Help with our first ebikes

[QuantumTwitch]

Jones has an elevated version(2.5" which is a lot) of their famous loop bars (these handlebars are very popular among tourers for their comfort, space and options of different hand positions) https://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-h-bar-loop-sg-2-5-aluminum-loop/ which eliminates the need for a stem swap.

Ah interesting. Since the LBS doesn't carry these I think once I'm down to the exact bike I'll need to research handlebars, discuss with the techs at the shop, order one and have them swap it out for me. Was hoping for more choice of swaps at the LBS but oh well - at least their choice of bikes was amazing

@Johnny any other brands you could recommend for handlebars. I don't want it very swept back like a cruiser. Need an in between MTB and Cruiser fit. Like upright commuters.

 

[Johnny]

@Johnny any other brands you could recommend for handlebars. I don't want it very swept back like a cruiser. Need an in between MTB and Cruiser fit. Like upright commuters.

Before you ride with them they may look like cruiser handlebars but they feel quite different in a good way(and comfortable on wrists).

This that puts together the well known offerings. https://cycletraveloverload.com/best-swept-back-handlebars-ultimate-list-of-22-mtb-bars/

 

[QuantumTwitch]

Advice needed on the Nevo GT vario vs Culture GT Touring vs Nevo3.

Made it out to the LBS with my wife. She tried some low top tube frames, but in the end she is way more comfortable on a step through. The step-throughs we tried out and shortlisted were the Bulls Lacuba Evo Lite and R&M Nevo GT Vario. Both could work but I wasn't happy with the range of gears on the Lacuba Evo Lite. It was too limited. The Nevo GT Vario is a floor model that is discounted by 600, which brings it to the same price point as the Lacuba Evo Lite which is how it landed up on the shortlist. After returning home, I noticed the LBS website also has a Culture GT discounted by 1000. But that one is the Touring with a derailleur. So for a couple of hundred less than Nevo GT vario we gain FS and lose the CVT. Now while I value the FS more I think my wife is better off with the CVT. Looking around for how the Nevo GT would fair on trails I found this (

) which I think is good enough for what my wife would like to try out - but I was hoping for something more adventurous . The front basket on the Culture is better than the front rack on the Nevo GT in our opinion - but maybe that can hold some sort of basket. I've read about repeated failure of @David Berry 's Homage - which looks like an identical frame design to the Culture. So I'm a little nervous about that. Though it could be more to do with the dual battery setup? If we go with the floor model we'd probably change the tires.

Are there any experiences with floor models? Anything to worry about or check for with these? I'm concerned about maintenance of the Gen2 Bosch on it but was told Bosch will support the motor for 7 years after manufacturing stops. That's reassuring.

Since we are actually considering the the Nevo GT I had to spec a Nevo3 Vario compare that too. It's definitely a considerable amount more and with that comes the Gen4 CX, but what else that might be worth that price bump?

 

[Johnny]

Nevo GT vario we gain FS and lose the CVT.

While having a better range than shimano's 5 speed on the Bulls Nuvinci cvt is still imited to %350. Moreover cvt's are very inefficient and you are losing up to an additional %15 compared to a derailleur setup. IMO if you are going for the gates route get rohloff.

Bosch will support the motor for 7 years after manufacturing stops

That's marketing don't buy into that. What matters is if the floor model is in good shape and comes with full warranty.

 

[QuantumTwitch]

While having a better range than shimano's 5 speed on the Bulls Nuvinci cvt is still imited to %350. Moreover cvt's are very inefficient and you are losing up to an additional %15 compared to a derailleur setup. IMO if you are going for the gates route get rohloff.

Yea I probably wouldn't do anything except a derailleur setup for myself. But my wife has 0 experience with gears on a cycle and this CVT definitely helps her. She's open to a derailleur setup (provided it has a numbered indicator) but that would mean ordering one new from R&M Germany - which is a long wait. Rohloff is out of budget. Right now we're seeing very limited options in her size.

That's marketing don't buy into that. What matters is if the floor model is in good shape and comes with full warranty.

R&M frame - 5 years, Bosch - 2 years, Enviolo - 2 years, everything else - 1 year.

 

[Johnny]

Yea I probably wouldn't do anything except a derailleur setup for myself. But my wife has 0 experience with gears on a cycle and this CVT definitely helps her. She's open to a derailleur setup (provided it has a numbered indicator) but that would mean ordering one new from R&M Germany - which is a long wait. Rohloff is out of budget. Right now we're seeing very limited options in her size.


R&M frame - 5 years, Bosch - 2 years, Enviolo - 2 years, everything else - 1 year.

Looks like original warranty, I think that is good.

Again I wouldn't do enviolo, I don't think shifting gears is hard to get used to I think she can get used to it easily.

Culture gt seems like a rare fs offering with a step through design. If it is also cheaper than the rest I would go for that one over the others.

 

[QuantumTwitch]

Again I wouldn't do enviolo, I don't think shifting gears is hard to get used to I think she can get used to it easily.

Culture gt seems like a rare fs offering with a step through design. If it is also cheaper than the rest I would go for that one over the others.

If still available we'll test ride it.

 

[QuantumTwitch]

I need help narrowing down to one of these bikes for myself:

1) Bulls Copperhead Evo AM4
2) Bulls E-Stream AM4
3) Bulls E-Stream 45 AM (class 3)

I've tested the Copperhead and E-Stream Class 1. 0 testing on the Brose TF or a class 3. Apart from the motors I can't tell the difference in the components while on a test ride. The Class 3 E-stream is in there well because it's a Class 3 and ticks all the other things discussed here and that might be fun while on roads . Needless to say whichever one I pick - I'm going to be fiddling with handlebars and stems to find that comfortable position. The loss of a dropper seat on the Class 3 means nothing to me.

