Enviolo vs Rohloff E14

[evolvable]

Hey everybody,

What is your opinion on Enviolo vs Rohloff E14? I would be very interested in getting your opinions on these two systems, especially if you have experience with one/both systems.

I’ve looked for articles directly comparing the Enviolo and Rohloff systems but have come up short. However, I did find this lighthearted 3min video comparing the two systems:

I haven’t tried either one (yet), so I don’t have much to contribute. But just to get the conversation going: the Enviolo is a lot cheaper and has come out with a new automatic shifting variant that might be very appealing to some people (I believe you just set the cadence you want to pedal at and the Enviolo automatiq takes care of the rest). This system is optional and can be turned off at the push of a button. Moreover, it seems to me that one might be able to shift through a large range of gears very quickly by turning the knob, whereas changing through an equally large number of gears via button pushes with the Rohloff might take a bit more time. But I could definitely be wrong about this, so feel free to jump in and correct me if you have experience with both systems.

A cool thing about the Rohloff system is that it automatically downshifts for you when you come to a full stop. Moreover, the Rohloff has an even larger range of gears than the Enviolo, which might be important to some people (although that isn't a selling point for me). For me personally, the Rohloff is attractive because electric gear shifting at the push of a button seems futuristic and fun. But that is incredibly subjective and silly, and might not be worth the extra thousand+ dollars for most people.

While both systems are supposed to be relatively maintenance free and long-lasting, there seems to be some level of agreement on the internet that the Rohloff system will (on average) last longer than an Enviolo system without needing any maintenance or replacement from a shop (unfortunate exception cases have been discussed on this forum). On the other hand, Rohloffs require a yearly oil change, which might annoy some people.

So, what is your opinion on the Enviolo vs Rohloff E14 systems?

 

[evolvable]

Nice video by Chris from Propel discussing the Rohloff E14 (and briefly the enviolo system as well). A useful addition to the conversation:

 

[scrambler]

I have always liked the Enviolo a lot, especially if you combine it with its Harmony Electronic shifting system. With that system, you can either do regular electronic shifting, or you can actually make it completely automatic. You set a preferred cadence, and the system with gradually shift as needed to keep you at that cadence. In both cases it will automatically downshift at a stop.

The issue is that depending on the type of bike you are going to use, they don't have the same level of performance.
The Enviolo does not support thru axle, it does not support as high of a torque as Rohloff or Kindernay, and it does not have as much range as these two other IGH.

So if the bike supports Enviolo and you want the simplest system around, Enviolo with harmony is a great choice. Sadly some of the people who provide the Enviolo on their bike like Riese & Mueller do not support the Harmony shifter. Evelo does.

 

[evolvable]

A relevant thread discussing how Rohloff E14 is disappointingly loud in gears 1-7 (especially 7):

New Delite Mountain Rohloff E14 issue..

I bought this bike a couple of days ago and it’s been perfect in every way apart from the crazy amount of noise it seems to make in gear 7 and lower. I also have a Cube Reaction Hybrid pro with the same Bosch CX gen 4 motor as the Delite and when running at 70-75 rpm in the lower gears, the...

electricbikereview.com

 

[steve mercier]

EBR member Marparis has put at least 45,000 trouble free km on his Enviolo before Covid sidetracked him. That is impressive to me. I would not hesitate to try that system. I have 30,000 on my excellent performing Deore XT system but I have lost count of the number of chains, cassettes and front rings I have been through.

 

[evolvable]

And here's Chris from Propel discussing the Enviolo system in depth:

"I think if somebody asked me what my favorite drive train for electric bikes right now, it would probably be this: enviolo"

 

[dmourati]

I went for Rohloff E-14 on my R&M Load 75. I like the system. My wife and I will both ride it, she has wrist issues, and I didn't think the Enviolo was a good fit.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Rohloff has more stringent requirements for OEM partners.
Before they can offer a warranty, they require OEMs to send them a frame or certificate of an approved test from a testing lab and the test has to show the frame has required stiffness.
Many Chinese companies can not or do not want to go through that test. So, they pick other options like Enviolo or Kindernay or Shimano Nexus which doesn't require that test.
Which doesn't mean Enviolo or Kindernay is bad!

