Flying with Electric Bike Batteries? Tips and Advice

[Chris Nolte]

I agree Will. We are also Hazmat certified and ship the same way. Thank you for your more detailed response. I do think this is commonly overlooked in the industry.

 

[Scooteretti]

Chris, unfortunately many retailers try to bypass the system to save a few $$.

Its brands like yours and Scooteretti who care about doing what's right and making sure we support the products we sell properly. As well as for the safety of others up to the point that our customers ride their bikes for the first time!

all the best from Canada,


Will

 

[Chris Nolte]

Yes indeed! Much respect Will! Let me know if you're ever in NYC. I'd love to connect and talk shop.

 

[Nora Borso]

Do you have any information about transporting a bike with the Copenhagen Wheel/Superpedestrian Wheel?

 

[Scooteretti]

Hello Nora,

On the Copenhagen wheel since the battery has a total capacity of 279Wh then this too qualifies as a DG (Dangerous Goods) shipment and cannot be brought on board as regular baggage. It must be shipped per ICAO/IATA regulations as a DG shipment and packed / shipped accordingly.

 

[John and Cecil]

I am curious, if the battery were discharged completely before getting onboard or before shipping wouldn't it then be safe? If the energy buildup is the fire hazard why not just drain the energy out beforehand?

 

[bob armani]

Hello Nora,

On the Copenhagen wheel since the battery has a total capacity of 279Wh then this too qualifies as a DG (Dangerous Goods) shipment and cannot be brought on board as regular baggage. It must be shipped per ICAO/IATA regulations as a DG shipment and packed / shipped accordingly.

Thanks so much Chris and Will for helping us ebikers understand this very complicated restriction with shipment of your products. I wanted to take my ebike oversees with my wife to ride and do some urban commutes, however, as Will has indicated, a more viable option would be to perhaps rent locally to save a lot of hassles. As we all know, dealing with airline companies could be dangerous in the event of being dragged off a plane (as in the 'Jimmy Kimmel Airline skit') shown on one of his episodes. LOL! Thanks guys!

 

[opimax]

When drained batteries aren’t fully drained and if you were able to reach 0 volts this would degrade battery too much, probably ruin the battery

 

[John and Cecil]

Eeeks that would suck with a $400 battery I wonder if there are restrictions on taking batteries on cruise ships like the QM2.

 

[tomjasz]

See ebikes.ca for a 36V travel solution.
"Grin's modular LiGo battery was born in response to the massive transportation restrictions placed on large lithium ebike packs. Properly certified batteries under 100 watt-hours are largely exempted from the dangerous goods shipping restrictions and are even allowed aboard passenger aircraft with your carry-on luggage. Why not use this as the building block that can be easily re-assembled into a large battery?

After much design consideration we decided to implement this as a flat 10s x1p 18650 cell layout, with every battery having its own independent BMS circuit and each pack being potted to protect against the elements."

 

[Scooteretti]

I am curious, if the battery were discharged completely before getting onboard or before shipping wouldn't it then be safe? If the energy buildup is the fire hazard why not just drain the energy out beforehand?

@John and Cecil Unfortunately this would still not be allowed and as mentioned above by @opimax this would actually damaged the cells.

 

[John and Cecil]

Sorry, I am very new to this ebike thing. Is it possible to run an ebike (say a bbso2 mid drive) off a 36v battery with only 2.6ah? We are moving to europe but I would like to build the bike before we go since it needs to be adapted to carry a dog too. I was thinking I could power it with one of those royobi batteries that are under 100w and bring it with us, and then buy a bigger battery after we get there. I understand a 100w battery will only power a 500w motor for like 10 mins, but I am not sure if it is too small to work at all.

 

[Cecilia Winter]

@John and Cecil Unfortunately this would still not be allowed and as mentioned above by @opimax this would actually damaged the cells.

