Grizl:ON CF 7 - Puppy Delivered to Vet

Sounds about right. IIRC, when I was considering bikes with the Sprint motor the Bosch range calculator was showing 35-45 miles for my typical riding speed/conditions. 10wh/mi in decently rolling terrain with moderate assist. High speed >mid20's mph eats battery, but the real range killer in urban/suburban rides are the many stops and accelerations. I'm always surprised when I get out on a trail how the range improves.where you can push a steady pace for miles.

FYI, it's likely your speedo is reading fast. Bosch is kind of notorious for that. On my older bike the power drop off starts at 26.5 (actual) mph and is mostly gone by 27.5mph. My newer bike is probably about the same though I haven't bothered trying to calibrate too close - its speedo is somewhere btw 2-2.5 mph fast. Assist drops to imperceptible at 29.3mph (per the speedo) for me.
 
Sounds about right. IIRC, when I was considering bikes with the Sprint motor the Bosch range calculator was showing 35-45 miles for my typical riding speed/conditions. 10wh/mi in decently rolling terrain with moderate assist. High speed >mid20's mph eats battery, but the real range killer in urban/suburban rides are the many stops and accelerations. I'm always surprised when I get out on a trail how the range improves.where you can push a steady pace for miles.

FYI, it's likely your speedo is reading fast. Bosch is kind of notorious for that. On my older bike the power drop off starts at 26.5 (actual) mph and is mostly gone by 27.5mph. My newer bike is probably about the same though I haven't bothered trying to calibrate too close - its speedo is somewhere btw 2-2.5 mph fast. Assist drops to imperceptible at 29.3mph (per the speedo) for me.

Could be... but I note that @Mr. Coffee (back in 2018 or so) calculated that speedometer error on his Bosch CX line was in the low single-digit percentages. I could believe it's off by 1 MPH, but I think it's just as likely that because the wheel size is odd (28 inches, which I love, as it turns out), they may not have set the limit on the motor quite right. Without a radar gun or a pace car with a tested speedometer, we'll never know.
 
My Bosch powered bike reads 1mph high, so I don't use the speed reading through the Kiox at all. I have a Garmin speed sensor on the front hub, and connect it to my 840, which I have set on "Auto". The 840 measured wheel circumference is within 2mm of what Schwalbe publishes for the Big Ben tire. Eventually, I'll roll it out to check.
 
I have a Garmin speed sensor on the front hub, and connect it to my 840, which I have set on "Auto".
Isn't the 840 a speedometer itself based on the GPS readouts? Why the redundancy?
My 540 is connected to Vado 6.0, and the Wheel Circumference is Auto there. The reported speed and distance are very accurate; the distance ridden matches the Strava map data to fractions of a percent. (The speed accuracy is confirmed by public speed radars of the area where I live). Interestingly, Wahoo allows Auto for any bike or e-bike unless it is a connected e-bike; the latter requires entering a fixed wheel circumference value.

I think the Grizl speed discrepancy might be caused by a wrong Wheel Circumference in the e-bike system. Let me give you a real world example:
My female riding mate Anna owns a Bosch e-bike. On our early rides, Anna rode very slowly, just barely above 21 km/h but she told me the display reported as many as 25 km/h, and she was experiencing the speed restrictor on whenever she tried pedalling stronger. I confirmed that by riding my Vado SL side by side with her, and watching my and her speedometers. I recommended to Anna she should see a Bosch dealer and she did so. Turned out, the Wheel Circumference in the e-bike system was half a metre wrong! After the change of WhC by the dealer, Anna's e-bike started behaving normally, and could be ridden faster, with the actual cut off speed of 25 km/h.
 
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I think the Grizl speed discrepancy might be caused by a wrong Wheel Circumference in the e-bike system.
That’s exactly how my Juiced controller/display works. You set the wheel circumference in one of the menus. I assumed @Catalyzt had already looked into that, assuming it’s possible on that bike.
 
