eBikes overtake Road Bikes

[JRA]

And not just on the road!

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Not new news nor even all that surprising and all on here are a part of it.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

It seems from this pov that the industry's engineering and innovative break throughs are happening in the ebike world right now, not in the analog. Possibly the last great engineering triumph with standard pedal power was the creation and steady refinement of the Pinion center drive transmission.....

 

[Ebiker01]

When an company will come with A five year warranty for the motors and the battery on ebikes , sales will X 10 times !!
Right know after two or three years an ebike is almost disposable or sold as "used".

 

[rich c]

They aren't topping the charts around Central IL. The LBS sells traditional bicycles close to 20 traditional to 1 eBike. I can ride everyday for weeks and not see another eBike on the paved greenway. But tech writers sure love to pump eBike enthusiasts up with all these kinds of articles. I really don't think a battery warranty changes anyone's mind to ride an Ebike or traditional. It sure didn't deter me, and I own 5 of them.

 

[Mango1234]

Im just east of you and my town is littered with teal colored bike share bikes. Many are electric.

 

[HCooke]

Pedego has a five year warranty.

 

[AHicks]

When an company will come with A five year warranty for the motors and the battery on ebikes , sales will X 10 times !!
Right know after two or three years an ebike is almost disposable or sold as "used".

Not real sure where you are getting your info or why you have this opinion? I have a 5 year old Rad that's still a pretty awesome bike. It will still go the same distance now it would when new. It shifts perfectly and there's not a rattle on it anywhere. Hardly something to be called "disposable" in anyone's imagination, but clearly would have to be sold as "used". Considering everyone saying the RAD product is "cheap" and made from poor quality components, I don't think the bike is doing so bad when compared to anything else in it's price class, or even when the price it sold for is doubled.

Granted, there is some real junk available, an example might be some of the stuff sold on Amazon, but as a rule I think a bike built/assembled using non proprietary parts can have a VERY long service life, if given a little care. No different that a conventional pedal bike.

 

[theemartymac]

I believe we will look back at the introduction of e-bikes to the mainstream as we did the introduction of the modern 10-speed drivetrain in the 70's. We are still a few years off of real standardization and uniformity of product, but I'd argue that this will eventually be seen as just the logical evolution of the traditional bicycle and will dominate the market share moving forward.

 

[Marci jo]

Granted, there is some real junk available, an example might be some of the stuff sold on Amazon, but as a rule I think a bike built/assembled using non proprietary parts can have a VERY long service life, if given a little care. No different that a conventional pedal bike.

OK AHicks, I need to respectfully disagree with your comment “No different that a conventional pedal bike.”
A conventional bike, with minimal care, can last 10, 20, or more years. One of my cycling friends rides a 30 year old Giant road bike. I can’t imagine an ebike lasting 20 years, without significant parts replacement, provided they are available. Of course there will be a few exceptions, including your RAD ebike.
More miles and smiles!

 

[theemartymac]

They aren't topping the charts around Central IL. The LBS sells traditional bicycles close to 20 traditional to 1 eBike. I can ride everyday for weeks and not see another eBike on the paved greenway. But tech writers sure love to pump eBike enthusiasts up with all these kinds of articles. I really don't think a battery warranty changes anyone's mind to ride an Ebike or traditional. It sure didn't deter me, and I own 5 of them.

Here in a west-coast bicycle friendly city, I would definitely suggest that the e-bicycle sales market is about to, or even has surpassed the traditional bikes if you consider miles ridden. There are at least as many exclusive e-bike stores as exclusively traditional now in my city, and most mixed-retailers are devoting a lot of floor space to them as well. Many folks around here are using an ebike as primary family transportation, and the multi-kid cargo bikes are ubiquitous on the roads around the city.

While I suspect 'acoustic' bikes will dominate sales numbers for a long time - largely because of the truly massive numbers of youth bikes sold - as a bike commuter, I encounter other e-bikers at somewhere near a 50/50 ratio now on city infrastructure. I'm certain the cross country trails are a different story, but that is a minority of riders out here.

