For those who are shopping for their first e-bike....

[JohnRC]

I can’t remember where this quotation came from but it went something like: If you are buying something don’t talk to people who have already bought one but talk with others who are in the same process as you. The main reason for this is that many people who have purchased the item will not readily admit any mistakes they might have made, regrets they have.

I have been reading a lot and had ridden 4 different bikes but have still not made up my mind. However, there are several things that have become very apparent to me in this process.

1) From my reading I know more than many of the people selling e-bikes. I think this is because many sales people have only the knowledge of one brand and it is the “best” one. What they need is to really have a look around at the competition and the whole field of ebikes. I am still looking for the shop that has at least one person who really knows the electrics of these bikes.

2) None of the sellers are saying much about how to maintain the batteries. I have spent a lot of time with RC helicopters, planes and quadcopters that use lithium based batteries. For safety and longevity purchasers need to know more about this or they are not going to get long life out of their batteries. EBR and Bike Forum have threads on this that are well done.

3) Bike weight. These things are heavy! Much more than I would have thought. I am 72 and one of my mottos is that everything has to get lighter each year. And: Carbon Fibre is my friend. From what I see around here many of the buyers are old men and women like me. Lighter bikes are easier to manage and will get more miles per charge. Depending on their fitness I think new buyers need to be aware of this from the start.

For now, John

 

[AlanDB]

Excellent points John! Welcome to the forum. We will look forward to more interesting posts from you.

 

[JRA]

1) There are few shops that know much about eBikes and their inner workings because it is new to them. There are shops around the country that have been dealing with eBikes for enough time that they have knowledge and experience with them. Most of these are ones that have done successful kit installations because that takes putting the pieces together not just buying what the manufacturer provides as a complete bike.

2) Plenty of info online about battery maintainence just a matter of the end consumers interest in doing it right. RC LiPo batteries are a different structure than LiMn types and take more care charging as they don't use a BMS. Still not a given that a LiMn battery won't go off with improper handling/charging though.

3) Chasing light weight for an eBike is about smaller motor systems and ah batteries that may or may not meet your goals for switching to an eBike. Power to weight ratio is always a factor but a lighter bike only means more miles per charge if it is ridden moderately to have low wh/mi. Once again this must be factored into your desired goals. Lifting a heavier bike around is a pain but riding a 45lb. eBike with the proper system on board doesn't seem to affect the handling in my experience.

 

[rich c]

I think you would get plenty of experienced riders admitting regrets. Just ask them what their second, third or fourth Ebike will be, or is, and why. I've never found people with zero practical experience to be more knowledgeable than experienced in my other hobbies. I drift to the ones that have made the mistakes and moved on. Computer reading and youtube video research will never trump practical experience in my book. Good luck in your search.

 

[MarkF]

There's no sense in over thinking your batteries. There still lipos and the same rules apply. There is plenty of info in these forums to suggest not leaving fully charged over 80% and not leaving then discharged past 20%.
The chargers that come with these bikes don't have all the capabilities of the chargers we use for RC. So you need to go by the charge state bars on the side of the battery itself, or the display on your bike, and use that as your guide. Not very accurate but it's the best we have for now. There are some aftermarket chargers that do a better job like the satiator brand. I've thought about adding a charge lead to my I-Charger, but it doesn't go up to 13s or 14s so using the charger that came with the bike is my best option. Or maybe you have one that goes that high.

As far as weight goes these bikes are heavier because of the weight of motor and battery. That means the bike has to be made stronger which adds a little more weight. But the power of the motors take care of the extra weight so the bikes still ride wonderful. Every Bike has its plus and minuses so choose one that is appealing to you and go for it. Yes carbon is lighter but it's also a lot more expensive and can break in the right kind of fall.
I bought a 56 lb Raleigh retroglide beach cruiser and it rides and feels like a bike. I don't really notice the extra weight. These are not RC vehicles so the extra weight isn't as important.

 

[tcombest]

I am 62. Although I have 2 juiced fat bikes and love them, I would look at the juiced crosscurrent. If you buy a rear rack, like the Swagman, you can load one wheel at a time. I do this with my fatties and it is very easy. The juiced bikes have the best battery. Also, it is easily removed, which makes loading lighter. I would also go tubeless and carry tire plugs and air co2. Rad also makes nice bikes with easily removable batteries and may be cheaper. I can only advise on the Radrover, Ripcurrent S, and HyperFat 1100, because I have owned all three. Good luck.