Isn't the 840 a speedometer itself based on the GPS readouts? Why the redundancy?
Because, in my experience over many years owning a Garmin device, the hub sensor is a lot more accurate than GPS. I've always used a hub sensor because of this. Now, the 840 uses a more modern set of satellites than the ones in my past, so maybe the GPS speed is as accurate as a sensor. For now, I'm happy with going with what I know.
 
On a BES2 bike, changing the wheel diameter in the display settings only affects the displayed speed and has no affect on the assist cutoff speed. The dealer can further change it, but to do anything that potentially changes the cutoff the mfgr has to get involved. I would be very surprised if things are any different with BES3.
 
On a BES2 bike, changing the wheel diameter in the display settings only affects the displayed speed and has no affect on the assist cutoff speed. The dealer can further change it, but to do anything that potentially changes the cutoff the mfgr has to get involved. I would be very surprised if things are any different with BES3.
However it was done, Anna could ride her Flyer at 25 km/h today while her actual max assist speed was some 22 km/h last year.
 
I should post this in a Canyon or Bosch forum as well, because I think this is important:

Why you probably really need a remote for the Smart System and priorities for selecting one:

After riding the Grizl:ON for a couple of weeks, I am more and more convinced that the remote is a real necessity if you live in terrain with a lot of hills.

1) The inconvenience of shifting from the controller on the top tube, to me, is mostly just a nuisance, not a big deal except...

2) Having to hold down the power button for three seconds to decrease PAS is a serious problem. It's much worse than having to reach way down the down tube to shift an old-school racing bike with non-indexed shifters. There are two dangers:

a) Decreasing PAS later than you want to because you are waiting for an opportunity to ride with one hand on the bars safely. This is inefficient in terms of battery usage and not at all ergonomic. Three seconds with your thumb on the top tube is even less fun than it seems like.

b) You will hit the power button by accident and shut the bike off occasionally, at least in the first weeks you are using the system. The power and PAS buttons are only about four inches apart. That is potentially dangerous. It is kind of a big deal, and it's surprising that Bosch-- with all their irritating safety warnings both in the Flow app and in the Bible-thick manual-- did not really seem to consider this.

Okay, so now you want to select a remote. Which one? There are, in fact, so many options and compatibility issues that it may take you a few weeks to make a decision, so here is how I made mine:

I prefer the simplest and cheapest; I see no reason to add any weight or extra technology / distraction / for the Kiox readouts or even the Purion 200. All the information in the Kiox is in the Flow app on your phone, which you probably have to carry anyway, at least for any ride where you're concerned about stats. (For a ride to the supermarket, mailbox, or ATM, or a 20-30 minute fitness ride, you may not need the data, or your phone, and you can leave it at home. Yay!) For most rides, just put the phone in a holder on the bars, avoid the extra weight and complication of a secondary readout.

The Purion 200 seems like overkill because it just duplicates the information in the Smart System top tube display-- and while it's hard to press a button on the top tube for three seconds, checking the readout on the top tube optically is not distracting for me, if I need to at all.

The case for using the 3300 remote (22.2 mm clamp) instead of the 3310 remote (31.8 clamp) on (some) 31.8mm gravel drop bars for the Bosch Smart System:

If you use the 3310 as recommended, which would seem most logical, you may actually be more limited in the remote placement. You will have to put the remote near the center of the bars. But think about it: If you ride with your hands on the hood a lot, exactly how convenient is this? At a minimum, you have to take one hand away from the brake lever, something I never had to do on my eMTBs.

However, if you use the 3300, you can mount the remote right under the bars, where you can operate it even while squeezing the brake levers:

20250625_170748.jpg

20250625_170632.jpg


This gives you the option of doing wild James Bond drifts or power slides by making PAS changes while you have the brakes locked to escape from SPECTRE goons. (I am kidding, not even sure drifts or power slides are possible, let alone prudent, on a gravel bike.)

