ELF - Very Interested - But a few questions

[Popeye Gordon]

I disagree with Popeye here. I control the lane that I'm using. I do choose safe places to pull off and 'release' faster traffic.
I help to create circumstances for the motorist to make a safe pass; the motorist forgets about me as soon as they get past me.
In states with a 3ft passing law, a lane would have to be 15ft wide in order for a motorist to legally pass my ELF while sharing my lane with me (4ft ELF + 3ft space + 7ft vehicle width + 1ft for mirrors).
Crossing a double yellow line to pass a cyclist is legal in specified circumstances in North Carolina, and in other states.
I am League Cycling Instructor #3603.

I disagree with laws that require a full lane when passing, they are dangerous. I challenged Tom's seemingly adamant stance that we should take over the lane. Just as car drivers are mandated to share the road, we should also share it as much as possible. To do otherwise angers motorists and is not good will for bicyclists. I have actually considered making a large bumper sticker saying "Pass me in THIS lane" with an arrow pointing down. I try to wave by those who are holding back behind me. I live in the most dangerous state for bicyclists, Florida, but I am treated pretty well in my town because they see me keeping to the far right at all times and they see me waving drivers by or pulling off to let them pass. I also have considerable experience as a former corporate bike club president and commute reduction coordinator as well as 10 years of ebike commuting before retirement. I say share the road.

 

[TomGibb]

Popeye, I'm not giving advice. I'm telling what I do and what I experienced (before adding the diodes to join the batteries). (I have not reprogrammed the controller or modified the 12volt module.) I'm riding an early model ELF and the batteries both stop supplying power without warning. Usually on a hill. As far as the Cycleanalyst monitoring two batteries is concerned, no it will not monitor individual batteries in parallel any more than it would monitor individual cells in a battery. However my Cycleanalyst will monitor more than one battery as long as you tell it that you have switched batteries. But it does only monitor one battery at a time. If you read more carefully you will see that what I said before is what I just said now just not as much detail. You may be correct that connecting two lithium batteries may cause problems. That is why I installed the diodes. With the diodes installed, the batteries are not able to receive any charge from each other. The diodes act like electric check valves and only allow current to flow out of the batteries. Thus, the battery chargers must be connected directly to the batteries and the diodes must be removed in order to charge. I did all of that by using the same connectors on the diodes as OrganicTransit installed on the batteries. It is a simple matter of unplugging the batteries from the diodes and plugging the chargers into the batteries. (Since the solar panel stopped working years ago, the diodes blocking the flow of current into the batteries is not a problem.)

Which heavy duty marine battery switch did you install? I don't recall seeing any that did not have a position that parallels the batteries. That was why I made the diode system.

As far as irritating drivers is concerned, if I know that I am holding up a line of traffic more than one or two cars I do pull off at the first opportunity and let them pass. In Maryland, bicyclists have the right of way and can take the lane if it is more safe than riding at the shoulder. Maryland also has a 3 foot passing law. The vast majority of drivers seem to think that the ELF is a really cool vehicle, and wave and smile and toot their horns in a cheerful way. I don't think I have ever had anyone get angry when I am riding my ELF. When I'm riding my Rotovelo I do occasionally get some angry drivers. Since I ride both vehicles the same way and I ride my recumbent tricycle the same way I'm not sure what the difference is. Perhaps it is because the Rotovelo looks like it might be able to go faster.

Popeye, I'm quite surprised at your accusatory statement "if he owns an ELF"! I was with (and a moderator of) the elf Owners Group on Facebook for many years with you. I did close that Facebook account when Facebook lost all that data. Perhaps all my posts disappeared when I did? If not, you should go back and re-read them.

I'm an electrical engineer and built my first electric gocart and kayak in 1966.

 

[TomGibb]

I disagree with laws that require a full lane when passing, they are dangerous. I challenged Tom's seemingly adamant stance that we should take over the lane. Just as car drivers are mandated to share the road, we should also share it as much as possible. To do otherwise angers motorists and is not good will for bicyclists. I have actually considered making a large bumper sticker saying "Pass me in THIS lane" with an arrow pointing down. I try to wave by those who are holding back behind me. I live in the most dangerous state for bicyclists, Florida, but I am treated pretty well in my town because they see me keeping to the far right at all times and they see me waving drivers by or pulling off to let them pass. I also have considerable experience as a former corporate bike club president and commute reduction coordinator as well as 10 years of ebike commuting before retirement. I say share the road.

