Has anyone had a hub motor fail?
- Thread starter tlippy
- Start date
Taylor57
Well-Known Member
According to Rich C he has had a Sonders Fat tire motor fail. Maybe he could share with us the outcome...
CdnShaun
Active Member
Recently had my first hub motor fail. Bionx D500 with 3000kms on it...with a 315lb down to 270lb rider up top. Made the mistake of attempting a 18% grade uphill climb on it.
If this was a more universal model motor (like a 9C or MAC motor for example) I would be both more likely to open it up and attempt to repair it myself or worse case replace it with the same/similar motor as a more universal DIY setup (such as my newer bikes) can literally plug and play (after reprogramming the controller of course) different motors without replacing the whole setup.
Even though bionx is DIY conversion in design, it's very much like an OEM build and difficult to deal with when failure occurs. I could replace the failed motor with an identical D500 Bionx motor (noting they are 2 years since going bankrupt) which funny enough, I happen to own - but this event has further pushed me to selling off all my (working) Bionx gear and strictly work with universal DIY type equipment moving ahead.
Perhaps you can share a bit more about the bike/model you have? That information would help us help you more in suggestions. What I offer above is a bit of comparable experience of someone else who is facing the same challenge you are.
Cheers
Shaun
If this was a more universal model motor (like a 9C or MAC motor for example) I would be both more likely to open it up and attempt to repair it myself or worse case replace it with the same/similar motor as a more universal DIY setup (such as my newer bikes) can literally plug and play (after reprogramming the controller of course) different motors without replacing the whole setup.
Even though bionx is DIY conversion in design, it's very much like an OEM build and difficult to deal with when failure occurs. I could replace the failed motor with an identical D500 Bionx motor (noting they are 2 years since going bankrupt) which funny enough, I happen to own - but this event has further pushed me to selling off all my (working) Bionx gear and strictly work with universal DIY type equipment moving ahead.
Perhaps you can share a bit more about the bike/model you have? That information would help us help you more in suggestions. What I offer above is a bit of comparable experience of someone else who is facing the same challenge you are.
Cheers
Shaun
Browneye
Well-Known Member
Yes, a Bafang 500w geared hub. Chronicled in my Roll build thread. 
And why it's sold down the road - got her a Giant/LIV Amiti with Yamaha mid-drive.
It was a giant PITA, spend a couple months trying to figure out what was wrong, spend a bunch of $$ throwing parts at it, and in the end it was replaced under warranty, but that took them a month.
NEVER AGAIN.
And why it's sold down the road - got her a Giant/LIV Amiti with Yamaha mid-drive.
It was a giant PITA, spend a couple months trying to figure out what was wrong, spend a bunch of $$ throwing parts at it, and in the end it was replaced under warranty, but that took them a month.
NEVER AGAIN.
rich c
Well-Known Member
Yup. 2015 model year Sondors with a 350w geared Bafang gear hub motor. At 1,600 miles I got a error code 03 when the motor got an odd stutter. Checked the connections, nothing. Shut everything off, turned it back on. As soon as I touched the throttle, same stutter and 03 code. Got it home and plugged the dead bike into a second identical Sondors I had. Motor stutter and got an 03 code on the display on the second bike. I am a member of the Sondors owners page on Facebook. A guy named Bruce was doing all the repairs for Sondors at his apartment at the time. I pulled the center section of the motor from the case and mailed it to Bruce. He found cold solder joints on the Hall sensors, soldered them and mailed it back. Put it in the case and all looked good. Went out on the rail trail and it lasted 6 miles when I got another stutter and 03 code. Talked to Bruce and he said a shipment of motors was coming with a container of bikes. I waited a couple of months and he sent me a new motor core for no cost. I was really grateful and thanked him a LOT! He really went above and beyond to send that to me when Sondors really didn't have a warranty program. I put another 100 miles on it and then parked it as I preferred my Haibikes so much more. Sold the 2 Sondors this year.
tlippy
Active Member
Shengyi 500 watt geared hub BUT I believe there are many different models, with varying prices. Just thinking in advance of a possible scenario. U reckon it's possible to get a replacement motor and just slip it in? Rather than have to buy a whole wheel assembly? I've seen some poor guys bend a back rim (by jumping curbs, I think) and I've never seen them post how they got the bike runnibg again.
CdnShaun
Active Member
You are very much correct, lol.
The older P series (I have 2 of them) are much easier to open. The motor I had fail is the larger 'medium pizza size' D500 series motor which is basically 'sealed' or glued together.
If I was keeping with Bionx equipment in my fleet I would make the effort to open the failed motor up over the winter and immediately replace it with the spare I have from another bike. I've decided to move on from Bionx and work with Grin's CA3's, PhaseRunners and universal style motors such as 9C's and possibly GMACs.
Brand New 9C Hub motor is only $335 CDN plus spokes/rim for example if I ever need one in the future.
That said, I LOVE OEM bikes and my friends who ride them have great luck with them. I'm just a DIY type of guy I suppose.
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CdnShaun
Active Member
This could work for sure. What controller do you have on the bike?
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Bafangs are "just slipped in" frequently....
Scott Adams
Active Member
I've thought about doing the same thing, deciding which torque sensor to use has kept me from doing it as of yet...
If you already have your new system running, which torque sensor did you buy and how would you compare the behavior and performance of the system to your Bionx?
rich c
Well-Known Member
If I remember correctly, the motor that Sondors uses will take guts rated at 350,500, or 750w. All fit in the exact same outer case. The 750 has a different connector, so a different controller is needed.Seriously?I am amazed. I thought if you change the motor the wheel needed re laced ?
