Found a sweet deal on a demo unit, but how do I check battery health?

[pyromuffin]

There's an pretty good seeming deal on a 2018 class 3 riese and muller nuvinci delite at my local bike shop, $5500 for an 8000 dollar bike! I am pretty much ready to buy it, but first I want to know what I should watch out for with purchasing a demo unit. How can I tell how many cycles remain on the battery? Are there any other things I should look out for when buying a demo unit? Anything on the suspension, or cvt? I'm not exactly a bike expert, but I have been doing a lot of research on ebikes lately.

Thanks!

 

[6zfshdb]

As far as the battery is concerned, there is an app called "ESB" which will pair with many types of e-bike batteries made by many different manufacturers. It connects the battery with a smartphone via Bluetooth.

http://www.esb.bike/app/

Among it's features is one called "battery health" It displays many battery parameters including the number of charge cycles and present capacity.

I don't know if Riese & Muller uses a compatible battery but it might be worth checking out.

 

[pyromuffin]

I can't find where compatibility is listed for that app. R&M use bosch motors and batteries, and I don't think they have bluetooth anything. Though I expect chemistry and battery health is pretty similar across all batteries that use the same chemistry. I imagine there might be some hardware that can perform the same tests?

 

[LimboJim]

The R&M Delite uses a Bosch system. Dealers can (and always should, IMO) perform Bosch's software updates on bikes they sell, and can easily generate printed reports on the ebike's drive and charging status.

I had my 2015 Felt LEBOWSKe's system updated last October, and the dealer gave me the attached printout. It shows that the battery had experienced 36 full charge cycles (from 0-100% - charges from 50-100% only count as half of a charge cycle) in its first 730 miles. That's only about 20 miles per full charge, which is low but the bike had been ridden quite a bit in snow and on steep trails...

Shimano STePs-equipped ebikes allow consumers to run similar updates and reports, which provide an even better analysis of battery health : remaining battery capacity (as compared to when it was brand new). I was able to see that, after 14 months and upwards of 50 charge cycles, my Shimano battery still had 96% of its original capacity. As far as I know, Yamaha and Brose offer no such tests or updates for their ebike systems.

 

[pyromuffin]

Excellent, I'll ask the bike store if they can give me this report. It doesn't look like the tool is available for the general public.

 

[LimboJim]

Not for Bosch...

Newer Bosch system (and updated older system) reports will provide you with even more details, like how much time the bike spent at various assist levels and more.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

The R&M Delite uses a Bosch system. Dealers can (and always should, IMO) perform Bosch's software updates on bikes they sell, and can easily generate printed reports on the ebike's drive and charging status.

I had my 2015 Felt LEBOWSKe's system updated last October, and the dealer gave me the attached printout. It shows that the battery had experienced 36 full charge cycles (from 0-100% - charges from 50-100% only count as half of a charge cycle) in its first 730 miles. That's only about 20 miles per full charge, which is low but the bike had been ridden quite a bit in snow and on steep trails...

Shimano STePs-equipped ebikes allow consumers to run similar updates and reports, which provide an even better analysis of battery health : remaining battery capacity (as compared to when it was brand new). I was able to see that, after 14 months and upwards of 50 charge cycles, my Shimano battery still had 96% of its original capacity. As far as I know, Yamaha and Brose offer no such tests or updates for their ebike systems.


View attachment 29580

Yamaha ebikes do have a battery cycle indication. Owner's manual describes the sequence and codes.

 

[LimboJim]

Yamaha ebikes do have a battery cycle indication. Owner's manual describes the sequence and codes.

As I understand it, the Yamaha test tells when a battery's reached 75% of its expected charge cycles by showing 3 of the 4 LED lights on the battery itself, after entering said sequence using the battery's on/off button whether it's connected to the bike or not.

Does it also show actual remaining battery capacity? If so, can it be any more accurate than +/- 25%? Is there a way to update the motor's software?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

There's an pretty good seeming deal on a 2018 class 3 riese and muller nuvinci delite at my local bike shop, $5500 for an 8000 dollar bike! I am pretty much ready to buy it, but first I want to know what I should watch out for with purchasing a demo unit. How can I tell how many cycles remain on the battery? Are there any other things I should look out for when buying a demo unit? Anything on the suspension, or cvt? I'm not exactly a bike expert, but I have been doing a lot of research on ebikes lately.

Thanks!

If you are getting it from the New Wheel, you are in good hands.
https://form.jotform.com/82635617584163
They are a dedicated bunch and really take care of their customers.

 

[steve mercier]

BUY IT... if it has twin batteries and you like the Nuvinci

 

[pyromuffin]

If you are getting it from the New Wheel, you are in good hands.
https://form.jotform.com/82635617584163
They are a dedicated bunch and really take care of their customers.