 

[steve mercier]

Rohloff has more stringent requirements for OEM partners.
Before they can offer a warranty, they require OEMs to send them a frame or certificate of an approved test from a testing lab and the test has to show the frame has required stiffness.
Many Chinese companies can not or do not want to go through that test. So, they pick other options like Enviolo or Kindernay or Shimano Nexus which doesn't require that test.

Keep warm Ravi...Winter is coming ! (-:

 

[rudym]

I have the enviolo automatiq on my Harley Davidson Serial 1. I’ve been riding bikes for 55 years and have owned a rohlloff on a tout terrain but there is just something weird about setting a cadence and never shifting… at times I feel lost to the technology doing too much for me.

 

[celbii]

I have the enviolo automatiq on my Harley Davidson Serial 1. I’ve been riding bikes for 55 years and have owned a rohlloff on a tout terrain but there is just something weird about setting a cadence and never shifting… at times I feel lost to the technology doing too much for me.

How do you like the automatiq? I am considering getting a trike that has the automatiq but I cannot really find any reviews at all. Despite the weird feeling are you glad you got it or do you regret it? Also curious if when you coast does it "downshift" into an easier gear since it senses no cadence then? Thanks

 

[rudym]

The Harley Davidson Serial 1 Speed, is an exceptionally well designed Ebike bike, but, information concerning the Enviolo Automatiq hub is quite limited, as you and many others have learned.

My thoughts are based on a very short relationship with the Enviolo Automatiq. I’ve spent all my previous Ebike time on 3rd gen Bosch HS motors which use torque sensing and speed as the primary inputs to the motor's computer system. My cadence is generally 72 rpm and I normally shift when I’m less than or greater than 10 rpm of that rotational value - it’s like breathing air to me.

My Serial 1 uses a Brose HS motor with a Brose Controller, which at this point I'm quite happy with.

The Enviolo Automatiq Hub is a non cyclists dream - you get on and you go! I’ve let several of my friends, who would be clueless about shifting gears, ride it, and they had a blast.
The Enviolo Automatiq uses cadence as the primary input to the hub. I set the cadence value at 68 rpm so my feeling / sensing / riding experience should be pleasurably satisfied if everything is as advertised.

With the Brose Enviolo computer system interface used on the Serial 1 Speed, Users have three options:

#1 they can ride the bike at factory settings
#2 they can program personal settings like cadence and level of assist at different power modes at the handlebar controller
#3 they can put the APP on their smart phone and via an easy Bluetooth pairing, they can make changes via the phone APP

As of January 2022, according to several Serial 1 Speed users, it is NOT recommended that you calibrate the Enviolo Automatiq Hub after making changes to the hub via the phone; there’s a reported glitch and things can go badly and require an Enviolo customer support download to fix. Fortunately I didn’t do the calibration when I was playing around (or did I?). Now as i really think about your question, I truthfully I have no idea if the Automatiq hub is down shifting when I coast or stop. My first thought is NO, BUT, this may be a user interface error or a setting I haven’t discovered yet? I set it once at the handlebar controller, and once using the APP.
Now I’m wondering if I screwed something up when I was playing around in the APP. I had zero problems on a very hilly ride, but I did find i was changing the power assistance up and down hills as if I were shifting gears; which suggests i wasn't comfortable with the Automatiq auto shifting?

Alas - waiting on a wee bit warmer weather; i may have to get Enviolo to help me out as well.

That’s a lot of chatter from me to say, I haven’t played with my new toy long enough to KNOW it’s innate characteristics.
I bought the Serial 1, to replace a chain drive system with 4 year old technology, which is a lot more cost / maintenance in retirement.
I also have a scheduled Riese Muller Homage HS Rohloff with dual battery scheduled for build in February 2022.
This Homage is a distance machine with greater gear range.
Perhaps i miss the ol thumb clicking up and down the gears more than I realize?

