I am thinking about purchasing a Bike Friday New World Tourist ebike. The specs say it will be built with a front hub motor but these bikes are highly configurable and I’m pretty sure I can get this built with a rear hub motor. Most of what I have read has said rear hub feels more natural and is preferred. Has anyone experienced both?
Front or Rear hub motor??
- Thread starter Augiesma
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Dewey
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- Arlington, Virginia
My first foray into ebikes was a Hill Topper front hub motor kit I used for two weeks before deciding to return it. I didn’t like the weight on the front wheel, and as a 24v motor it wasn’t strong enough for my hill climbing needs. Earlier this year I tried a 36v rear hub Bikeshare ebike from Helbiz (Genze 200 series) and liked it, felt like riding a bike being given a push, although I’m happy with my mid-drive kit motor on my daily rider.
FlatSix911
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After you watch the first video, you may want to view the follow-up on the mid-drive.
I don't want to start a debate... just want to share the information on the pros and cons to help with good decision making.
I don't want to start a debate... just want to share the information on the pros and cons to help with good decision making.
Thanks, I’ve seen this video which is why I asked Bike Friday to make the bike with a rear hub motor but they were trying to talk me into the front, saying it works just as well, easier to fix a back tire flat, etc. I just wanted to confirm here that rear is best and I will continue to request the rear hub.
I have two front hub motor bicycles and my experience has been very positive. The advantage was it is the easiest to install if you want to build yourself and it works extremely well with folding bicycles. The bikes I have are Tern folders (Verge S8i and the Eclipse) that have 8 speed and an 11 speed internal hub rear trannies. I couldn't do this with a rear mount motor. I would have to throw the trannies out. The Alfine hubs are great shifters. You can shift into any gear while you are stopped. With a derailed system you can't do this. Also the Verge bike has a Gates belt drive. That means low maintenance and a clean bike. The Eclipse has a chain but wrapped in a plastic covering. I don't like detailers and chains, that such old school like cable brakes and rim brakes.
The one disadvantage with a mid drive and maybe people overlook is the stress on the chain or belt. The rear and front hub not so much. Expect to change your chain every few thousand miles and the derailed gears as well. I expect to get a few tens of thousands miles from the gates belt.
As for feeling pushed or pulled, I don't really notice anything other than the bike goes. Now if you wanted a bike for the trails, then the rear drive is probably your best bet over a front motor. Climbing a hill or riding is loose gravel is not so good with a front hub motor. The best for trails would be the mid drive because the centre of mass is better when it is balanced. You also can get some really expensive models with mid drive.
These are some of my opinions and experiences with my bikes.
The one disadvantage with a mid drive and maybe people overlook is the stress on the chain or belt. The rear and front hub not so much. Expect to change your chain every few thousand miles and the derailed gears as well. I expect to get a few tens of thousands miles from the gates belt.
As for feeling pushed or pulled, I don't really notice anything other than the bike goes. Now if you wanted a bike for the trails, then the rear drive is probably your best bet over a front motor. Climbing a hill or riding is loose gravel is not so good with a front hub motor. The best for trails would be the mid drive because the centre of mass is better when it is balanced. You also can get some really expensive models with mid drive.
These are some of my opinions and experiences with my bikes.
I just went to Bike Friday's site. A couple things I like and a couple I don't like. First, I think disc brakes are a must with electric bikes and this is only available on their cargo unless I didn't get the right information. Second I would definitely go with the front hub motor ... that belt drive is ideal for less maintenance and no messy oil. I also think the wheels are on small side. Is this a folder? I like the Big Apple tires that are found on lots of 20" wheels because of the quality of the ride. Nice a soft that is without suspension if you keep the inflation level down a little bit. OK that's what I see.
There are so many different e-bikes on the market and if I had to buy, Bike Friday won't be on my short list. Especially their electric models.
There are so many different e-bikes on the market and if I had to buy, Bike Friday won't be on my short list. Especially their electric models.
I can’t use a mid hub because I’m looking for a
They told me they could config with disc brakes for me. What I don’t like is the front hub motor because from what I’ve read it takes some getting used to. Not as natural a feel. They also don’t mention the wattage of the motor and when I emailed to ask instead of telling me, the answer was a long winded way of saying why do you need to know?! I have a feeling it’s more of a commuter than a touring bike. What I do like is the weight (33 lbs) but I don’t know if it’s worth it. I love the Blix Vika + but us heavy! 56 lbs! What good is folding if I can’t lift it?! But the size is good. I’m an older female, 5’0”, so it’s hard to find a bike small enough. The Blix is and cute too!
