Hidden battery in the DownTube replacements hard to find?

[ebikebob]

Hi there, are there standard generic DownTube hidden battery replacements available or is it highly specific to the model and maker?
I like the stealth factor a lot but wonder if it will be make me at the mercy of one specific vendor who may or may not Jack up the price or be out of business?

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Bob, the major motor drive manufacturers like Yamaha, Bosch, Shimano and Brose have batteries that are only specific to their motor. They are not interchangeable. Maybe as the ebike industry matures in the next quarter century will we possibly see batteries that can cross over all brands, but I highly doubt it. Think of power train components from an automobile; aside from maybe an external sensor or component like a throttle body or water temperature sensor, parts cannot be interchanged between say Ford and Chevy.

Right now, the same can be said for the major ebike drive manufacturer's external batteries. They too are not interchangeable with other makes.

 

[antboy]

Hi there, are there standard generic DownTube hidden battery replacements available or is it highly specific to the model and maker?
I like the stealth factor a lot but wonder if it will be make me at the mercy of one specific vendor who may or may not Jack up the price or be out of business?

It depends on the manufacturer.

As @Mike TowpathTraveler says, the big name companies are fairly proprietary, but if you're talking about bikes using rear hub (or Bafang mid drives), a lot of them use off the shelf battery housings and components. For example, Reention's Dorado style housing is very popular seen in MANY brands, and can be purchased in various sizes/capacities.

 

[Art Deco]

There are a few threads on rebuilding battery packs, but even more expensive than the big brands. Specialized gets about $1000 for a battery, BTW. I think @Timpo did a post on aftermarket batteries?

 

[rich c]

One of the reasons I buy Bosch. It will take a long time for them to discontinue any products, or product support. If the battery cost number bothers you, throw a dollar bill in a jar every time you ride. In roughly 3 1/2 years, I would have $1000 in the jar. I don't do that kind of budgeting method, but it's an example of how economical riding even a Bosch powered bike is.

 

[Alex M]

... the same can be said for the major ebike drive manufacturer's external batteries. They too are not interchangeable with other makes.

I think the OP asked about "internal" battery, i.e. hidden in the downtube. I would expect some difficulties finding a 3rd party replacement for such a battery, especially with new and/or lesser brands.

OTH, external batteries - i.e. frame mounted - are relatively easy to find. Except for models like Bosch that simply won't run on a 3-rd party battery - Bosch have made sure of that. Most other brands are not a problem, all possible shapes are sold at Aliexpress, Em3va, Luna, Ebay etc etc - from the same country where your OEM battery was made in. Maybe even from the same factory.

 

[Art Deco]

I believe Brose are also.

 

[Art Deco]

I seems like they should have an interface to an extender available. Even a water bottle battery would let you use your bike IIRC.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I think the OP asked about "internal" battery, i.e. hidden in the downtube.

Yes, and I answered his question about the downtube batteries from Bosch, Yamaha, Brose and Shimano. They are a proprietary design onto themselves. You are adding confusion and a smokescreen with your thought of "expecting some difficulties finding a third party replacement for such a battery." No kidding, think so, eh? I am most positive that someone in the battery world pipeline like Ravi would have already spoken on this subject if there truly was a legit second party seller out there.

After reading on the German and UK pedelec forums of folks getting burned on the quality of those external china aftermarket Yamaha batteries (we used to see them for sale on Ebay), failing completely after minimal use, it's a fools errand to want to spend any money on that aftermarket garbage.

As an addendum to my non-conversation-at-hand remark about external batteries, the German company E-Bike Vision does or did make batteries that are made for the Bosch and Yamaha ebike drive. I believe Shimano as well. Good luck trying to get one to the US, though; as they do not have a US vendor. Can't see them getting into the In-Tube market, as there is absolutely no room within the downtube space to build a bigger wh battery as they have done so successfully with their external batteries. Sorry, the OEM manufacturers have pretty much cornered the market in where an In-Tube owner will have to go for a replacement battery....

Chalk one win up for the External Battery fan (and owner).