Yep, that's the one (or two).

 

[Rocket Bike Ryan]

There's an pretty good seeming deal on a 2018 class 3 riese and muller nuvinci delite at my local bike shop, $5500 for an 8000 dollar bike! I am pretty much ready to buy it, but first I want to know what I should watch out for with purchasing a demo unit. How can I tell how many cycles remain on the battery? Are there any other things I should look out for when buying a demo unit? Anything on the suspension, or cvt? I'm not exactly a bike expert, but I have been doing a lot of research on ebikes lately.

Thanks!

dont hesitate to ask questions. In my experience its common to get a really good battery for what amounts to free when you buy the bike (the demo models often come loaded with all the bells and whistles) . plus u make a connection for future ebiking needs (riding is like tattoos im told. 1 is never enough). Because the demos really sell more bikes they are kept in good shape. That includes the battery.. Most modern bikes have bms systems installed on both the bike and the battery. So over charging isnt easy to do like it was 10yr ago. I would bet you it will be the best battery (at this point) you have ever owned. I build mine/buy mine/retro fit designs you name it.. Battery is as important as the rest of the bike.. Best way to learn is to jump rt in..see u on the trail

 

[John from Connecticut]

There's an pretty good seeming deal on a 2018 class 3 riese and muller nuvinci delite at my local bike shop, $5500 for an 8000 dollar bike! I am pretty much ready to buy it, but first I want to know what I should watch out for with purchasing a demo unit. How can I tell how many cycles remain on the battery? Are there any other things I should look out for when buying a demo unit? Anything on the suspension, or cvt? I'm not exactly a bike expert, but I have been doing a lot of research on ebikes lately.

Thanks!

If the bike was used exclusively as a demo, and has been been part of your Bike Shops inventory since new, they know the entire history
of the bike should willing be able to provide all of the info you for. If you trust your shop that's all you need.

Battery charge cycles is nit picking when you're saving $2500 + . If the batteries are in poor condition ( which I doubt ) your shop will tell you that,
same with the CVT...It all gets back to trust.

If it were me and your shop can provide good info on the bike I'd buy it 'yesterday' : ) While you're researching stuff that might need
attention by third parties, someone else will come in buy 'your' bike. Again this deal hinges on trust between you and the shop.

 

[steve mercier]

you can see how many hours the bike has on it by using the Intuvia this way. Power it on, hold reset and i at the same time until it blinks , then press the i button to scroll through until you see " Power on hours" ....mine shows 212 currently and I have about 1600 miles. hope that helps.

 

[Alex M]

Pyromuffin, I hope you realize that the number of cycles accumulated and other battery data provided on the shop print-out on the photo don't really answer your question on "battery health". It only shows the usage, and thus provides a ballpark estimate of what to expect. It would also show if the battery was totally cooked.

"Maybe" they have more comprehensive procedures in the shop to really check how battery health has deteriorated since the day one - can't say. Remember, it always goes down, not up .

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Yep, that's the one (or two).

Most importantly, if they offer 2 yr warranty from the date of purchase, then you're good. Without warranty, batteries and motor replacement are VERY expensive.
As Alex mentioned, whether you use your bike or not, battery slowly degrades. it's best when you use it and there is a shop to back up your investment.

 

[michwalker]

Check mileage on the ebike, ask for report of battery system "any bosch service unit can give it" as they use a canbus bms system you can get lot of parameters about the battery.
FInally ask for details of warranty from the store as @ravi_kempaiah mentioned.

 

[John from Connecticut]

Check mileage on the ebike, ask for report of battery system "any bosch service unit can give it" as they use a canbus bms system you can get lot of parameters about the battery.
FInally ask for details of warranty from the store as @ravi_kempaiah mentioned.

Most, if not all of the information mentioned and more on this thread should be available from the dealer. A reputable dealer ( I'm not saying yours is not reputable)
will gladly provide all the quality info willingly, and in most cases without you even having to ask, as part of establishing a good relationship with you going forward.
Have you had this conversation with your dealer ? If you're concerned about not knowing what to ask, again a quality dealer will help you along, not intimidate you...

They want and need your business. Ravi brings up a great point. Is the Bosch Electrical System 'transferable', remaining, or how ever you want to say it.
My guess is yes, because the bike was never sold to the end consumer. The dealer still owns it. Will you get the full warrantee time limit ? That's a point of
negotiations. Again if the dealer wants to build a relationship with you, they may absorb any 'lost' warrantee time during his loaner period.

 

[erider_61]

I wouldn't expect a full factory warranty on a used bike that is discounted but the remaining warranty on battery, motor etc should be offered. You may be able to negotiate other extras such as helmet, locks, racks for free or at a discount as part of the deal. You are in a good bargaining position as the dealer really wants to move this bike to make room for new models