Enviolo vs Rohloff E14

[DiggyGun]

When I was looking for my latest eBike, I was very interested in the Riese and Müller models because of their:
- step through style
- belt drive
- IGH

After demoing the Homage and Nevo3 with both the Rohloff and Enviolo hubs, I decided on the Nevo3 GT Vario GX which has the Enviolo hub.

One of the main reasons for this was the ease of use with the Enviolo and I found that with the Rohloff, that I wasn’t using the lower gears, say 1 to 6.

Having had the Enviolo now since August 2021 I can give some feedback on its use in the real world. It is so simple to use, you find a natural position with it based on your cadence, then it is just a case of little tweaks to the grip shifter whether you want more (higher gears) or less (lower gears). To date, I’ve never had to go down really low as it’s managed all the hills I’ve done so far on about the first third to half from the highest resistance.

 

[scrambler]

Hi All, Thanks for letting me in on this forum. Maybe you are interested in my story with AutomatiQ. I upgraded my R&M Charger 3 to AutomatiQ two weeks ago. Installation was quit straightforward however you need to be a bit technical. Main reason to upgrade was because I was annoyed by the heavy shifting. This is mostly caused by the cable system. My bikeshop did not want to do it because of issues with the older automatic Enviolo systems.
I purchased the Enviolo 2.0 to automatiq upgrade kit as this fits the 380 hub. In the hub you have a power cable, a remote controller (Bluetooth), two magnetic rings (on on the hub and the other one on the outer sprocket) and the AutomatiQ hub itself.
Setup is also pretty straightforward. Just connect the app on your phone to the hub and you can set the hub to either automatic (the hub is controlled automatically to maintain the set RPM) or manual (which gives you 9 preset 'gears'). In either mode you can control the hub. In automatic you shift 1 or 5(long press) rpm up or down with the buttons and in Manual mode it is just like a normal shifter with 9 gears.

This all gives you two complete different riding experiences with its own purpose. After quite some kilometers I come to the conclusion the the manual mode is super if you need speed of shifting. you can very quickly move up and down. The automatic mode is perfect for touring. You just set the rpm and the bike keeps itself on the set rpm. Little bit weird in the beginning, like you drive a CVT car.

Shifting is super smooth which strengthens my thought the heavy manual shifting is mostly because of the cable system. I have to say that you do not only want your smartphone to control. Because then you need to constantly reach for your smartphone to control the hub. Which indeed is cumbersome. imo you need the BT controller. Just place it next to your brake lever and you can easy reach it even on high speed with your thumb.

There are a couple of flaws however. If you want to change from Manual to Automatic or change the stop gear ratio or the preset RPM you have to connect the app. But after setting these in the app you have to disconnect the app and reconnect the controller. Also when you 'start' your bik you need to press the center button to connect the controller to the hub. Probably because of power save. Another flaw is you are as a private person not allowed to create an Enviolo account. And therefore you can not get into the deeper set up menu and that means you can not set the motor type, wheel size etc. You need a bikeshop to do that. Which irritates me.


I will never go back to the cable shifting. I know that for sure.

Thank you so much for posting here, I was looking for that information !

So from your experience, I suppose There is no way to integrate to the Bosch controller as that would require R&M to provide the proper Firmware.

Now despite the fact that you are using the Enviolo CliQ controller, were you able to plug the Hub Interface into the Motor to get its power?

About the controller, good to know that you can indeed switch from Manual to AutomatiQ using the App!
It is a pity that Enviolo did not make that change possible using the buttons on their BT CliQ controller, it would have been so much easier...
It is also a pity they are not allowing more than one BT device to be paired, as it would also make it easier to switch from manual to AutomatiQ.

Which Hub Interface and Controller did you install, the Pure 44T, the 44T or the 40T, and any specific reason for your choice?

Thanks Again for these info...

 

[Kogel]

Thank you so much for posting here, I was looking for that information !

So from your experience, I suppose There is no way to integrate to the Bosch controller as that would require R&M to provide the proper Firmware.

Now despite the fact that you are using the Enviolo CliQ controller, were you able to plug the Hub Interface into the Motor to get its power?