It would have helped had the OP named a specific ebike and ebike drive he had in mind.

 

[Art Deco]

Yep. It would help more if the internal battery came with a port and BMS for any extender that can power the bike like those bottle batteries. Cheap to build into a bike at the factory, worth a lot to the user. Two cents.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Yep. It would help more if the internal battery came with a port and BMS for any extender that can power the bike like those bottle batteries. Cheap to build into a bike at the factory, worth a lot to the user. Two cents.

Riese and Muller were likely the first manufacturer to release a bike with two 500wh batteries (external). Today, you can find their models featuring two external batteries. Haibike's Bosch powered Trekking came with the ability to add an external battery, provided you had the proper MRS (modular rail system) installed as well as the wire harness for the external battery. Specialized is in on the game as well as other manufacturers. The era of the 1000wh battery capacity is getting up to full speed, giving alot of these bikes a true 100 mile range.

 

[Art Deco]

Riese and Muller were likely the first manufacturer to release a bike with two 500wh batteries (external). Today, you can find their models featuring two external batteries. Haibike's Bosch powered Trekking came with the ability to add an external battery, provided you had the proper MRS (modular rail system) installed as well as the wire harness for the external battery. Specialized is in on the game as well as other manufacturers. The era of the 1000wh battery capacity is getting up to full speed, giving alot of these bikes a true 100 mile range.

/offtopic Cool, but what I want is to be able to only carry an external battery when needed, and pick one up at any bike shop when it dies on the trail./ end off topic

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

/offtopic Cool, but what I want is to be able to only carry an external battery when needed, and pick one up at any bike shop when it dies on the trail./ end off topic

With so many proprietary BMS systems on the market, all with the inability to interface with the other, that's unfortunately never going to happen. A single bike shop could never afford to build up that kind of stock on the hopes of meeting the needs of that scenario. A more realistic idea would be having more infrastructure for ebike charging in place......

 

[Art Deco]

No offense but I think you are wrong, really. A standard bms default could work like a phone extender. The BMS doesn't have to do anything fancy if it just passes the power to the engine. Use the manufactures battery with all cool features , but default to the dumb external if present. Not hard code, just no standard. And a standard plug for all EVs while I'm dreaming.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

No offense taken. That stuff is all above my paygrade. It's more geared for those folks at Endless Sphere who dabble in that stuff. I just like to ride my Haibike and charge her up for the next ride. And if I plan on going really long distance, I'll bring along my two spare batteries with me. Problem solved.

 

[Art Deco]

Agreed. But our both problems (long range and stealth) and lots more less common ones can be solved by a stupid and cheap standard interface. Like propane tanks for BBQ grills. /end rant

 

[Alex M]

Yes, and I answered his question about the downtube batteries from Bosch, Yamaha, Brose and Shimano. They are a proprietary design onto themselves.

Bosch won't accept a 3rd party battery because of electric design, regardless of whether it is internal of external. Internal battery is (often) a proprietary form-factor, not just a proprietary electric design, this makes using 3-rd party difficult even when electronics is as restrictive as in Bosch battery.
This is why I'm all for external batteries - and as generic as possible, at that. Like BBQ propane tanks (love this comparison).

Yes, the OP should've specified the brand.

 

[Alex M]

A standard bms default could work like a phone extender. The BMS doesn't have to do anything fancy if it just passes the power to the engine. Use the manufactures battery with all cool features , but default to the dumb external if present. Not hard code, just no standard.

Would've been nice for us users, yes. Big brands would've lost some market share, though.

 

[tomjasz]

Another OP asking and then disappearing?

Battery building isn't for the faint of heart. There are a dozen pitfalls and a single battery build will likely cost more than an average, but safe built pack from reliable China factories.

 

[Art Deco]

Another OP asking and then disappearing?

Battery building isn't for the faint of heart. There are a dozen pitfalls and a single battery build will likely cost more than an average, but safe built pack from reliable China factories.

Seems to happen a lot
. I make a comment ... people leave ... coincidence?
Not a chance of me building a battery, when i was working with a computer shop the guy I hired said "Step away from the workbench, please"