 

[rudym]

Update to my previous post from this morning... played around this afternoon and used the APP to try and configure things properly.
I found settings for a starting gear (1) and max number of gears (9).
I tried several different configurations but while the starting off seemed ok, I felt completely wrung out at 25 mph.... as if the Hub couldn't provide enough gearing for the 28 mph speed.
sigh.... i'll contact enviolo and serial 1 asap.

 

[scrambler]

Question about the AutomatiQ.
Does it give you the possibility to use the system either in manual electronic shifting (changing gear level electronically), or fully automatic (you select a cadence, and it changes the gear ratio automatically to maintain the pedaling cadence), or is it Automatic only?

 

[celbii]

The Serial 1 MOSH Speed, is an exceptionally well designed Ebike bike, but, information concerning the Enviolo Automatiq hub is quite limited, as you and many others have learned.

My thoughts are based on a very short relationship with the Enviolo Automatiq. I’ve spent all my previous Ebike time on 3rd gen Bosch HS motors which use torque sensing and speed as the primary inputs to the motor's computer system. My cadence is generally 72 rpm and I normally shift when I’m less than or greater than 10 rpm of that rotational value - it’s like breathing air to me.

My Serial 1 uses a Brose HS motor with a Brose Controller, which at this point I'm quite happy with.

The Enviolo Automatiq Hub is a non cyclists dream - you get on and you go! I’ve let several of my friends, who would be clueless about shifting gears, ride it, and they had a blast.
The Enviolo Automatiq uses cadence as the primary input to the hub. I set the cadence value at 68 rpm so my feeling / sensing / riding experience should be pleasurably satisfied if everything is as advertised.

With the Brose Enviolo computer system interface used on the Serial 1 Mosh Speed, Users have three options:

#1 they can ride the bike at factory settings
#2 they can program personal settings like cadence and level of assist at different power modes at the handlebar controller
#3 they can put the APP on their smart phone and via an easy Bluetooth pairing, they can make changes via the phone APP

As of January 2022, according to several Serial 1 Mosh Speed users, it is NOT recommended that you calibrate the Enviolo Automatiq Hub after making changes to the hub via the phone; there’s a reported glitch and things can go badly and require an Enviolo customer support download to fix. Fortunately I didn’t do the calibration when I was playing around (or did I?). Now as i really think about your question, I truthfully I have no idea if the Automatiq hub is down shifting when I coast or stop. My first thought is NO, BUT, this may be a user interface error or a setting I haven’t discovered yet? I set it once at the handlebar controller, and once using the APP.
Now I’m wondering if I screwed something up when I was playing around in the APP. I had zero problems on a very hilly ride, but I did find i was changing the power assistance up and down hills as if I were shifting gears; which suggests i wasn't comfortable with the Automatiq auto shifting?

Alas - waiting on a wee bit warmer weather; i may have to get Enviolo to help me out as well.

That’s a lot of chatter from me to say, I haven’t played with my new toy long enough to KNOW it’s inate characteristics.
I bought the Serial 1, to replace a chain drive system with 4 year old technology, which is a lot more cost / maintenance in retirement.
I also have a scheduled Riese Muller Homage HS Rohloff with dual battery scheduled for build in February 2022.
This Homage is a distance machine with greater gear range.
Perhaps i miss the ol thumb clicking up and down the gears more than I realize?

Wow @rudym thank you for taking the time to write out all of this! This is really the first bit of info I have been able to find online now in regards to the automatiq, short of going down a rabbit hole on youtube last night at about 3 am for what I think was a German E-bike maker that uses the automatiq, as well as finding the bikes facebook page, also in German, which I am thankful my google chrome has a "translate all" button and I was able to translate all the German comments into English and found more info.