About the controller, good to know that you can indeed switch from Manual to AutomatiQ using the App!
It is a pity that Enviolo did not make that change possible using the buttons on their BT CliQ controller, it would have been so much easier...
It is also a pity they are not allowing more than one BT device to be paired, as it would also make it easier to switch from manual to AutomatiQ.

Which Hub Interface and Controller did you install, the Pure 44T, the 44T or the 40T, and any specific reason for your choice?

Thanks Again for these info...

The only way to control from the Bosch controller is indeed to have your bikeshop to provide the proper firmware. However most bikeshops will not be able to as the software to do so is only available for bike producers.

I did call Enviolo. They told me I could use the AUX port (on Gen 4 engines) to provide the power. They even told me (as my Aux port is used by the bike tracking chip) I could splice it there. However I did the upgrade during holidays and I read in the manual the hub needs between 18-36 volts. And the aux port is 12. Enviolo was closed so I decided to splice of the main power cable. But another phone call to Enviolo could solve this question. Getting the power from the AUX makes it easier. However you still need (in my opinion) to remove the motor to be able you route the cables and to remove the manual shifting cables. Removing the engine is not hard at all. But be sure to have a new bolt mounting set.

Agree they is is annoying you need to use the app to shift between A and M. I like both modes very much but it is a bit of a hassle right now.

I noticed that you can wait two devices (the phone and the controller) however only one can be connected. So if you connect the app you have to disconnect in the app and then the controller can connect. I also found out that if you just start your bike and cycle away the controller will not connect. You then have to switch of the bike and power up and then pres shortly the center button. And the controller reconnects. So good you can not find any of the above in manuals.......

I did purchase this set: https://orders.enviolo.com/collecti.../rebuild-kit-from-automatic-2-0a-to-automatiq. That is the one (according to Enviolo that fits the 380.

 

[Kogel]

The only way to control from the Bosch controller is indeed to have your bikeshop to provide the proper firmware. However most bikeshops will not be able to as the software to do so is only available for bike producers.

I did call Enviolo. They told me I could use the AUX port (on Gen 4 engines) to provide the power. They even told me (as my Aux port is used by the bike tracking chip) I could splice it there. However I did the upgrade during holidays and I read in the manual the hub needs between 18-36 volts. And the aux port is 12. Enviolo was closed so I decided to splice of the main power cable. But another phone call to Enviolo could solve this question. Getting the power from the AUX makes it easier. However you still need (in my opinion) to remove the motor to be able you route the cables and to remove the manual shifting cables. Removing the engine is not hard at all. But be sure to have a new bolt mounting set.

Agree they is is annoying you need to use the app to shift between A and M. I like both modes very much but it is a bit of a hassle right now.

I noticed that you can wait two devices (the phone and the controller) however only one can be connected. So if you connect the app you have to disconnect in the app and then the controller can connect. I also found out that if you just start your bike and cycle away the controller will not connect. You then have to switch of the bike and power up and then pres shortly the center button. And the controller reconnects. So good you can not find any of the above in manuals.......

I did purchase this set: https://orders.enviolo.com/collecti.../rebuild-kit-from-automatic-2-0a-to-automatiq. That is the one (according to Enviolo that fits the 380.

BTW. Couple of other things to keep in mind. And that is the color coding of the Enviolo cable. The bleu and yellow are the + and _. Not the red and blue. On the Bosch system the Black and Red are the + and _

https://support.enviolo.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011593740-AUTOMATiQ-Wire-harness-specification

 

[scrambler]

Thanks again for all the info @Kogel , this is great for anyone who wants to do this upgrade!

You should suggest to Enviolo to add Mode change to the CliQ controller, or allow simultaneous BT connection
If enough people suggest it, maybe they will do it (here is to wishful thinking)

 

[scrambler]

@Kogel
You mentioned "my Aux port is used by the bike tracking chip"
Is that a GPS tracker?
If so is that an Option sold by R&M in your country (there is no such option in the US that I can see), or a Custom Tracker you installed?
If a Custom Tracker, can you share which one?
Thanks again

 

[Kogel]

Thanks again for all the info @Kogel , this is great for anyone who wants to do this upgrade!

You should suggest to Enviolo to add Mode change to the CliQ controller, or allow simultaneous BT connection
If enough people suggest it, maybe they will do it (here is to wishful thinking)

Thought about that. But maybe wishful thinking. BTW I understand simultaneous BT connection is not allowed. That would mean two controllers controlling the same bike.... But they could make it way smarter then it is right now.....