 

[indianajo]

I'm age 68 and I believe your muscles can get used to anything you do four times a week. This opinion is supported by various articles I've found on bbcnews, for example one on 7/13/10. Into your eighties. Since bicycling is my major aerobic and leg/hip exercise, I view weight on the bicycle as not a problem. I carry groceries and supplies, often achieving a bike/cargo weight of 160 lb, which I pedal frequently up short 15% grades. As a result, before my shoulder tendon surgery, the cardiologist spent $5000 of the government's money analyizing my heart, to report "there is nothing wrong with your heart". My cloresterol and triglycerides have also halved since I stopped driving and started riding the bike, and are below watch levels.
What I can't control four times a week is the wind. 18 mph behind me sometimes, 18 mph in my face sometimes, my 30 mile commute varies from 2.6 hours to 6 hours. That is a *****ed nuisance, hence my desire for electricity. I'm not going to use the electricity on nice days, but I have had it with 6 hours straight of >132 bpm stress. I don't need that much aerobic exercise.
If you buy one of the rare e-bikes with carbon fiber, you've likely forced yourself to choose a mid-drive model. Carbon fiber doesn't support high torques out on the end of forks. The mid-drive models pretty much require you to use the assist all the time, because they drag heavily with the power off. By contrast, my direct drive hub drags me down about one sprocket over human power with the power off, and the geared hub drive doesn't drag at all unpowered.
So choose your exercise program wisely. If you're also running and swimming the other two legs of the iron man triatholon, then mid-drive is not such a penalty. If your bicycle is your main aerobic exercise like me, using the drive power only sometimes should be a consideration. Muscle mass lost in the seventies and eighties can't be regained, a study reports the nerves atrophy, so what you can do now, you should keep doing, whether on a bike or some other way. Unless your goal living shorter than I hope to. My Dad sat down at retirement, had two good years, and after the stroke 6 *****y years where he couldn't make sense of the books he was trying to read. I've had 10 years since I quit work and I'm having ball, I don't want it to stop.

 

[6zfshdb]

While I agree that the extra weight of an ebike disappears once you start riding, it is still a factor when transporting. Removing the battery helps but for us older folks, hefting a 60 pound bike isn't as easy as it once was. There is also the issue of what rack do you use and how do you load it. Luckily, there are several good threads on that subject here at EBR.

In any case, welcome to the forum and good luck with your hunt for the perfect ebike!

 

[mrgold35]

Just to add to the list some additional items that popped up after my +2 years of ebike riding:

- folks sometimes shop for the best ebike instead of the best ebike for them that support their riding skill level and environment.

- Cost of ownership with:
*routine maint (tools and spare parts)
*emergency maint (self, ebike company, or LBS)
*upgrades (suspension seatpost, Aux lights, saddle, rack+bag, etc...)
*riding gear (cold, warm, bad weather, gloves, helmet, wind, gloves, etc...)
*lights
*manufacturers warranty
*additional bike insurance coverage or homeowners/renters policy

- Secure storage at home, play, work, or errands

- Ability to transport of ebike by public trans or POV

- Theft prevention with locks, chains, cable and GPS trackers

- Back up plan if you cannot ride ebike (electrical issue, mechanical issue, weather, illness/injury). Spouse, friend on speed dial, public trans, Uber/Lyft, etc...

- replacement or upgrades (from worn parts to new ebike)

I'm part of the bell curve with my Radrover ebike where my cost were high at the start and are very low after to years of riding (+5500 miles). I don't know when my cost will start to rise again as I start to enter the back end of the bell curve. I want to get another +12-18 months and +3000 miles before they do.

 

[Trail Cruiser]

Most people here have been to a lot of ebikes, mid drives, hub drives, class 1,2,3, cadence only sensor, torque sensor, manufacturer and LBS support, owner serviceability, etc..
You name it, you'll get an answer.
Seek and you shall find, ask and you shall receive.

 

[Merc]

I am 62. Although I have 2 juiced fat bikes and love them, I would look at the juiced crosscurrent. If you buy a rear rack, like the Swagman, you can load one wheel at a time. I do this with my fatties and it is very easy. The juiced bikes have the best battery. Also, it is easily removed, which makes loading lighter. I would also go tubeless and carry tire plugs and air co2. Rad also makes nice bikes with easily removable batteries and may be cheaper. I can only advise on the Radrover, Ripcurrent S, and HyperFat 1100, because I have owned all three. Good luck.

How do you like the Rip vs the HF1100 and do you have a preference? Is the speed and acceleration drastically different between the 2 and what is the highest speed you’ve ridden the Rip?