I saw a lot of posts of people having pairing issues in one way or another, but it was difficult to tell what exactly, as well as two vids of the hubs making strange noises. Compile those reports on top of reports of Rohloffs puking up oil and what not... I think ultimately as much as I'd like a IGH, and especially the Automatiq for what it can bring to a novice rider who may not have the same experience under their belt as we do(for instance I was looking at it for my mother who had a stroke and has memory issues, and if I could get her riding on the automatiq it would simply be easier than shifting), but I just simply can't really risk have issues with either one of them and having a bike or trike rendered unusable since there is no real service point for either of them here in Oklahoma and they would have to be shipped out etc.

I think ultimately seeing the random failures/issues with both products I will stick to a standard derailleur setup just for the simple fact that I know I can fix it myself and if not I can take it to any bike shop out here in the boonies and they can fix it as well. I truly appreciate your feedback more than you know and I would love to get an Automatiq equipped trike for my purposes but between the possible firmware issues you list and seeing similar if not the same ones in the small german facebook group for just one specific bike model, as well as the videos of the random hub noises, plus all the pictures i've seen about rohloffs spilling oil... I suppose its better i don't.

That being said if I lived somewhere that was near a service center for either that I knew I could get quick turnaround time on either product I would go with one or the other in a heartbeat, probably the automatiq for my application but I have been eying the rohloff for a while as well.

 

[rudym]

Question about the AutomatiQ.
Does it give you the possibility to use the system either in manual electronic shifting (changing gear level electronically), or fully automatic (you select a cadence, and it changes the gear ratio automatically to maintain the pedaling cadence), or is it Automatic only?

On the Enviolo APP you have an option to select AutomatiQ or Manual but trying to shift in manual mode means you would be hitting the arrow key constantly on the smart phone - that would be cumbersome at best. I read a thread somewhere elsewhere that suggested conflicts can be created trying to use an automatic hub in the manual mode.

 

[rudym]

Wow @rudym thank you for taking the time to write out all of this! This is really the first bit of info I have been able to find online now in regards to the automatiq, short of going down a rabbit hole on youtube last night at about 3 am for what I think was a German E-bike maker that uses the automatiq, as well as finding the bikes facebook page, also in German, which I am thankful my google chrome has a "translate all" button and I was able to translate all the German comments into English and found more info.

I saw a lot of posts of people having pairing issues in one way or another, but it was difficult to tell what exactly, as well as two vids of the hubs making strange noises. Compile those reports on top of reports of Rohloffs puking up oil and what not... I think ultimately as much as I'd like a IGH, and especially the Automatiq for what it can bring to a novice rider who may not have the same experience under their belt as we do(for instance I was looking at it for my mother who had a stroke and has memory issues, and if I could get her riding on the automatiq it would simply be easier than shifting), but I just simply can't really risk have issues with either one of them and having a bike or trike rendered unusable since there is no real service point for either of them here in Oklahoma and they would have to be shipped out etc.

I think ultimately seeing the random failures/issues with both products I will stick to a standard derailleur setup just for the simple fact that I know I can fix it myself and if not I can take it to any bike shop out here in the boonies and they can fix it as well. I truly appreciate your feedback more than you know and I would love to get an Automatiq equipped trike for my purposes but between the possible firmware issues you list and seeing similar if not the same ones in the small german facebook group for just one specific bike model, as well as the videos of the random hub noises, plus all the pictures i've seen about rohloffs spilling oil... I suppose its better i don't.

That being said if I lived somewhere that was near a service center for either that I knew I could get quick turnaround time on either product I would go with one or the other in a heartbeat, probably the automatiq for my application but I have been eying the rohloff for a while as well.