 

[Kogel]

@Kogel
You mentioned "my Aux port is used by the bike tracking chip"
Is that a GPS tracker?
If so is that an Option sold by R&M in your country (there is no such option in the US that I can see), or a Custom Tracker you installed?
If a Custom Tracker, can you share which one?
Thanks again

Yes I have the RX option installed. That is a R&M option. But is is just a IOT chip and a battery that hides behind the engine cover. There are other options available that are of better quality like Powerunity (https://powunity.com/nl). However I do not know what works in the US. But it is pretty straightforward. You need a battery and a chip (either IOT or GPS/SIM card) and connect it to the Aux port. When the bike is powered it powers the chip and charges the battery of the chip. When the bike is not on power the chip operates on the spare battery.

And to add to that I have an Apple AirTag mounted underneath my saddle. Just because I can....

I realized after purchasing the bike that a thief that steals bikes like this probably knows the tracking options. The first thing I would do is take off the engine cover end unplug the Aux port. And then there is no tracking at all. Because if you take off the engine cover you are looking at the tracking device which you then just throw away.......

 

[Kogel]

If there is a need/wish I can do a detailed step by step description of the installation........

 

[Kogel]

Maybe it is anyway a good idea to create a separate topic on Automatiq

 

[scrambler]

If you feel up to it, I say, a good tutorial on the subject in its own thread will most likely be useful for many people
You can include the links to the Enviolo Retrofit tutorial pages.

 

[Kogel]

Will do.

 

[rudym]

Hi All, Thanks for letting me in on this forum. Maybe you are interested in my story with AutomatiQ. I upgraded my R&M Charger 3 to AutomatiQ two weeks ago. Installation was quit straightforward however you need to be a bit technical. Main reason to upgrade was because I was annoyed by the heavy shifting. This is mostly caused by the cable system. My bikeshop did not want to do it because of issues with the older automatic Enviolo systems.
I purchased the Enviolo 2.0 to automatiq upgrade kit as this fits the 380 hub. In the hub you have a power cable, a remote controller (Bluetooth), two magnetic rings (on on the hub and the other one on the outer sprocket) and the AutomatiQ hub itself.
Setup is also pretty straightforward. Just connect the app on your phone to the hub and you can set the hub to either automatic (the hub is controlled automatically to maintain the set RPM) or manual (which gives you 9 preset 'gears'). In either mode you can control the hub. In automatic you shift 1 or 5(long press) rpm up or down with the buttons and in Manual mode it is just like a normal shifter with 9 gears.

This all gives you two complete different riding experiences with its own purpose. After quite some kilometers I come to the conclusion the the manual mode is super if you need speed of shifting. you can very quickly move up and down. The automatic mode is perfect for touring. You just set the rpm and the bike keeps itself on the set rpm. Little bit weird in the beginning, like you drive a CVT car.

Shifting is super smooth which strengthens my thought the heavy manual shifting is mostly because of the cable system. I have to say that you do not only want your smartphone to control. Because then you need to constantly reach for your smartphone to control the hub. Which indeed is cumbersome. imo you need the BT controller. Just place it next to your brake lever and you can easy reach it even on high speed with your thumb.

There are a couple of flaws however. If you want to change from Manual to Automatic or change the stop gear ratio or the preset RPM you have to connect the app. But after setting these in the app you have to disconnect the app and reconnect the controller. Also when you 'start' your bik you need to press the center button to connect the controller to the hub. Probably because of power save. Another flaw is you are as a private person not allowed to create an Enviolo account. And therefore you can not get into the deeper set up menu and that means you can not set the motor type, wheel size etc. You need a bikeshop to do that. Which irritates me.


I will never go back to the cable shifting. I know that for sure.

@Kogel - did you have to do the hub calibration the enviolo app directs you to do?

 

[Kogel]

@Kogel - did you have to do the hub calibration the enviolo app directs you to do?

Yes I did and that is super easy and takes 1 minute. You just tilt over the bike on its stand a bit to lift the rear wheel off the ground and spin the pedals for 30 seconds.

 

[NoobNoob]

I haven’t used the Enviolo but selected a Rohloff e-14 for my R&M multicharger for a few reasons.

