Has anyone ordered a Daymak Chameleon?

[OldGuy]

I've been interested in this bike. For $2K on Indiegogo you get a 2kwh 84v Li battery and 500W motor, and it qualifies as a bicycle, so you can use bike lanes or go up to 37mph on the street. Seems like a near-perfect urban vehicle to me.
I took a test ride on a GenZe 2.0 (3K$), and found that the riding position was horrible - monkey-bars up at shoulder height, and no adjustment possible.

 

[OldGuy]

Actually, let's amend this question - has anyone ever actually bought a DayMak bike and lived to tell about it?

 

[J.R.]

Actually, let's amend this question - has anyone ever actually bought a DayMak bike and lived to tell about it?

I've got all kinds of problems calling this an ebike! I think the cops would as well if your riding this without a license plate and in the bike lane going 35 mph or 40!

Not to insult your thread, but this isn't really the kind of ebike we discuss here. Here's a thread where e-scooters were discussed: "It still looks like a scooter"

Here's a review on ERR:http://electricridereview.com/daymak/chameleon/

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I've got all kinds of problems calling this an ebike! I think the cops would as well if your riding this without a license plate and in the bike lane going 35 mph or 40!
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Not to insult your thread, but this isn't really the kind of ebike we discuss here. Here's a thread where e-scooters were discussed: "It still looks like a scooter"

Here's a review on ERR:http://electricridereview.com/daymak/chameleon/

@OldGuy
It has an extremely heavy sealed lead acid battery.
As JR said, this is not a bike and with >100lbs weight, you better know what you are purchasing!

 

[George S.]

Court has a long video interview with the Daymak owner here:

http://electricbikereview.com/commu...founder-aldo-baiocchi-in-toronto-canada.3456/

Court has a review here:

http://electricridereview.com/daymak/chameleon/

 

[J.R.]

@George S. , I did include the ERR review in my response. I'm all for e-scooters and LEV's and glad they exist, just not for calling them bicycles. This Chameleon IGG campaign is the perfect example of the kind of false advertising crowdfunding can have, including the claim of this 500 watt scooter being able to climb a 39 degree incline, that's more than an 80% grade.

 

[George S.]

@J.R. I was confused about the second post "lived to tell about it" so I just linked to the review. I can't help but think a lot of what Baiocchi represents is the dumbed down future of ebiking. The really solid people who used to be here have drifted.

I'm trying to figure out what DIY vendors need to do to make sure people build a good bike. There is a need to differentiate the product, because these $1100 big box bikes could easily be what people buy. The ebikes that aren't really even bikes complicate things, but that includes the high performance DIY stuff.

If you end up buying a Cross Current I'd love to know what that bike can do. It's too aggressive for me, and I don't want the speed, but Tora is a hugely ambitious man and it looks like an iconic bike.

Plus the Thin hits IGG on Tuesday. The bike I would have made, from the start, not the fatty. Hmm. One thousand, or ten thousand?

 

[OldGuy]

I think it's pretty funny that the bicycle people and the "pure" e-bike people now have managed to get everyone to pay for bike lanes for low-speed travel, but aren't willing to let anything that doesn't meet their preconception of what low-speed vehicles look like use them.
If you make a bicycle aerodynamic and put lights and a throttle on it, it does not make it a scooter, and the rest is just plastic window-dressing. I'd put a plate on the back that says "It's a Bicycle".
I'd leave the pedals on, and I've got no problem keeping it down to 12mph in a busy bike lane. I do expect privileged bikies here to give me flak about the appearance, but a couple of years ago anyone on any e-bike in Portland was likely to get yelled at as a "cheater". Tough.

 

[Jim123]

J.R. this article has a section on higher watt systems https://www.electricbike.com/52v-battery-3077-fet/ . The Cameleon has shorter range than I would have guessed. The higher heat and less efficiency of higher volt FETs sounds like a good explanation. EBR doesn't have a moped community section that is separate from the bike section. I love hearing details about them here, even though the pedals are a legal bypass. Edit I looked closer at the Daymak review and it has 2 battery options. I thought the range was for the larger battery option. Further Edit: I have to agree with OldGuy in his statement about top speed. We can have speed limits AND sports cars. And because someone has a sport car, does not mean they have to travel with it floored. Electric cheating seems to be a spectrum disorder. Meaning even Ebikers can think another Ebiker is cheating. Handicaps and weight issues make the challenge of going out and enjoying a bike something that needs a crutch.

 

[George S.]

@OldGuy - People should accept that electric scooters are super efficient, so plenty 'green'. If you think a bike is something you pedal, it's hard to call this scooter a bike. It's going to be a mess, sorting this out. California basically threw the 28 mph ebikes off the bike paths. That was what they came up, just banning them.

Utah has a 75 pound limit on electric bikes, anyway.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

This scooter weighs 200lbs !!