Hi, from what I could understand from the IATA regulations (https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-battery-guidance-document-2017-en.pdf), the Copenhagen Wheel qualifies as Lithium Ion Batteries Contained in Equipment. Up to 5kg could be carried in passenger flights if packed accordingly to the Packing Instruction 966. Is this not correct? Does anyone know what this PI involves? Thanks

 

[Scooteretti]

@Cecilia Winter the Copenhagen Wheel operates with a 279Wh lithium battery to which the product MUST be shipped as a DG shipment and in full compliance. These wheels must not be transported on any passenger aircraft and must be packed and labeled in compliance as well as be packed by a certified approved shipper.

 

[Cecilia Winter]

@Cecilia Winter the Copenhagen Wheel operates with a 279Wh lithium battery to which the product MUST be shipped as a DG shipment and in full compliance. These wheels must not be transported on any passenger aircraft and must be packed and labeled in compliance as well as be packed by a certified approved shipper.

Hi Scooteretti,

Sorry to insist, but can you point me to the wording of the IATA regulation that states that?
From what I´m reading only stand alone units of Lithium Ion Batteries with Cells > 20 Wh and Batteries > 100 Wh are classified UN3480 and forbidden in passager flights.

On the other hand, Lithium-Ion Batteries with Cells >20 Wh and Batteries > 100 Wh Contained in Equipment (the case of Copenhagen wheel) are classified UN3481 and up to 5 kg can travel in passager flights, as long as packed accordingly to PI 967.

I´m also trying to get a hold of American Airlines to clear things up.

 

[Scooteretti]

@Cecilia Winter apologies for the late reply things have been hectic here with the holiday season.

With the regulations there are multiple rules and exceptions for DG shipments that cover what can and cannot be transported.

For airline passengers the legal acceptance of a lithium battery on a commercial aircraft will depend on it's configuration and either watt-hour (Wh) rating or lithium content (non rechargeable lithium metal batteries).

Attached is a simple and basic table which shows what is and what is not permitted for airline passengers to carry on board with them along with where they can be placed on the aircraft (checked baggage or carry on).

Many times simply calling the 1-800 for your airline will typically get you a response from a non certified customer service representative. If contacting your airline try to get the contact details of their Dangerous Goods department where you will be able to obtain accurate details on their policies pertaining to the safe handling and shipping of Dangerous Goods to which Lithium Batteries fall into. Never rely on or accept the accuracy of a response from a non DG air certified shipper. Also note that many airlines are still accepting a maximum Wh rating of 100Wh and not 160Wh. Note: that even though IATA makes this recommendation, the individual member airlines that follow IATA / ICAO regulations may have them own policies which are equal or less than the ones recommended by IATA / ICAO.

hope this helps,



William

shop.scooteretti.com

 

[Deleted member 4210]

I am currently (10/9/15) researching this topic of flying with “larger than normal” Lithium rechargeable batteries. My application is different than electric bike battery but close to the same “category” as far as battery type and size…in my case a motorcycle battery that is 6” x 5” x 4” and less than 100 Whr (13.2V x 6A = 80 Whr), well below some of the upper limits I’ve seen of 100 Whr and 160 Whr. The document sited in this thread, first post, stating 300Whr for a lithium battery carried on board in passenger section of plane is outdated. See bottom left of first page of document, it says Jan 2014. The same chart is out there *(updated) dated Feb 2015 with the max range of 100-160 and not 300Wh.


From what I have read, there are at least three bureaucracies one has to satisfy. FAA, TSA and the Airline you are flying on. Each one has a different rule book. FAA has the most definitive rules out there that we can access and print out to take with us. They say you can carry-on a maximum of 2 stand alone, “spare” Lithium rechargeable batteries with a capacity of 100 Wh Watt hours or less. With “special permission” that limit can go up to 160 Wh but there is no instruction on how to get special permission and who to get it from…FAA, TSA or Airline. Also, these larger limit rechargeable Lithium batteries are discussed in the context of portable electronic devices and they then go on to further specify examples of Laptop and Audio/Visual equipment batteries as the “large stand alone batteries with max of 100 or 160 Ah). In other areas of the regulations, Car batteries are specifically sited as “not allowed” period, with no reference to size or weight or Wh. Motorcycle batteries and Electric bike batteries are not specifically addressed in anything I have found. But I could see how a TSA agent could just “lump in” motorcycle battery with car battery and disallow it.


