.com/foru...fine-the-ideal-electric-touring-bicycle.27821
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/best-bike-for-long-distance-touring.31869/
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/building-an-etouring-bike.34173/
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/is-anyone-trying-to-solve-charging-on-the-road.31265/

then wander through the last year of how people are doing what you want to do... but more realistically.
 
The brakes work fine. Can I suggest that you start a single thread about cars that you would use to support an ebike and put all your possibilities and variations under it? I post my daily rides under a single thread not just making a new thread for each ride. Good luck with the homework.
 
The brakes work fine. Can I suggest that you start a single thread about cars that you would use to support an ebike and put all your possibilities and variations under it? I post my daily rides under a single thread not just making a new thread for each ride. Good luck with the homework.
I have a different approach. The Specialized Creo weighs 27 pounds. Has low power motor and low power consumption. The battery plus one extender has a 120 mile range. Bring multiple extenders that can be recharged from car, while i ride. Each extender has 40 mile range. The idea is to have a high human to motor power ratio. In other words, frugul battery drain.

There are many different ways to skin a cat.
 
Some d
I have a different approach. The Specialized Creo weighs 27 pounds. Has low power motor and low power consumption. The battery plus one extender has a 120 mile range. Bring multiple extenders that can be recharged from car, while i ride. Each extender has 40 mile range. The idea is to have a high human to motor power ratio. In other words, frugul battery drain.

There are many different ways to skin a cat.
Some do it with cars. "Ultra remote" that kills me. hahaha Good luck with your dreams. Stay safe.
 
My impression is the Sienna is fundamentally FWD, like my Honda Odyssey. I never felt comfortable in the mountain snow. The Odyssey was great on wet pavement after snow melted.

My impression is the rear motor is programmed as an EV. Perhaps, something subtle is done with torque to balance power?

HIghlander gas-only and hybrid models have entirely different transmissions.


Traction may vary with trim model. Hybrid AWD is different.


  • Inquire if trim models improve AWD snow traction, like with RAV4.
    • Covid19 impact now evident on manufacturing because RAV4 Prime models reduced.
  • A cost consideration is to order the van with high quality snow tires.
  • The Sienna will probably handle more like an Odyssey than a Subaru Forrester. This is a serious tradeoff.
  • Put heavy customizations over rear axle.
    • cabinets between seats.
      • Slide seats for access to cubbyholes.
      • Conflicts with tow attachment?
    • Build storage cabinets over wheel wells.
    • Cabinets are rear supports for hydraulic bed lowered from ceiling.
      • Cabinet length and height dependent upon Bed position.
        • Length determined by position of standup table
        • Height determined by bed platform distance from ceiling.
      • Cabinet width primarily influenced by
        • wheel well and
        • location of captains chairs super long tract positions.
          • They conflict
      • Bed positioned under panoramic moonroof.
      • Try to use captains chairs as lay-flat beds; already enough expense.
        • Modify by adding hydraulics, if necessary
  • Call Cheyenne dealer for advice of gas versus hybrid Highlander compared for very cold and snowy weather.
Winterization is a secondary consideration. Some
  1. ventilation,
  2. insulation and
  3. heating
is needed for lunch.

Overnight needs are unimportant.
  • How long will the 1.8kW HV battery last in cold temperatures?
    • Battery heater necessary?
    • Idling the engine with closed windows is undesirable, but probably necessary.
    • The battery is older nickel chemistry, which supposedly has better low temperature performance.
  • I do not need to build a stationary countertop.
  • Floor needs rubber mat covering for melting snow.
    • Have third row seats removed to use seat storage space for wet items.
  • Heated rear seats are now important.
  • Double low voltage battery amp-hours?
    • Verify DC-to-DC converter compatibility.
  • However, the reclining Ottoman's are useful to rest during lunch.
    • This issue is sleeping versus napping and resting!
    • Avoid the ski area indoor restaurants and especially bathrooms during covid19.
    • For Backcountry use, these features gain greater importance.
    • I found a convenient way to dismiss the reclining seats for cycling, but the issue returns.
      • I'm back to expensive Limited or Platinum trim model.
        • Heated second row seats only on Platinum
.
The lunchtime resting benefit outweighs poor snow traction, given that covid19 is such a dominating issue.
 
Last edited:
Simplification Rule #5: Maximize Personal Benefit by Changing Habits

The high voltage (HV), hybrid electrical system provides substantial benefit over conventional, low voltage (12V) gas engine electrical systems. You need a reason to change habits, because they are very hard to break. Understanding new technology provides the reasons for change.

Hybrid electrical systems offer enormous battery capacity (i.e., amp-hours) that conventional gas engine sytems cannot. Recharging a 500Wh eBike battery is possible from a 1.8Wh HV battery. A HV battery is typically around 300VDC, which is useless for eBike charger without a DC-to-DC converter and a DC-to-AC inverter. 300VDC power needs to be converted to 12VDC. A 12V inverter then transforms power into 110VAC. Knowing where the power orginates from is critical to changing habits.

300VDC technology is currently an inefficient energy storage mechanism. Some electrical work is performed very efficiently. Heating car seats is a more efficient way to keep you warm than trying to heat the interior air. The same applies to cooling. Ventilated seats are a more reasonable way to stay cool than running the air conditioner. You are forced with compromise, if you want to reserve maximum power for your eBike battery.