1) I like the idea of being in a definite gear, I think the infinite movement of a CVT will lend itself to me adjusting it constantly.

2) I have carpal tunnel syndrome and wrist pain, the idea of shifting constantly with the wrist movement put me off, especially as it is harder at lower speeds. The Rohloff with the buttons is very easy to use and places no wrist pressure. I think it’s the right balance between technology and direct control. I dislike the idea of the automatic as feel it would disconnect me from the experience.

3) the gear ratio is greater on the Rohloff, while I’ve rarely used the extremes on either end, in the few times I have had to, it’s been great.

4) the Rohloff is made in Germany and I am trying to avoid where possible Chinese made products for ethical reasons.

On the down sides I can say that down shifting while climbing takes some practice and if you don’t time it right, you’ll have a bad time, but after a while it has become second nature to me and I can downshift while climbing easily.

It is quite noisy in 7th gear, but I like the sound. Then again I like obnoxious sounding V8 cars.

 

[RMK!]

I own and like both of the drivetrains being discussed here. I have the Harley Davidson designed Serial 1 Rush Cty Speed with the Enviolo Automatiq as well as a 2019 R&M Delite GX with Rohloff E14. I have been riding the Serial 1 for 700 miles with the stock settings and have never used the Enviolo App for calibration or other settings changes. The Enviolo Automatiq equipped Serial 1requires no shifting. The bikes controller allows for setting desired assist levels and simple changes in the power settings for the 4 power modes (Eco, Tour, Sport and Boost). I did bump the power settings up a bit for Tour and Sport modes. These settings give me nearly perfect shifting and power application and the Enviolo/Brose is amazingly quiet and perfect for the way I ride that bike. Serial 1 is a new but serious player in the Ebike world and they are planning the development of their own App that will I assume allow for more drivetrain adjustments. I am very happy with the bike as it stands so not in any hurry to get the App.

The Serial 1 is used for a quick ride to the store or favorite restaurants nearby and for casual riding on weekends/evenings with my wife. She prefers a slower pace/cadence and we never go more than 30-40 miles. For me, the Serial 1 responds to torque (pedal pressure) and adjusts the power application based upon that as well as cadence. I can easily get the bike to 25mph using Sport Mode which on my bike is 75% power with the Brose motor. The Boost mode (100% power) makes the 28 mph max assist top speed attainable but reduces the range considerably. The Enviolo is the most seamless, effortless bike transmission I have ever experienced and find it perfect for that type of riding.

The R&M is a full suspension, dual battery bike that I purchased last May and it has over 5K miles on the odometer. I ride it on or off road and it is ideal for my preferred exercise rides of 50-60 miles on a combination of paved/,dirt, road/trail surfaces. The Rohloff E14 is the perfect transmission for that type of riding and the shifts are fast and mostly silent. I love the handling of the R&M and it is very composed on all but the most challenging single track trails which is fine by me (too old for that nonsense).

It really is a horses for courses situation and these 2 ebike drivetrains give me just what I want/need for those different applications. YMMV

 

[RAB63]

RMK: thank you for your incite. How do you think the brose/enviolo combination would do on your 50 - 60 mile paved/dirt/road trail excursions? I am considering the Specialized Vado 5.0 which has a similar brose/enviolo combination as your Serial 1. Up until now, I have strictly been a paved surface rider I’d like to start exploring some trails and am ready for an upgrade. However, like you, I am too old for the non-sense (low and slow is fine for me). Do you think the Automatiq would be ok on fire roads and trails, or would the uneven terrane be too much for the automatic shifting? Also, would you enjoy that riding as much if you only had a front suspension fork and suspension seat post, as opposed to the full suspension R&M? On paper, the R&M Homage checks all the boxes for me - full suspension, internal drive, belt, and dual battery. I have not test ridden one yet and am afraid that if I do, it will be game over ($$$).

 

[RMK!]