It seems to me TSA is the only bureaucracy a traveler needs to satisfy since there is no Airline Security check point or FAA Security check point we have to deal with in an airport. TSA is who we have to satisfy and it may just be luck of the draw regarding the particular TSA agent you get that day who makes the yes/no decision on your battery. I hate leaving something like this up to chance as it would be both a significant expense and inconvenience if I was denied passage through TSA with my battery. I would prefer to have some kind of document “permission slip” from TSA that I could get in advance and carry with me when transporting the battery through airport security….anyone know if this possible?


*updated document can be found here: http://www.faa.gov/Go/PackSafe

scroll down the opening page to chart, select 4th tab from left on top of chart (Batteries and Electronics), then go down to the 6th row, (Lithium Batteries….) and select (Details) on far right side of the row. Scroll down to very last line of the page and select the link that says (Airline passenger and Batteries. Pdf)

Very strong advice. JUST DONT DO IT. Don't even go there, as flying with batteries this large, (anything over 160 wh) on a passenger plane, is like traveling with a bomb according to the airlines. Its just too risky, and there will be plenty of people who will try to stop you, and for good reason. People just do not realize how much energy is stored in these things. Do you want to be responsible for accidentally taking down a passenger plane with hundreds of people ? I didn't think so. Taking a regular bike on an airplane doesn't make sense either. Rent one on the other end of your trip. By the way, you should also charge these batteries in a protective box, such as an ammo box, to minimize risk. And don't leave the charger on for any longer than you need to charge the battery. Put an off timer switch on it if you have to.

 

[ancientbicyclist]

Hi All, I know I haven't been on this discussion for quite a while. Just saw an ad on Indiegogo for the Zycle folding electric bike. At first, I was interested, but when I saw they were claiming that their bike was airplane legal and they have a 36v 7.8a battery, I realized they did not know what they were talking about. This made me feel that many of their other claims were not accurate. I own 7 electric folders, all of which, could be considered airplane legal, but even with those it has been a hassle at times. For instance I own a Hoptown 500 Electric Folder, which has a 36v 4amp battery and if I plan to fly with it, I first call the airline, then usually have to make a separate trip to the airport to make sure the battery meets all specifications: it must be less than 160 watt hours specified in writing on the battery, the terminals must be properly taped and it must be enclosed in a transparent plastic bag. It is usually then put through the detection device at the carry on baggage check point. Then when I return to the airport for my trip usually there is no problem, but again it depends on the people at the baggage check point, as they will have to check again to see if all these precautions are still in place.

 

[John and Cecil]

Well I have been looking into this issue and I may have found a solution. It seams the best way may be to build a battery pack with "removable cells" like they use in consumer electronic devices. An example would be a 14s2p configuration using high discharge 18650s. This configuration could provide a 52v 6ah battery with a max discharge of 30a using samsung 30q batteries as an example. Before you pack your bike up remove the 28 cells and put them in storage containers and carry them onboard. Another option would be to put the cells in large flashlights or something else. The law appears aimed at large batteries with soldered connections but not for moving around a large number of small individual batteries.

 

[tomjasz]

Batteries from Grin, LiGO, were designed to meet air travel standards. But to do that the packs are 36V 2.5Ah.

"36V 2.7Ah Stackable LiGo battery module with low impedance LG MG1 cells and a crazy smart wireless enabled BMS circuit, capable of 10A continuous and 15A peak. 98 Watt-hour capacity is permissible for air travel. Dual Anderson power leads allows easy parallel connection for assembly into larger modules or for series connection to 72V. Slim profile works great on skateboards too. Limited to two pieces and ground shipping to be exempt from dangerous goods."