Potential drawbacks: You do have to remove some tape on the bars below the hoods. I don't like doing that myself, when I've tried it, it always ends badly, and for me, it's woth the extra money to have someone do this for me. Also: battery changes. The guy I worked with at C Street Bikes in Studio City mounted mine so the screw to release the clamp is accessible. In theory, the clamp should stay secured to the bars by the tape after unscrewing the clamp and flipping up the unit to replace the battery, so this may turn out to be a feature, not a bug. We shall see!
 
I don't quite understand. The 22.2 mm Mini Remote is for flat handlebar. The diameter of a drop handlebar is 25 mm in the grip area and it is 31.8 mm at the stem. How would you install a 22.2 mm remote on a 25 mm bar? Shouldn't you use the 31.8 mm Mini Remote Dropbar with a shim to 25 mm on the drop bars? Mini Remote Dropbar comes together with the Display Mount kit!
 
I should post this in a Canyon or Bosch forum as well, because I think this is important:

Why you probably really need a remote for the Smart System and priorities for selecting one:

After riding the Grizl:ON for a couple of weeks, I am more and more convinced that the remote is a real necessity if you live in terrain with a lot of hills.

1) The inconvenience of shifting from the controller on the top tube, to me, is mostly just a nuisance, not a big deal except...

2) Having to hold down the power button for three seconds to decrease PAS is a serious problem. It's much worse than having to reach way down the down tube to shift an old-school racing bike with non-indexed shifters. There are two dangers:

a) Decreasing PAS later than you want to because you are waiting for an opportunity to ride with one hand on the bars safely. This is inefficient in terms of battery usage and not at all ergonomic. Three seconds with your thumb on the top tube is even less fun than it seems like.

b) You will hit the power button by accident and shut the bike off occasionally, at least in the first weeks you are using the system. The power and PAS buttons are only about four inches apart. That is potentially dangerous. It is kind of a big deal, and it's surprising that Bosch-- with all their irritating safety warnings both in the Flow app and in the Bible-thick manual-- did not really seem to consider this.

Okay, so now you want to select a remote. Which one? There are, in fact, so many options and compatibility issues that it may take you a few weeks to make a decision, so here is how I made mine:

I prefer the simplest and cheapest; I see no reason to add any weight or extra technology / distraction / for the Kiox readouts or even the Purion 200. All the information in the Kiox is in the Flow app on your phone, which you probably have to carry anyway, at least for any ride where you're concerned about stats. (For a ride to the supermarket, mailbox, or ATM, or a 20-30 minute fitness ride, you may not need the data, or your phone, and you can leave it at home. Yay!) For most rides, just put the phone in a holder on the bars, avoid the extra weight and complication of a secondary readout.

The Purion 200 seems like overkill because it just duplicates the information in the Smart System top tube display-- and while it's hard to press a button on the top tube for three seconds, checking the readout on the top tube optically is not distracting for me, if I need to at all.

The case for using the 3300 remote (22.2 mm clamp) instead of the 3310 remote (31.8 clamp) on (some) 31.8mm gravel drop bars for the Bosch Smart System:

If you use the 3310 as recommended, which would seem most logical, you may actually be more limited in the remote placement. You will have to put the remote near the center of the bars. But think about it: If you ride with your hands on the hood a lot, exactly how convenient is this? At a minimum, you have to take one hand away from the brake lever, something I never had to do on my eMTBs.

However, if you use the 3300, you can mount the remote right under the bars, where you can operate it even while squeezing the brake levers:

View attachment 195885
View attachment 195886

This gives you the option of doing wild James Bond drifts or power slides by making PAS changes while you have the brakes locked to escape from SPECTRE goons. (I am kidding, not even sure drifts or power slides are possible, let alone prudent, on a gravel bike.)

