Flux Bike

[Cameron Newland]

Fact is most arent' selling them for 30-40% less than "retail" (what is that?) and the sucker/customer is simply FRONTING THE MONEY to a business starting up, with NO GUARANTEE of a product being delivered at the advertised price (seldom to never) to not being delivered. Ever. (not uncommon)
Then there's the lack of service, or even a dealer to help when you do break down! Good luck trying to find someone to work on a no name Chinese clone e bike.
Simply nutzo.
Sonders caught a wave of uninformed Ebike wanna be's with an artificially low price and the only way he survived it is because SO many people gave him money on spec that he could afford to eat the losses on a $600 E bike. (single speed!) IF he hadn't gotten all that money up front and had simply opened a shop selling those bikes at that price, he would be long gone now. (not only my opinion)
Did you buy one?

No, I didn't buy one. ;-)

It seems like you're against crowdfunded ebikes – that much is certain.

I won't try to convince you of the benefits of crowdfunding. I mean, it's not like the auto industry has taken notice of crowdfunding or anything. Would you believe it if I told you that a car manufacturer announced an electric car last week that they crowdfunded to the tune of 234,000 orders and nearly $10 billion in revenue? Is Tesla a fraud? Are consumers just suckers who are fronting the money for Tesla to start up? You're a business-model Luddite, and that's fine. You're absolutely entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts. Crowdfunding certainly isn't perfect, but know this: it's here to stay, and consumers overwhelming benefit from it. Obviously you won't be participating in any crowdfunding campaigns, and that's your right. Crowdfunding will go on without you.

Regarding what "retail" is, the numbers I gave you were right on. Some brands fudge-up retail pricing and make up ridiculous prices that seemingly have no relation to the cost to manufacture the bike or the cost to market it through the retail channel, however, the majority of brands are forced to maintain some semblance of a relationship between wholesale and retail pricing, with 30-45% of retail sales price going to the dealer, 30-50% of the wholesale price going to the OEM brand, and the remainder is the money spent to build the bike. Why do most brands stick to this tried-and-true formula? Because they have to compete on price with other brands with a similar business model. How much does it cost to manufacture a mid-range mid-drive ebike in China? $550-$900. How much is Flux selling theirs for? $1099. How much does IZIP sell their very similar E3 Vibe for at dealers? $1,799. You've got to admit that if you look for comparable models that sell in LBS/traditional retail, they sell for more money than the crowdfunded bikes like Flux do. Another example is full-suspension bikes. Flux is selling theirs for $1,699. Roshan at Biktrix is selling his for $1,599. Haibike sells its very similar full-suspension SDURO for $3,000. Both Flux and Biktrix are buying the bikes from China for $1,000-$1,250 and they're cutting out the retail channel from the transaction. This is good for consumers. It's bad for ebike dealers. Hell, it may even be bad for traditional OEMs like Haibike that exclusively sell through dealers. Some OEMs are getting with the program and doing their own crowdfunded bikes: brands like Faraday and Tern/Xtracycle (note: Faraday sort of began as a crowdfunding campaign).

http://www.xtracycle.com
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/faradaybikes/faraday-cortland

Now to what I do agree with you on: maintenance/service. Some of these crowdfunded ebikes will break down and it'll be difficult to find a shop to service it, especially for bikes built with parts that no US-based companies carry. You'd just have to hope that the company that sold it to you is still in business and will honor your parts warranty and send you replacement parts, which you'll pay to have installed at a local shop. That is a downside of this business model – you take that risk when you buy one of these (BTW, ebike companies that sell at retail shops are always at risk of going out of business, too). Some crowdfunded ebike companies won't survive or will be abandoned by their founders, and there will be consumers who will get left out in the cold. At this point, though, we don't have enough information to determine if Flux, Sondors, or any of these companies will do that. If/when it happens, I'll tell you that you were right all along.

 

[Jack Tyler]

For those who want to catch Court's review of the last Trail prototype model and pick up the stats provided by one of the founders, here it is.