 

[tcombest]

How do you like the Rip vs the HF1100 and do you have a preference? Is the speed and acceleration drastically different between the 2 and what is the highest speed you’ve ridden the Rip?

The RCS does not have a PAS of 0. That is a big problem. You must either ride in PAS 1, or turn the battery off if you want to ride with no assist. They fixed this on the HF and it does have a PAS of 0. That is a big deal to me.

The RCS throttle only goes to 20 mph. You must use PAS S to hit 30mph. The HF throttle will get you to 30mph with no PAS. That is also a big deal to me. If something breaks or you don’t feel good, you can get home faster with just throttle. That happened to me. A crankarm came loose and I had 5 miles to ride on a thruway access road and I could only go 20 when I was in a hurry to get off the busy road.

In reference to the two issues above, Juiced told me they are working on a re-flashing of the controller to fix these two issues. If you buy a RCS, be sure and ask if these issues have been fixed.

You can easily feel the power difference in the two bikes, but I feel the acceleration and hill climbing is sufficient on the RCS. Buy if you are a power freak like me, you will like the HF.

They say the HF will go 40mph. I haven’t hit that yet. Maybe going downhill you can. You have power up to 35 (and that is on full battery) and you must pedal hard and fast after that to try to hit 40. When the battery is 3/4, I see myself running more like 28-34 mph in PAS R. That could be due to 210lbs weight and heavier tires.

I have gone 32 on the RCS. But it typically cruises 25-30 in PAS S.

The HF does not come with a rear rack. RCS does. The slicks in the HF are very thin and flat prone. The Knobbys on the RCS are 30tpi wire bead and also cheap. I would plan on upgrading either one of them to Maxxis Minion EXO TP 120 TPI tires and go tubeless no matter what. Otherwise, you will have the weight and cost of Mr Tuffys, tubes, and slime. Tuffys are $65 and weigh .5 lbs each. Tubes weigh 1.0 lbs each. Tuffys and tubes will cost as much as new tires.

Negatives with HF: rear wheel power cable is heat shrinked and doesn’t disconnect easily. Slicks. No rear rack.

Negatives with RCS: no PAS 0, throttle only to 20 mph, tires are not great but better than slicks. HF comes with satiator charger, but no big deal.

Here are some videos I made. I’m not good at making videos, but they might help you decide.

 

[AHicks]

At 67, as a fellow (long time) RC'er, I'm also a proponent of lighter = better. Here, talking bikes though, I think of the bike's weight only when I have to lift it, and I'm lucky enough where that doesn't need to happen often. A bike I'm interested in will have enough power and good enough brakes where 5 lbs more or less isn't going to be noticed much. In a rc plane, I willingly pay more for a plane that is light and engineered well enough to remain sturdy. I'm not so sure that would be a factor when comparing 2 bikes within 5lbs. of each other.

The other point made above is regarding a theoretical "best bike" and the need to make that bike the one that follows you home. That's an awesome point. I think you are FAR further ahead buying a bike with attributes that best fit YOUR mission! Sit down and figure out how this bike is actually going to be used. Then find one that will satisfy that mission. You don't need to carry around (or pay for) a battery that will last 50 miles if you haven't ridden that for in years for instance. Or big hill climbing power when the nearest hill you'll see is 20 miles away....

Picking out a bike can be an obsession, which can be a fun process, but don't let indecision overtake you. Collect your data, then get on something, even if it's wrong. Start enjoying! If it does turn out to be the wrong bike, at least you'll be riding, so you can take your time picking out the second bike.....

 

[Deleted member 18083]

These things are heavy!

True; but does it really matter when one is riding the beast? For me the answer is 'No'.

I've just returned from a two-hour afternoon ride that took in a suburban bikeway, country gravel roads, >15% gradients and a slushy rail trail (it rains on the tomorrow side of the Pacific, too). My ebike's weight - considerably greater than its non-eMTB equivalent from the same brand - was irrelevant so far as my enjoyment of the ride was concerned.

Next time I put the bike on the car rack, I'll have a different take on the weight issue - but I have a ramp to deal with that.
... David

 

[ebikemom]

I think you would get plenty of experienced riders admitting regrets. Just ask them what their second, third or fourth Ebike will be, or is, and why.

Amen. I learned TONS by talking to experienced ebikers who were on their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th bike! It was one of the things that guided me to go with an established company with a strong customer service reputation.

 

[ebikemom]

BTW, I'm not very strong, but don't have to lift my bike, so the weight doesn't matter. We got a rack that has a ramp, also. Weight is an issue in getting it up onto a work stand, but I have family members who can help with that part.

Do lots of test riding, and have fun shopping!