Understanding where electrical power originates from and how it can most effectively bring personal benefit will cause a change of habit in rational people. This information should inform your buying decisions. Beneficial features such as 110VAC outlets or ventilated and heated seats are expensive items, conventionally considered luxury features. These features provide maximum benefit with changes in habit.

Changes in habit are especially important due to the ever-present threat posed by covid19. Bathrooms are breeding grounds for covid19 transmission for technical reasons beyond this scope. Restaurants are places of high transmission. These places can be avoided by seeking temporary refuge in a minivan. Understanding technology provides the reason for change in habit, which may be highly inconvenient. A HV battery allows you to plug in a 1500W microwave or induction cooktop.

HV electrical system voltage varies between 300VDC and 600VDC. A booster transforms 300VDC to 600VDC power. HV electrical systems require more powerful cooling systems than conventional gas engine systems. A compressor provides powerful cooling for HV systems. A compressor can also cool or freeze food. The Sienna provides a small refrigerator by taking advantage of existing hardware. The refrigerator is so small that maximum benefit comes from freezing ice packs. A better habit change is to limit the amount of food consumed to fit the size of the refrigerator.

In my case, I will not install a heater. I will upgrade to heated rear seats. I will not install a stationary sleeping bed. I will upgrade to reclining Ottoman chairs. I might need to modify the chairs with hydraulics to allow lay-flat angles.

I will minimize the amount of items inside the minivan because they are a serious cause of injury when braking suddenly. All items inside the car must be secured. I will limit cargo the space behind the third row seats. Less is more in this case. The seats prevent some items from being hurled forward.

Use small batteries to provide light, rather than installing lights, to reserve the most battery power. Recharge small batteries while the engine is running. Hybrids have an electrical motor that is dedicated to generating power. Use a portable Bluetooth speaker to play music from your cellphone when the ignition is off. Recharge the Bluetooth speaker while the engine is running. An idling engine can generate power, but is wasteful.

Some circuits may only receive power while the engine is running. Verify before buying or have devices moved to a special circuit. The 110VAC outlets draw power at any time. When the HV battery is low, the engine is started automatically by the DC-to-DC converter. Thinking of the electrical system as a computer system is probably a better concept.

Using a thermostat controlled DC water heater that is directly connected to a 100W solar panel is better than drawing power from the HV battery. Storing a water tank inside the minivan is a bad idea. The power system lies below the floor. Air vents are often used to cool electrical components like DC-to-DC converter.

You might want to consider using HEPA air filter for covid19.

Battery performance is very dependent upon temperature and age. A five year old battery might be disappointing in cold weather.

Finally, understanding that car manufacturers increase battery capacity for regenerative braking will inform your buying decisions. AWD is acheieved in hybrids by adding an electrical motor to the rear axle. The extra regenerative power requires a larger battery. You might not need AWD is a warm climate, but AWD provides greater eBike battery recharge capacity.

Above all else, the charger is the most important part of a reCHARGing system.

High voltage, rather than batteries, is the big advantage of a hybrid over conventional gas engines, for my purposes.
 
Last edited:
I sense an automotive solid state battery will materialize sooner, rather than later. A Stanford spin-off with over 200 solid state battery patents has successfully powered a car with Volkswagen. Many more examples exist. The issue is which configuration will prove most successful from the hundreds of prototypes.

I don't want to invest $50,000 into a minivan that will be obsoleted in a few years.
 
200 miles per day? Every day? Yikes. Have you much experience with that sort of saddle time?

While the minivan route is tempting, and are awesome for day trips, if you are going to live in a vehicle, you need to be able to stand up in it, especially after riding all day. Buy either a full size cargo van, or an urban sized one then build it out as you'd like. The downside is you won't have a hybrid, but you will have better insulation, better bed, better cooking, better ventilation, less condensation, better home built to your specs and know how everything works.
 
200 miles per day? Every day? Yikes. Have you much experience with that sort of saddle time?

While the minivan route is tempting, and are awesome for day trips, if you are going to live in a vehicle, you need to be able to stand up in it, especially after riding all day. Buy either a full size cargo van, or an urban sized one then build it out as you'd like. The downside is you won't have a hybrid, but you will have better insulation, better bed, better cooking, better ventilation, less condensation, better home built to your specs and know how everything works.
No. I typically ride 5,000 to 10,000 miles per year on a mechanical bike. I have done so for the past five years. I don't find 100 miles per day, in two sessions, very difficult. The trick is conditioning yourself. The first two weeks will be a brutal adjustment.

I was imagining the standing up part would be around minivan. For example, shower or cook from a door.

I live in downtown Denver, where the maximum entry height is seven feet. A diesel Sprinter would be much better, but not an option for me.

That's what i mean by highly compromised and deeply ambivalent.

The hybrid system isn't what attracts me, but rather the high voltage electrical system. Quite peculiar.
 
Indeed, quite peculiar.

I've got a tall roof Promaster, and I sympathize with the overly tall issue. Being an older guy though, I got sick of crawling around on my hands and knees car camping, being able to stand while changing clothes, or just moving around inside is a revelation. If you end up in places with lousy weather and/or bugs, having a comfortable indoor refuge will be priceless. I have a tall friend who uses a Ford Transit Connect as a camper, they're only 6' tall so would fit in Denver garages. At least with that, you can still hunch over and walk around.
 
Back