Potential drawbacks: You do have to remove some tape on the bars below the hoods. I don't like doing that myself, when I've tried it, it always ends badly, and for me, it's woth the extra money to have someone do this for me. Also: battery changes. The guy I worked with at C Street Bikes in Studio City mounted mine so the screw to release the clamp is accessible. In theory, the clamp should stay secured to the bars by the tape after unscrewing the clamp and flipping up the unit to replace the battery, so this may turn out to be a feature, not a bug. We shall see!
I am a huge proponent of keeping your hands on the bars as much as humanly possible. When I got a Garmin Edge 530 I immediately got the remote for it as well.
Last thing I wanted to do was to be fiddle farting around trying to switch pages of info from stats to maps etc. and miss the fact I was going to hit a freakin' pothole with only one hand on the bars.
Forget that... the remote is the answer. I support the idea.
 
I should post this in a Canyon or Bosch forum as well, because I think this is important:

Why you probably really need a remote for the Smart System and priorities for selecting one:

After riding the Grizl:ON for a couple of weeks, I am more and more convinced that the remote is a real necessity if you live in terrain with a lot of hills.

1) The inconvenience of shifting from the controller on the top tube, to me, is mostly just a nuisance, not a big deal except...

2) Having to hold down the power button for three seconds to decrease PAS is a serious problem. It's much worse than having to reach way down the down tube to shift an old-school racing bike with non-indexed shifters. There are two dangers:

a) Decreasing PAS later than you want to because you are waiting for an opportunity to ride with one hand on the bars safely. This is inefficient in terms of battery usage and not at all ergonomic. Three seconds with your thumb on the top tube is even less fun than it seems like.

b) You will hit the power button by accident and shut the bike off occasionally, at least in the first weeks you are using the system. The power and PAS buttons are only about four inches apart. That is potentially dangerous. It is kind of a big deal, and it's surprising that Bosch-- with all their irritating safety warnings both in the Flow app and in the Bible-thick manual-- did not really seem to consider this.

Okay, so now you want to select a remote. Which one? There are, in fact, so many options and compatibility issues that it may take you a few weeks to make a decision, so here is how I made mine:

I prefer the simplest and cheapest; I see no reason to add any weight or extra technology / distraction / for the Kiox readouts or even the Purion 200. All the information in the Kiox is in the Flow app on your phone, which you probably have to carry anyway, at least for any ride where you're concerned about stats. (For a ride to the supermarket, mailbox, or ATM, or a 20-30 minute fitness ride, you may not need the data, or your phone, and you can leave it at home. Yay!) For most rides, just put the phone in a holder on the bars, avoid the extra weight and complication of a secondary readout.

The Purion 200 seems like overkill because it just duplicates the information in the Smart System top tube display-- and while it's hard to press a button on the top tube for three seconds, checking the readout on the top tube optically is not distracting for me, if I need to at all.

The case for using the 3300 remote (22.2 mm clamp) instead of the 3310 remote (31.8 clamp) on (some) 31.8mm gravel drop bars for the Bosch Smart System:

If you use the 3310 as recommended, which would seem most logical, you may actually be more limited in the remote placement. You will have to put the remote near the center of the bars. But think about it: If you ride with your hands on the hood a lot, exactly how convenient is this? At a minimum, you have to take one hand away from the brake lever, something I never had to do on my eMTBs.

However, if you use the 3300, you can mount the remote right under the bars, where you can operate it even while squeezing the brake levers:

View attachment 195885
View attachment 195886

This gives you the option of doing wild James Bond drifts or power slides by making PAS changes while you have the brakes locked to escape from SPECTRE goons. (I am kidding, not even sure drifts or power slides are possible, let alone prudent, on a gravel bike.)

Potential drawbacks: You do have to remove some tape on the bars below the hoods. I don't like doing that myself, when I've tried it, it always ends badly, and for me, it's woth the extra money to have someone do this for me. Also: battery changes. The guy I worked with at C Street Bikes in Studio City mounted mine so the screw to release the clamp is accessible. In theory, the clamp should stay secured to the bars by the tape after unscrewing the clamp and flipping up the unit to replace the battery, so this may turn out to be a feature, not a bug. We shall see!
I haven’t ridden a bike like this, Catalyzt, but I think it’s borderline irresponsible not to be providing a handlebar-mounted display/control-box for an ebike. Adjusting PAS by fiddling with buttons/controls/display on the top tube is just wrong. Pardon my French. At a minimum, the bike should’ve come with a remote like you’ve done.