RMK: thank you for your incite. How do you think the brose/enviolo combination would do on your 50 - 60 mile paved/dirt/road trail excursions? I am considering the Specialized Vado 5.0 which has a similar brose/enviolo combination as your Serial 1. Up until now, I have strictly been a paved surface rider I’d like to start exploring some trails and am ready for an upgrade. However, like you, I am too old for the non-sense (low and slow is fine for me). Do you think the Automatiq would be ok on fire roads and trails, or would the uneven terrane be too much for the automatic shifting? Also, would you enjoy that riding as much if you only had a front suspension fork and suspension seat post, as opposed to the full suspension R&M? On paper, the R&M Homage checks all the boxes for me - full suspension, internal drive, belt, and dual battery. I have not test ridden one yet and am afraid that if I do, it will be game over ($$$).

I hope you meant insight (although I have been accused of the latter tactic) ...

I would place the the Enviolo in the non off road category. That doesn't mean it can't work but certainly not what it was designed for. I only ride my R&M on the longer ride (50-60 miles) that includes some single track dirt trails. As others have said, the Serial 1 is a great hop on and ride bike. I find the Automatiq almost magical in its operation. On rare occasions, I find it chooses gearing that is a bit lower than I'd like but that is easily remedied by increasing my cadence and pedal torque. For general bike transportation (40 miles or less), the Serial 1 is the best I have ever ridden. When I want to ride fast and far (which for me is 3-4 times a week), the R&M Delite, dual battery, full suspension with Rohloff E14 is my strong preference. It only took me 10 ebike purchases over 3 years to get to what is for me, the perfect combination of bikes.

I had a Specialized Turbo Creo setup as a gravel bike and it was really fun for high speed paved trail riding but was incredibly uncomfortable off road even with a suspension seatpost. Honestly between the Vado and the Serial 1 Rush Cty Speed, I'd take the Serial 1 any time over the similarly equipped/priced Vado.

 

[Ambiorix]

Hi All, Thanks for letting me in on this forum. Maybe you are interested in my story with AutomatiQ. I upgraded my R&M Charger 3 to AutomatiQ two weeks ago. Installation was quit straightforward however you need to be a bit technical. Main reason to upgrade was because I was annoyed by the heavy shifting. This is mostly caused by the cable system. My bikeshop did not want to do it because of issues with the older automatic Enviolo systems.
I purchased the Enviolo 2.0 to automatiq upgrade kit as this fits the 380 hub. In the hub you have a power cable, a remote controller (Bluetooth), two magnetic rings (on on the hub and the other one on the outer sprocket) and the AutomatiQ hub itself.
Setup is also pretty straightforward. Just connect the app on your phone to the hub and you can set the hub to either automatic (the hub is controlled automatically to maintain the set RPM) or manual (which gives you 9 preset 'gears'). In either mode you can control the hub. In automatic you shift 1 or 5(long press) rpm up or down with the buttons and in Manual mode it is just like a normal shifter with 9 gears.

This all gives you two complete different riding experiences with its own purpose. After quite some kilometers I come to the conclusion the the manual mode is super if you need speed of shifting. you can very quickly move up and down. The automatic mode is perfect for touring. You just set the rpm and the bike keeps itself on the set rpm. Little bit weird in the beginning, like you drive a CVT car.

Shifting is super smooth which strengthens my thought the heavy manual shifting is mostly because of the cable system. I have to say that you do not only want your smartphone to control. Because then you need to constantly reach for your smartphone to control the hub. Which indeed is cumbersome. imo you need the BT controller. Just place it next to your brake lever and you can easy reach it even on high speed with your thumb.

There are a couple of flaws however. If you want to change from Manual to Automatic or change the stop gear ratio or the preset RPM you have to connect the app. But after setting these in the app you have to disconnect the app and reconnect the controller. Also when you 'start' your bik you need to press the center button to connect the controller to the hub. Probably because of power save. Another flaw is you are as a private person not allowed to create an Enviolo account. And therefore you can not get into the deeper set up menu and that means you can not set the motor type, wheel size etc. You need a bikeshop to do that. Which irritates me.


I will never go back to the cable shifting. I know that for sure.

Hi Kogel.

I have the Gazelle Ultimate C380 HMB 2.0, and I am trying to add the Enviolo Automatiq. My main concern is with the cable that will be connected to the motor and hub.
How did you make the connections?

 

[scrambler]

Solution quoted in previous threads:
"I did call Enviolo. They told me I could use the AUX port (on Gen 4 engines) to provide the power. They even told me (as my Aux port is used by the bike tracking chip) I could splice it there. "

That appears to be the cleanest way to do it.