 

[bikerjohn]

Crowdfunding puts a big risk and a gamble on the words and reputation of someone who is probably a stranger. All one can go by is a slick pitch and a personal penchant for a gamble and a good "deal". But there is never a guarantee except perhaps a t-shirt with a logo ... Risky, risky RISKY! I'm still waiting for the $6800, 84 mpg Elio car to arrive somewhere...

 

[BabyLemonade91]

I think this is worth the risk, just ordered the roadster with the 17AH battery upgrade, I like supporting crowdfunding projects and I do it quite often because it's a win-win situation. Anyway, I'll keep you updated of how it goes and if I have issues with the service.

 

[Dadfis]

I took the plunge and bought 2: a roadster, and trail model, for me and the wife. You know what helped ease the anxiety of being ripped off by crowdsource scams? EBR's review. Not just that, but by the time I even noticed Flux, they had already far surpassed their goal, and apparently hadn't sold any perks to achieve that goal. Plus, I already had been looking for exactly what they are selling.
ETA for delivery is June/July. I refuse to feel like a sucker before august. Until then, I'm a happy consumer/supporter. Go Flux!

 

[pxpaulx]

I'm a crowd funding supporter myself (Radrover), but having an EBR review shouldn't really be considered an endorsement - the Wave e-bike had some form of a review here as well, and that campaign kind of fell apart with a number of issues (though I do not know if buyers ultimately received their bikes on that one).

In the case of the Radrover, the guy running it (Mike Radenbaugh) already had an established track record through several other EVs on kickstarter, as well as being a well known member of the endless sphere forums and was kind of a known person in the electric vehicle industry - it was based on those details that I contributed, make sure you do your own research on the campaign founder's backgrounds!

 

[George S.]

Turbo Bob was really positive on the bike.

https://turbobobbicycleblog.wordpress.com/category/e-bike-test-reviews/

I can't take these CF campaigns, don't have the patience. The Attack is a beautiful bike with tremendous capabilities. But they are switching to a new generation of motors, a fairly unknown motor at that. It's not clear who gets the job done over in China, which is what Sondors can do. Plus I could build a pretty nice ebike for $2,000, the price with the shipping. Get it a bit quicker, as well. But I think Flux is a great campaign, everything you would want, if you wanted to go the CF route.

 

[FLUX]

Hi everyone, this is Robert Rast, one of the founders from Flux. I really appreciate the support and good points brought up so far. We're in this for the long run and not going to let the community down. We're just a team of hardworking people that want to do right by the people that believe in us. In fact, we've poured our lives into this, moved out of our homes and now live in bunks at the office working 120 hour weeks to ensure that Flux doesn't turn into a fiasco a la Sondors or Wave. Crowdfunding has allowed us to provide bikes at a great value to consumers and bring a product to market in a really special way.

Any questions feel free to reach out here or email us at [email protected].

 

[George S.]

@FLUX

Robert,

Let me bounce something off you. I'm trying to figure out how to buy a bike that really smooths out bad roads. I'm talking the roads where I live, which are dirt. They tend to washboard and are just nasty to ride on. The older chip seal type roads are no better. The beginner singletrack might be better.

I've looked at the Attack because of the F/R air suspensions, the air shocks. You would have a range of adjustments. I don't have any experience with air shocks, but I know on the rear there is some sort of 'sag' thing that might be set to match smaller 'bumps'.

Another approach is the stem suspension, the Sta Fast approach. I really feel the stresses from the fork. The simple solution is a cruiser type bar, but it's a bad riding position to pedal.

I know you are selling this bike with catch phrases about 'falling being a part of riding like crying is a part of love'. Well, you know, in your 60's falling is not a good thing.

You guys seem to have a long term strategy. I'm interested in suspension stuff that really works for road riding. You've added a suspension seat post. I think we are all on the same page, up to a point. I may have to buy a Sta Fast, just to see how far that moves things along. Obviously, the Attack is the whole package, mid-drive, nice frame, decent suspension components, good battery. This is sort of Haibike territory, and a fair number of people disparage that bike. Is Flux really good enough to make that comparison? Everything in ebikes is over-marketed. I think the base Flux is exactly what you say, and a great value. But the Attack is in a tough spot, against $5,000 bikes. But that's not my issue. I want to know if the suspension could be tuned to make a good rough road bike.