Anyway, it looks like you came up with a good solution. Only you can judge if you like that positioning — it looks a little odd to me — but it’s certainly the right idea, Catalyzt!
 
The question is whether Cat has already installed the remote or he thinks he could install a 22.2 mm remote on a 25 mm bar :)
The Mini Remote Dropbar (31.8 mm) allows installing the remote either near to the stem or to install it elsewhere with a 25 mm shim, which is certainly delivered in the Kit.
 
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One of the nicer things about the BES3 Bosch system is its flexibility. A manufacturer can design an e-bike with *design* as the priority, like this bike. The Pinarello Nytro is another one. Clean lines. Minimal options. Pick your assist and just ride. If you want to switch assist modes with the terrain, like an e-MTB, add a remote. The manufacturer has no idea what you plan to do with the bike once you purchase it. Catalyzt is a fiddler. He wants to dial in performance in multiple domains at any moment on his rides. Good for him. He needs a remote. Other guys may just want to ride at a single assist level and let their legs and the gearing adapt to the terrain. They don't need a remote.

On my BES2 bike, I switch modes maybe twice per ride. On my race bike, I added Di2 sprint shifters, because, I was sprinting a lot. The average rider would have no use for them at all.

Drive unit control is just another thing to consider when choosing an e-bike.
 
The question is whether Cat has already installed the remote or he thinks he can install a 22.2 mm remote on a 25 mm bar :)
The Mini Remote Dropbar (31.8 mm) allows installing the remote either near to the stem or to install it elsewhere with a 25 mm shim, which is certainly delivered in the Kit.
Stef, did you see the picture? It’s installed beneath the brake pull lever.
 
One of the nicer things about the BES3 Bosch system is its flexibility. A manufacturer can design an e-bike with *design* as the priority, like this bike. The Pinarello Nytro is another one. Clean lines. Minimal options. Pick your assist and just ride. If you want to switch assist modes with the terrain, like an e-MTB, add a remote. The manufacturer has no idea what you plan to do with the bike once you purchase it. Catalyzt is a fiddler. He wants to dial in performance in multiple domains at any moment on his rides. Good for him. He needs a remote. Other guys may just want to ride at a single assist level and let their legs and the gearing adapt to the terrain. They don't need a remote.

On my BES2 bike, I switch modes maybe twice per ride. On my race bike, I added Di2 sprint shifters, because, I was sprinting a lot. The average rider would have no use for them at all.

Drive unit control is just another thing to consider when choosing an e-bike.
I guess I’ll give you that, Chris. I’m used to frequent PAS level shifting on my bike, and that’s during almost all trail riding. The way my bike works, and the reason I got it in the first place, is that I need extremely flexible control over my assist, so not having immediate and easy control of the assist is contrary to my purposes.

Anyway, to each his own, I guess.
 
Stef, did you see the picture? It’s installed beneath the brake pull lever.
How do you know it is Cat's photo? The drop bar diameter is constant 25 mm in the grip area, and it is 31.8 mm in the stem area. For me, it sounds improbable one could install a ring of a smaller diameter on a tube of a larger diameter. The Bosch Mini Remote Dropbar was not called so by a mistake... It is 31.8 mm, and comes with a Kit including small parts, certainly a shim.

Charlie, I understand you have never ridden drop handlebars but Chris should certainly say something about it.
1750938016556.png

22.2 mm is the diameter of the grip area on flat handlebars.
 
Stef, I read this (below) to imply that this was his. Could be wrong….
Then I need to learn whether Canyon is as non-standard as to make 22.2 mm drop handlebars and how they handled the standard 25 mm hoods as well as brake-shifter levers on a skinny handlebar.
A big mystery.
I hope Cat gets up early and tells us the story!

P.S. It has just occurred to me the Mini Remote mount might be not a ring but a split ring with long screws. So there is a 2.8 mm gap between both split ring halves.
 
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