Here's my spreadsheet with the specs for all 3 pulled from the Bulls USA website. The specs on the comparison tool here are not the same - my guess is that it's not updated for the latest model year.

I do like the feel of the Brose more than the Bosch. So my heart says Brose but my head for some reason says Bosch. I don't know if it's because I've read too much about reliability and availability of service and I perceived Bosch to come up on top in those areas. I've watched Court's reviews on all 3 bikes. What's swirling around in my head right now is:

1. E-Stream 45 AM has 2x11 gears - that wider ranger might be nicer for climbs? Would the 2x11 enhance or hamper my rides?
2. E-Stream 45 AM is the odd one out in terms of suspension using Rock Shox front and rear instead of Fox - which is better?
3. Court's written review on the E-stream 45 AM says that the speed restriction change makes no difference to how the bike climbs.
   

   this drive system climbs about the same as the standard Class 1 Brose T, S, and S Mag

   which is great because I'm only concerned about torque helping me up easily not how fast I can climb when on a trail.
4. The Class 1 restriction on trails is a bother. I don't want to speed on them. But since the bike is rated Class 3, it's a risk I'll have to bear if I go with the E-Stream 45. It's looking more attractive when I hear how much my wife is planning to use her bike on streets.
5. Shifters, cranksets, cassettes, derailleurs all vary slightly - I don't know anything about these - any advice for me on those?
6. Bosch has shift detection, Brose does not. Court said as long as you know how to shift it's not a big deal that the Brose doesn't have the shift detection built in. I'm no pro so I have no idea how much this would affect me. Any advice on this?
7. The Bosch has an automatic mode (eMTB) and the Brose does not. I do like auto assist, but the Brose was really nice and powerful even at level 2 assist. I didn't have to change that much during my test rides. (I found the Yamaha auto assist the better than the Bosch, but that bike is out of the running). Anyone found an auto assist mode invaluable or wish they had it?
8. Court spoke about batteries and said the range on the E-stream AM 4 with 750 Wh, would be more than the Copperhead AM 3 with the Bosch 625. I think that would depend on usage pattern but the larger battery does seem nicer to me. Also the class 3 E-Stream with the 650 Wh has the lowest estimated min-max range. Is that because they are factoring drag at higher speed? Or inefficiencies of the Brose TF vs The S mag? I thought the 650 Wh on the class 3 would mean a similar range as the 625 on the Bosch.
9. Court also praised Bosch's battery integration and said it's one of the more durable setups. And said their batteries too were more durable. How much more durable? Any known problems with the batteries on the other two?
10. Bosch has nicer displays - I'd really like it if I can upgrade the Bloks 14D to something a little larger and more central to the cockpit later or even one of the Brose branded control units when they're out.
11. LBS and a lot of folks out there praise Bosch units. I've heard really nice things about Brose units too in regards to noise levels, feel, power. But when it comes down to fixing them and number of problems, I start worrying. Granted it's mostly from Specialized units. But overall the reliability numbers seem like they are in Bosch's favour? LBS said there are more Bosch units out there across all manufacturers so statistically they sell fewer Brose units. They had 1 mechanical failure on a Brose they sold, which they managed to fix. This is where I'm most worried - over on eMTB forums people steer people away from the Specialized Brose units and reading some Specialized owners experiences is troubling.

Please help me decide - I'm tired now with all the research and want to start riding

 

[Johnny]

Questions 1,2,3

If higher speed is not a priority pick between the first two. All of them have good range so you don't need 2x11. Rockshox and Fox are both at the top as brands. Fox seem to name differently when it comes to oem components but the Fox 36's on these bikes should be at least as good or better than yari rc.

4. Again pick the speed you like according to your needs. The New bosch cx will be harder to de-restrict (at least right now).

5. All of them are good. I would prefer Sram sx eagle 12 speed in between them.

6. Shift detection is mostly a gimmick. You should shift carefully in any case, just ease before you shift and you will be fine.

7. Don't make your decision on a software mod like emtb. Most of the time you will be picking an assist level then just play with shifters anyways. In terms or riding Brose S-mag is smoother.

8. He is right, Brose seems to be more efficient and has a larger battery hence it will have better range.

9. I don't think Bosch is more durable than the others.

10. If you go for the Bosch route you may want the dealer to change the purion to kiox or new nyon (if available) or at least have the mount installed so that you can upgrade easily later.

11. Again if it is about riding quality Brose is the better choice(not much though). However Brose also seems to be below Bosch in terms of reliability(I think the newer models of Brose have improved significantly in that aspect but it is still something to keep in mind). Bosch is popular , reliable and easier to find a place to service.

Both AM 4 (S-mag) and AM3(Bosch cx) are very good offerings and similar bikes you will happy with either one of them. If the LBS that you will buy the bike from is close by you can go for Brose otherwise get the Bosch cx4.

 

[QuantumTwitch]

We pulled the trigger on our first ebikes - Copperhead AM 3 for me and the Nevo GT enviolo for my wife. She decided that she didn't like feel of derailleurs after all . Not yet in our possession - but soon .

Thanks for the help everyone. Hopefully you'll see a post with our new bikes on the garage or rides thread .