D
Deleted member 4210
Guest
Never. Sold over a 1000 ebikes with hub motors. NOT one has ever failed.
tlippy
Active Member
WOW!! That's the news I like to hear
D
Deleted member 4210
Guest
Me too. When it comes to ebikes as a shop owner, and primary service man (degreed mechanical engineer) I actually really wanna be like the Maytag Repair Man from their old commercials, that some people are too young to remember, and sadly have likely never experienced machines or ANY appliance lasting 25 to 30 years before thinking about replacing. And service should never be a profit center for any ebike shop. (Though I suspect a number of pure analogue bike shops would be in horror reading this right now.)
CdnShaun
Active Member
I'm guessing if you sold a mountain bike with a 500 watt motor to a 300lb 'built like an O-Lineman' you might warn him not to try and climb a 20% grade hill? ;-)
I didn't get that warning...realize my mistake and that while hub motors are nearly bullet proof, even they have limits.
CdnShaun
Active Member
Happy to help Scott,
On my new builds (2 so far) I have gone with products from www.ebikes.ca (Grin Technologies).
The motors are 9C 212 series Hub Motors...in both builds I happen to decide to go with 2WD. Road bike for the summer, Fat bike for dirt/winter. All motors are connected to PhaseRunner Controllers.
Connected to the PhaseRunners is Grin's famous Bike computer? (not sure what to call it exactly, lol) Cycle Analyst 3 (CA3 for short).
I did try (for testing and experience) a PAS sensor for $30 and to have as a 'quick fix' backup if ever needed. Good experience, taught me I realllllly like Torque sensors.
Finally, here are the various torque sensors Grin sells:
PAS/Torque Sensors - Ebike Parts - Shop
Options to add automatic pedal assistance to engage the motor on your bike.
www.ebikes.ca
and here is a nice write up about the different manufacturers of torque sensors Grin offers:
PAS Options - Getting Started
Most ebikes these days offer some form of automated pedal control (PAS = Pedal Assist System), where the motor is powered in response to you pedaling the cranks and not just from a throttle on the handlebar. Here we summarize both the Cadence based and Torque based PAS sensors available for all...
www.ebikes.ca
The exact model I have installed now is this ERider unit:
ERider68_4B
ERider-T9N Torque Sensor for 68mm BB Shells with 170mm Miranda Cranks and 4 Bolt 104mm BCD Chainring Spider. Side Cable Exit. Chainrings Not Included. NOTE: Certain ERider setups are succeptible to electrical noise from the controller causing intermittent cutout behavior. This can be solved by...
www.ebikes.ca
Notes from using it thus far:
-Install was so easy. No drilling a cable exit hole (part of why I chose it) as the cable exits the left side and runs up to the CA3 on the handle bars. I bought the proper BB tools for $30 from Amazon and swapped the BB myself at home.
-The 165mm cranks it comes with are great. If you want to change the cranks (length, type, etc) you simply need to purchase a model with the 'square hole' type connection.
-Bonus: In my case this setup works perfect with my 2WD setup which is a relief as I didn't know until I had it installed how well it would work.
Experience:
-The superman feeling when you press down on the pedals mid-ride is exactly the same as my Bionx.
-The only slight difference is the engagement of the motors compared to Bionx - Bionx is basically 'instant' - The BB model takes about a 1/2 to 1 full revolution of the cranks on my current setup. There is settings I will dial down (CA3 is amazing for customizing) but the manual warns setting it too low can cause other issues such as a chatter-like throttle response. As it is now I'm super happy.
-As my road going bike is rather heavy (around 200lbs before rider) I simply use the thumb throttle when I launch each time, it's automatic in my experience already and unique to my first main bike being so heavy.
Bonus - with this setup the CA3 displays (and if you get the optional data recorder, records and keeps) your Human Watts input to the pedals. This saved me spending $300 to ???? dollars on a set of non-e style watt meter pedals to gain this information. I average between 150-180 watts of input is what I have learned and look forward to seeing my improvement over the years to come.
If budget is an issue, I believe these torque sensors are compatible with connecting directly to the controller of your choice - plug and play if it's a controller from Grin, wiring diagram if needed for others.
To also share, I have the programming software for my Bionx bikes. It allowed me to change the 25/50/100/200 boost settings to other levels that helped me have more of a fine tuned riding experience for each bike and my riding type/weight/etc.
The CA3 takes this experience to a whole other level of customization. With the digital input by my thumb I simply selected the 9 level of PAS option. It took my maximum boost factor (currently set to 8X human watts, silly, I know, lol) and now I have 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7, and 8X at the touch of my thumb. I riding mostly in 2-4X (270lb rider, 200lb bike) and just like the Bionx 'level 4' I can dial all the way up to 8X for the steepest of hill climbs...
...with 2 x 1500watts of motor pulling my fat butt all the way up and never breaking 45C in temperatures.
I will follow up with my experience of my fat bike using the same motors/controllers/CA3 and a different BB model (SEMPU-175 for the 100mm bottom bracket the bike has) when it's complete and I have a few rides on it.
Have a look at the links I included here and if you have any questions feel free to quote my reply here (so I see the alert when I log in next, like I did today) or PM me any questions you may have.
Cheers
Shaun
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FlatSix911
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Silicon Valley
Good to hear... how long are the motors covered by an OEM warranty?