 

[OldGuy]

"Not to insult your thread, but this isn't really the kind of ebike we discuss here."
Since there are a number of scooter-type e-bike reviews and a DayMak forum here, you may be mistaken.

"We can have speed limits AND sports cars. And because someone has a sport car, does not mean they have to travel with it floored. Electric cheating seems to be a spectrum disorder. Meaning even Ebikers can think another Ebiker is cheating."
Well said.

For myself, I've got two e-bikes (both can do 28mph on the flats) and a sports car, but I hate parking in the city, and it's not very effective to go to the grocery every other day if you can't pack enough food home on a bicycle.
A scooter like this would work great for my 70+ body and 800-ft. hill, as do the e-bikes, but this would have substantially more utility, and there are places around Portland (like all the bridges) where it would be extremely hazardous to travel with a 20-mph-limited vehicle, but which do have bike paths.
I'm also attracted by the thought that bike theft around here is probably a lot higher than for scooters parked in high-traffic areas, because you can strip and resell bike parts...

 

[stevebriggs]

I got this Daymak Eagle in May 2015, have been using it to commute to work (17km one way). Absolutely love it. Did have an issue last year where two of the factory chargers forgot when to shut off, and overcharged the battery. It was replaced under warranty but did mean I had to load the bike in the van and drive it 250 km south to the store I bought it from, and go back a week later to pick it up again. While it was in the shop I had it upgraded from 72v to 84v, and that was extremely worth it. I am 280 pounds, but I can get about 30km of range from a charge. On the flats it will do an indicated 67kph but I think the speedo and odo are 10-15 percent optimistic. The small fairing also added about 3 kph to the top speed. In town I can keep up with traffic and ride it as a motorcycle. The fat tires makes riding trails easy, but are terrible in snow. The cops have never looked twice at me so I took off the silly pedals and keep them in the front bag just in case. And just yesterday I ordered up a Chameleon!

 

[OldGuy]

Daymak is insisting that they will start shipping the Chameleon in May. Looking forward to mine.

 

[stevebriggs]

Daymak is insisting that they will start shipping the Chameleon in May. Looking forward to mine.

Yes, in fact two days ago the Daymak rep Domenico told me shipping April 31. So, at 227 pounds the lead acid Eagle is pretty heavy. On the Indiegogo page the lithium Chameleon is listed as 145 pounds. It will be interesting to see how the two 84V systems compare. At 5'11" I am not overly tall, and Court (at 5'9") does mention the Chameleon is a small/medium size scooter, so no double riding like the Eagle can do easily. The smaller tires (5" wide Eagle, 2.5" wide Chameleon) might transmit bumps more readily. And get rid of the fat old guy rider and stick a 130 pound teen on it, and the lithium Chameleon should be up in the 70 kph range i would think.

 

[George S.]

I think Walmart (US) is selling the Eagle online. I like the concept, but I like it a lot better with a lithium pack. The lithium packs are coming down in price. I don't know if I want to go 30 mph on most bikes. The roads are too rough. Maybe they can work this out, but I think those fat tires and big springs make a difference.

 

[stevebriggs]

Yes, when my lead cells die, I agree lithium will be the best. Being new to electric scooters i wanted to not break the bank until sure i was happy with the idea. Yes, US Walmart carries several Daymak scooters but not the Eagle it seems. And the term ebike is just misleading when applied to a machine like the Eagle or Chameleon, these are low power motorcycles. Here in Ontario, if a cop clocks you at >32 kph, you are legally going faster than the definition of ebike and are thus in need of license, registration and insurance. Both my car and my scooter can do double their respective speed limits, lol.

 

[stevebriggs]

I picked up the Chameleon yesterday in Toronto. This is one EXCELLENT scooter!

Essentially it is a Daymak Hamilton with a much improved drivetrain. Did a range test this morning, in 90 minutes it dragged my 280 pound butt 80 km before dying. This thing has gobs of torque, and they have engineered it so there is hardly any slowdown going up long hills. Very impressive. It is also light enough that i can pick it up and put it in my dodge caravan unassisted. Wow. I think the speedo and odo on this are accurate, unlike my Eagle which is about 10-12 percent optimistic. It will cruise at 55-57 kph as it is, maybe once i buy an android tablet to get at the controller app i might squeeze even more out. It uses electric motor breaking to really haul the thing down quickly. Seat is small and hard, not nearly as comfortable as the bigger Eagle. Very happy with it.

 

[OldGuy]

That's pretty new - still got protective plastic on the reflectors. Looks great, and they did a nice job on the grocery bin.

 

[stevebriggs]

Getting software access has been another adventure. I have all Apple stuff, so I went out and bought a 7 inch Android tablet just to run the Chameleon's Daymak Drive app. Could not install the app from the Google Play store, it said my device was not compatible. Wing at Daymak emailed me a version of the app which I was able to install. I can now access the normal motor controller functions. But this version of the app is missing the LED strip light functions, so I cannot turn on the LEDs. Very frustrating.