Dewey
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- USA
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- Arlington, Virginia
You could ask them the model number of the motor instead. Justin Lemire-Elmore of Grin Tech has a motor simulator that lets you change the model and wheel size, among the options are the Bafang G31X hub motors he sells for 20” folding bikes and he has a product page about them, Bike Friday’s website says they use a Bafang hub motor for the NWT rear hub conversion, and they use Grin Tech’s LiGo batteries so there is a good chance they are getting their motor from them as well and so the performance characteristics will be similar if not identical. Rim brakes are commonly specced on touring bikes because they are lightweight and easy to service in remote resource poor countries, but you’ll see on the G31X product page there is a disk brake option, presumably how BF are able to offer that as a build option to you. Bike Friday are all about customizing the bike to you.
Grin Tech are IMO the best DIY ebike shop in the world, Justin is a legend for his transparency (see his Motor Simulator and Endless Sphere forum), his engineering skill (LiGo batteries, all-axle motor design, Grinfineon programmable controllers, Cycle Satiator charger, Cycle Analyst display, etc) and his incredible touring adventures, (he was the first person to ride an ebike across Canada, and check out the video of his honeymoon tour to Iran), plus he’s a great guy - he just helped troubleshoot over email an electrical wiring problem on my bike, so I’m pleased Bike Friday are working with him.
Motor Simulator https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html
Bafang G31X product page https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/geared.html
Solar tandem Tour from Europe to Iran
Grin Tech are IMO the best DIY ebike shop in the world, Justin is a legend for his transparency (see his Motor Simulator and Endless Sphere forum), his engineering skill (LiGo batteries, all-axle motor design, Grinfineon programmable controllers, Cycle Satiator charger, Cycle Analyst display, etc) and his incredible touring adventures, (he was the first person to ride an ebike across Canada, and check out the video of his honeymoon tour to Iran), plus he’s a great guy - he just helped troubleshoot over email an electrical wiring problem on my bike, so I’m pleased Bike Friday are working with him.
Motor Simulator https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html
Bafang G31X product page https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/geared.html
Solar tandem Tour from Europe to Iran
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This is what it says for the rear conversion kit, although they are still trying to talk me into the front kit: E system BF # 4 - 20" Rear-Drive w/cassette driver 135mm- disc compatable
The front kit says: E assist system BF #2 20" Front Drive -Bafang disc compatable
I still don’t understand why they aren’t being transparent about the strength of the motor. For a $3k bike I don’t think I should have to upgrade it after the fact. Blix uses a 500 watt Shengy motor.
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Both my bikes were built with parts from GRIN technologies and I found they were very helpful during my build process. I have the Bafang MG311 front hub motors and they are rated for 250 watts and are a standard wind. The wind is offered with this motor in three different configurations....standard for 24 to 26 or 700 diameter wheels, fast for smaller wheels, and one other wind I can’t remember at this moment. If Bike Friday are offering you a rear drive then I would assume this is the motor they are using.
I would go to their site ebikes.com and look up their Bafang motor MG311 for specifications. You will find lots of information there regarding the performance characteristics of the motor. Just take your time there because their site has lots of information.
I would go to their site ebikes.com and look up their Bafang motor MG311 for specifications. You will find lots of information there regarding the performance characteristics of the motor. Just take your time there because their site has lots of information.
Dewey
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- Arlington, Virginia
My wife loved the Andros adjustable handlebar on the Tern folder she test-rode, I like this years folding ebike models from Tern a lot, it's great you converted yours, how do they perform in hilly Vancouver? The Grin G31X product page says " we stock the motors in 3 different winding options, a very fast (7T, 11.9 rpm/V) ideal for 16" rims, a fast wind (8T, 10.5 rpm/V) intended for 20" wheels, and a standard wind (10T, 8.5 rpm/V) that is appropriate for 26"/700c builds. With this combination of winding choice and wheel diameter, you will achieve cruising speeds of 30-35 kph with 36V battery packs."
Grin Tech's website is ebikes.ca, Tim's right you can spend days on there it's packed with information.
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How do you like the motor on the front hub? Do you feel the motor is powerful enough to get you up a hill?
Yes it does but I like to get exercise as well so I never totally rely on the motor without peddling. The only other question I would have regarding the bike Friday is the range. I can get up to 40 miles with a 500 Wh battery. I think the bike Friday is a 300 Wh with their three pak of 100Wh batteries.