If nothing else, maybe down the line offer a 'rough road' ebike, a hybrid with a higher level of e-ergonomics.

Good luck. Hope you have someone in China to get this stuff done!

 

[FLUX]

George,
Good points, I guess it depends on how much of your riding is on rough roads and how much will be on smooth roads. The roadster has advantages on smooth ground in slightly higher speed and range, but if you're going over dirt roads, especially washboard ones, I don't think the solid fork will be very comfortable... The Sta Fast and suspension post would help,it's a great product, but I doubt you'll find it's damping capabilities on par with a fork suspension.

For the conditions mentioned, would recommend the Trail (invest in a nice gel seat or suspension seat for long rides) or the Attack. You're right the suspension on the attack is highly adjustable and has lock out front and rear should you find yourself on long patches of asphalt.

Haha, no falling is not a good thing at any age, but at our age, neither is not going after what you want. I'm not a good mountain bike rider, I push my limits and fall a lot. But when I do, I get right back up and keep going until I've figured out how to get my butt past the obstacle. This is the same with Flux, we've been willing to test new things out, to fall, and when we do, we learn something really important and tweak the design.

On the Attack, we're going for more of a Jeep Wrangler kind of approach. It's rough around the edges, there's no special app, decals or even lights. It's just a solid frame, performance drivetrain and good suspension components that work. Yes, you can lock out or tune the suspension front and back to make a good road bike.

Cheers George.
BTW, Thanks. I'm our guy in China - lived there 6 years and speak fluent Chinese.

 

[BabyLemonade91]

Guys, Flux is having a demo in San Francisco this weekend, so you can all test ride it by yourselves.

https://www.facebook.com/events/789043374563887/

 

[George S.]

This has been a wildly successful campaign. They have changed some things around. They talked about a torque sensor but now they are apparently staying with V2 of the motor, which is cadence. Some people seemed pretty excited about the torque sensor for the price range. They say they can upgrade the firmware for V2 and get a 650 watt peak rating out of the motor. I worry a little that a motor this small is not going to shed heat, so not sure how far they can push it. These days people want speed and often that is pure watts, continuous.

They will have 2,000 bikes out there this summer. That's impressive. It's not a price point where you would expect anything close to perfect. They seem to be on top of the manufacturing.

 

[Jon M.]

My wife ordered a FLX Trail with the larger battery, a seat post, cell phone holder and extra set of tires for X-Mas. Price, around $2,300. with shipping. We were told when we ordered the bike it would be delivered by X-Mas. Well, missed the Christmas delivery. Kinda awkward, as everyone else got a present X-Mas morning. Bike was delivered in middle of January 2017. I thought, OK, its a startup, give them a break. When the bike did arrive the box was delivered with a hole in the cardboard and when I unpacked it, the frame was scratched, cell phone holder and extra set of road tires were missing. I carefully assembled the bike inside my house. Took it outside and rode up the driveway and discovered the front wheel wobbled like the wheel was bent. I called FLX and was told to take it to a local bike shop. 15 miles there, 15 miles back. There I was told the wobble was likely the tire and not the wheel. Called FLX. Cancelled the missing extra set of street tires and asked for a new replacement wobble free front tire. I did receive the cell phone holder a couple weeks later. Still waiting for "the touch up paint" for the frame scratch and a new wobble free front tire. Then, on my first ride (5 miles) the motor quit, 3.5 miles into the ride! Walked it home. Walked, because I quickly discovered the bike is too heavy to ride up hill without electric assist. I am in my 50's. Called FLX again, explained and they thought it was some kind of regulator on the motor. They said, "We will replace it and have it installed for you, about the third week of February." Still waiting, no call, It is the first week of March. I currently have an expensive piece of metal with a defective motor and wobbly front tire and no "touchup paint" for my $2,300. investment. To their credit Pete and Lea were nice enough on the phone. Update: Received the new front tire and motor, but no touch up paint for the scratched frame. But heres the problem, no local shop seems to want to install the motor. Going into the third week of April and I still don't have a bike I can ride. Frustrated and getting angry, believing I made a big mistake buying this bike. How would you feel?

 

[bikerjohn]

"... How would you feel?

"
To say the least, I would be UPSET!