@celbii - don't jump off the IGH train yet...Using the handlebar controller, you can do the initial set it up, then off you go.
I haven't had "a problem" that would not allow me to use the bike as a set it and forget it, jump on and go bike, and it gets up to 21 MPH easy peasy.
I'm having a specific problem trying to get the Brose S motor to get to the speed of 28 MPH, because, currently it feels as if the Enviolo AutomatiQ doesn't have enough top end range; I top out at 24.5 MPH at aprox 120 rpm.
I have avoided calibrating / pairing the hub using the APP because of warnings on the forum, thus i am awaiting feedback from Enviolo.
On a side note, Enviolo's trouble shooting site doesn't talk about the Brose motor line up, only Bosch.

I hope that adds some more detailed and useful info. If i was impaired, let's say i had a wrist problem, the AutomatiQ feature would rock.

 

[scrambler]

I'm having a specific problem trying to get the Brose S motor to get to the speed of 28 MPH, because, currently it feels as if the Enviolo AutomatiQ doesn't have enough top end range; I top out at 24.5 MPH at aprox 120 rpm.
I have avoided calibrating / pairing the hub using the APP because of warnings on the forum, thus i am awaiting feedback from Enviolo.

If you don't need the lowest gears, you could shift the gear ratio towards more speed by replacing the rear sprocket by a slightly smaller one (like going from 24 to 22 on a gates belt), or a slightly larger Front sprocket.
If using a belt, a small calculation of the belt length would be good to see if the current system would work as is, or if a slightly longer or shorter belt would be needed.

 

[Kogel]

Hi All, Thanks for letting me in on this forum. Maybe you are interested in my story with AutomatiQ. I upgraded my R&M Charger 3 to AutomatiQ two weeks ago. Installation was quit straightforward however you need to be a bit technical. Main reason to upgrade was because I was annoyed by the heavy shifting. This is mostly caused by the cable system. My bikeshop did not want to do it because of issues with the older automatic Enviolo systems.
I purchased the Enviolo 2.0 to automatiq upgrade kit as this fits the 380 hub. In the hub you have a power cable, a remote controller (Bluetooth), two magnetic rings (on on the hub and the other one on the outer sprocket) and the AutomatiQ hub itself.
Setup is also pretty straightforward. Just connect the app on your phone to the hub and you can set the hub to either automatic (the hub is controlled automatically to maintain the set RPM) or manual (which gives you 9 preset 'gears'). In either mode you can control the hub. In automatic you shift 1 or 5(long press) rpm up or down with the buttons and in Manual mode it is just like a normal shifter with 9 gears.

This all gives you two complete different riding experiences with its own purpose. After quite some kilometers I come to the conclusion the the manual mode is super if you need speed of shifting. you can very quickly move up and down. The automatic mode is perfect for touring. You just set the rpm and the bike keeps itself on the set rpm. Little bit weird in the beginning, like you drive a CVT car.

Shifting is super smooth which strengthens my thought the heavy manual shifting is mostly because of the cable system. I have to say that you do not only want your smartphone to control. Because then you need to constantly reach for your smartphone to control the hub. Which indeed is cumbersome. imo you need the BT controller. Just place it next to your brake lever and you can easy reach it even on high speed with your thumb.

There are a couple of flaws however. If you want to change from Manual to Automatic or change the stop gear ratio or the preset RPM you have to connect the app. But after setting these in the app you have to disconnect the app and reconnect the controller. Also when you 'start' your bik you need to press the center button to connect the controller to the hub. Probably because of power save. Another flaw is you are as a private person not allowed to create an Enviolo account. And therefore you can not get into the deeper set up menu and that means you can not set the motor type, wheel size etc. You need a bikeshop to do that. Which irritates me.


I will never go back to the cable shifting. I know that for sure.

 

[Bill G]

I have a new Nevo 3 with the manual Enviolo. I've used it on a few winter rides (Upstate NY) and find it a pleasure to use. My previous experience has been with derailleur shifting. The twist shifter does require some effort, but at age 77 it's not a problem for me. For someone with any type of wrist issues, it might well be a challenge. I find the ability to shift while stopped a game changer. The Rohloff looks great with its wider range and bulletproof reliability. However, I could not justify the price given the amount of riding I do.