Usually you set your power level and with pedal assist have to pedal in order to have the motor engaged.
I think you need to test ride a couple of different bikes and especially try the front and rear type motors. I am very happy with the front motor setup I have. It’s not overwhelming and a gentle application of the power. With the ability to dial in your power level and if you have a throttle that can adapt to any situation you would encounter.
I would recommend the front hub just because of the belt drive. Also get a hydraulic disc brake at least one on the front hub which should be possible with a Bafang motor. I know because that’s what I have.
Usually you set your power level and with pedal assist have to pedal in order to have the motor engaged.
I think you need to test ride a couple of different bikes and especially try the front and rear type motors. I am very happy with the front motor setup I have. It’s not overwhelming and a gentle application of the power. With the ability to dial in your power level and if you have a throttle that can adapt to any situation you would encounter.
I would recommend the front hub just because of the belt drive. Also get a hydraulic disc brake at least one on the front hub which should be possible with a Bafang motor. I know because that’s what I have.
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Well I went back to the Bike Friday site and upon closer look at their designs it seems that the disc brakes are only available on the rear drive setup. This would be my choice.
Unless they would be willing to add disc brakes.I would not buy an e-bike without disc brakes.
Also ask them if they are hydraulic type (fluid) rather than the cable so you never have to adjust them. Better control and leverage power when applying brakes with a hydraulic system.
Unless they would be willing to add disc brakes.I would not buy an e-bike without disc brakes.
Also ask them if they are hydraulic type (fluid) rather than the cable so you never have to adjust them. Better control and leverage power when applying brakes with a hydraulic system.
indianajo
Well-Known Member
I've had both. The rear was a direct drive, which drug when the power was off. The 14 lb weight back there was noticable, especially when I was carrying groceries in the panners. The sprocket cluster on the rear was scrap metal and it didn't shift right. I couldn't buy an 11-32 7 speed rear sprocket (not in stock, never in stock), only 14-28. 8 speed sprockets were too wide, wouldn't fit in the frame. 28 lowest speed wouldn't get me + groceries up my steepest hill without power. And if it rains hard, the throttle fails. So I went to front drive geared hub motor. I really like it, it is unfeelable when the power is off. When the wind goes 25 mph in my face, on goes the power to drag me home. Shifting on my sram original 8 speed sprocket is precise, and the 11-32 speed selection is great.
Don't ride a front hub motor power on across ice, muddy or wet rock or steel covers, wet wood bridge decks. But with power off front geared hub motor is just like a regular bicycle, only 12 lb more.
mariafancher
New Member
As I know for front motor you need to be careful about if fork can handle the torque. Other than that front motor is good for weight balancing. I see many Dutch bikes use front motor (as their motors aren't as powerful as the ones we use in USA)
harryS
Well-Known Member
You're buying from the real Bike Friday?
www.bikefriday.com
Seems like you can get whatever you want. Mid drive, front drive, rear drive. I would not worry about the power for NYC.
I've always thought that Bike Fridays are not folders, but bikes that come apart easily to fit in luggage or for transport. I see them at the top of the folding bike food chain.
As we only fold our bikes rarely (last fold was January 2019), owning a BF would be nice, but one would cost more than all four of our 20 inchers.
I converted one 20" bike to FWD because it had a nice cassette on the rear I didn't want to scrap. It feels no different from the others, except I note it may slip on gravel going uphill. Steering feels fine. I do have some concerns about the little 4.5 pound motor stressing out the alloy forks, but I have two torque arms, plus I can look at the nuts before each ride, and they've never moved (marked them with a Sharpie).
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Seems like you can get whatever you want. Mid drive, front drive, rear drive. I would not worry about the power for NYC.
I've always thought that Bike Fridays are not folders, but bikes that come apart easily to fit in luggage or for transport. I see them at the top of the folding bike food chain.
As we only fold our bikes rarely (last fold was January 2019), owning a BF would be nice, but one would cost more than all four of our 20 inchers.
I converted one 20" bike to FWD because it had a nice cassette on the rear I didn't want to scrap. It feels no different from the others, except I note it may slip on gravel going uphill. Steering feels fine. I do have some concerns about the little 4.5 pound motor stressing out the alloy forks, but I have two torque arms, plus I can look at the nuts before each ride, and they've never moved (marked them with a Sharpie).
E-Wheels
Well-Known Member
Most Dutch bikes have an IGH, so using a front hub motor makes sense
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