Popeye, I don't have any "adamant stance" on taking the lane! Please be more careful- I am very careful when I write. I said very clearly that I take the lane. I did not say that anyone else should take the lane. I have waited for cars to pass on almost every commute except for the days when there was no traffic.

 

[Popeye Gordon]

Popeye, I don't have any "adamant stance" on taking the lane! Please be more careful- I am very careful when I write. I said very clearly that I take the lane. I did not say that anyone else should take the lane. I have waited for cars to pass on almost every commute except for the days when there was no traffic.

My comment stands. You misquoted me here. 'Seemingly adamant' was my interpretation of the tone of your post. Sharing the road is important. There are marine switches that are make before break and break before make. All diodes lose power by resistance and voltage drops. No ebike made can tackle all hills, especially with the load of an ELF. Sometimes we need to take a different route or get out and push. A man's gotta know his limitations.

 

[TomGibb]

Popeye, could you please share the list of Organic Transit ELF forums? It would be a great help to all of us. Thank you.

 

[TomGibb]

My comment stands. You misquoted me here. 'Seemingly adamant' was my interpretation of the tone of your post. Sharing the road is important. There are marine switches that are make before break and break before make. All diodes lose power by resistance and voltage drops. No ebike made can tackle all hills, especially with the load of an ELF. Sometimes we need to take a different route or get out and push. A man's gotta know his limitations.

After re-reading my post I see how you can take the word "would" as a recommendation. However, it was not intended as such. As my edit indicates, it was an indication that it happened in the past since I no longer use the ELF for commuting. I should be more careful with the choice of words (oops).
The Schottky diodes use very little current and even switches have some voltage drop across them. Not only that but the ELF which I have was not equipped with a pre-charge resistor to mitigate the arc when connecting the battery. Now there's only one connection per trip. (I never added a pre-charge resistor but will before using the ELF again because Rob Cotter told me that one owner had the battery connection weld itself from the arc! (Humm, I wonder how much the burns on the contacts reduce the battery voltage... probably not very much because the contacts wipe across each other when the plugs are being connected.)
I realize the diodes are expensive but because my batteries just shut off I like the freedom of not having to worry about loss of power. I also think it's really cool how I actually get more mileage by using the diodes then I did by switching batteries. I guess that extra mileage makes up for the voltage drop?

Meeting Mr. Cotter and the other Organic Transit folks at the factory was cool. I remember thinking how quiet and humble Rob Cotter was. I hope that he is doing OK.

 

[TomGibb]

Here is a picture of the ELF with an illuminated pole that I added. It now has a safety green flag on top.

 

[Popeye Gordon]

After re-reading my post I see how you can take the word "would" as a recommendation. However, it was not intended as such. As my edit indicates, it was an indication that it happened in the past since I no longer use the ELF for commuting. I should be more careful with the choice of words (oops).
The Schottky diodes use very little current and even switches have some voltage drop across them. Not only that but the ELF which I have was not equipped with a pre-charge resistor to mitigate the arc when connecting the battery. Now there's only one connection per trip. (I never added a pre-charge resistor but will before using the ELF again because Rob Cotter told me that one owner had the battery connection weld itself from the arc! (Humm, I wonder how much the burns on the contacts reduce the battery voltage... probably not very much because the contacts wipe across each other when the plugs are being connected.)
I realize the diodes are expensive but because my batteries just shut off I like the freedom of not having to worry about loss of power. I also think it's really cool how I actually get more mileage by using the diodes then I did by switching batteries. I guess that extra mileage makes up for the voltage drop?

Meeting Mr. Cotter and the other Organic Transit folks at the factory was cool. I remember thinking how quiet and humble Rob Cotter was. I hope that he is doing OK.

I went to the Whale packs with a built in power switch but I never had any real issues with arcing. I don't wish ill will to Rob now but there were way too many disgruntled employees who complained of not being treated with respect but rather as rental tools in the factory. When the business is re-started by a new owner it should be much better. My new ELF was sabotaged by someone at the plant and its hub exploded on delivery day.

 

[TomGibb]

Sorry for hijacking the post.

 

[Popeye Gordon]

Popeye, could you please share the list of Organic Transit ELF forums? It would be a great help to all of us. Thank you.

The best is the closed Facebook group you have to join. It is active with 500 members and has a 6 year archive of repairs and upgrades. There are also two public groups in FB that are smaller. I am trying to get all of them merged. One member started a site that offers info and used listings for sale: AnyoneCanBike.com