 

[fooferdoggie]

even bosch who supports their old stuff e bikes have a limited shelf life. all the parts on my bike are normal parts but the motor and battery when bosch no longer makes them your stuck,

 

[AHicks]

OK AHicks, I need to respectfully disagree with your comment “No different that a conventional pedal bike.”
A conventional bike, with minimal care, can last 10, 20, or more years. One of my cycling friends rides a 30 year old Giant road bike. I can’t imagine an ebike lasting 20 years, without significant parts replacement, provided they are available. Of course there will be a few exceptions, including your RAD ebike.
More miles and smiles!

Point taken Marci jo, but I think there's a counterpoint to be made as well. I doubt seriously there are many 30 year old conventional bikes around that have been actively ridden, where the owner/rider can honestly say that they've never needed a replacement part either.

Because an e-bike is electric does throw some complexity into the issue, but there's also an added value involved as well to consider (to a bike that's running anyway). Continuing with the RAD example, there's just 2 (or 3 if you count the controller/display/electrical) expensive parts. The battery and the motor. The motors seem to be going forever, WAY beyond what was expected of them originally, and honestly they aren't that expensive to replace - ESPECIALLY - when compared to more expensive bikes that use motors made from unobtainium. The battery is nothing special, and replacements that will install with an absolute minimum amount of trouble are widely available - which keeps the cost in the "affordable" range. And if you want to get into the controller/display, there are many "kits" available that will replace ALL of the e-bikes electrical, minus motor and battery.

We can discuss/argue the point the rest of the day, but bottom line, even just a decent bike should not be considered a "disposable". Not in my mind anyway.

Last, there IS a point I used to make often that might apply here. Kind of helps make your point. When considering a 1500 dollar bike, vs. one costing 3000, the 1500 dollar bike can be ridden for 3-4 years, and replaced with a brand new 1500 bike having all brand new components AND a warranty leaving you with a total of 3000 spent. Lets compare this brand new second 1500 dollar bike, with all of the latest developments made in the last 3-4 years, to that 3-4 year old 3000 dollar bike. Which would you rather have? -Al

 

[fooferdoggie]

Point taken Marci jo, but I think there's a counterpoint to be made as well. I doubt seriously there are many 30 year old conventional bikes around that have been actively ridden, where the owner/rider can honestly say that they've never needed a replacement part either.

Because an e-bike is electric does throw some complexity into the issue, but there's also an added value involved as well to consider (to a bike that's running anyway). Continuing with the RAD example, there's just 2 (or 3 if you count the controller/display/electrical) expensive parts. The battery and the motor. The motors seem to be going forever, WAY beyond what was expected of them originally, and honestly they aren't that expensive to replace - ESPECIALLY - when compared to more expensive bikes that use motors made from unobtainium. The battery is nothing special, and replacements that will install with an absolute minimum amount of trouble are widely available - which keeps the cost in the "affordable" range. And if you want to get into the controller/display, there are many "kits" available that will replace ALL of the e-bikes electrical, minus motor and battery.

We can discuss/argue the point the rest of the day, but bottom line, even just a decent bike should not be considered a "disposable". Not in my mind anyway.

Last, there IS a point I used to make often that might apply here. Kind of helps make your point. When considering a 1500 dollar bike, vs. one costing 3000, the 1500 dollar bike can be ridden for 3-4 years, and replaced with a brand new 1500 bike having all brand new components AND a warranty leaving you with a total of 3000 spent. Lets compare this brand new second 1500 dollar bike, with all of the latest developments made in the last 3-4 years, to that 3-4 year old 3000 dollar bike. Which would you rather have? -Al

this assumes the bike owner has the skill to make a franken bike work. constantly replacing batteries and such does not make that 1,500 bike I have 12,000 miles on my bosch powered bike on the original battery is that 1,500 bike is going to need a lot get that kind of mileage on it and it will never be as smooth and responsive. I doubt most people on cheap bikes are going to get 3 to 4 years on their battery. myself I want my bike to feel great under me and to be reliable. I don't want to have to replace parts or worry about it failing because it has poor quality parts and build.

 

[AHicks]

this assumes the bike owner has the skill to make a franken bike work. constantly replacing batteries and such does not make that 1,500 bike I have 12,000 miles on my bosch powered bike on the original battery is that 1,500 bike is going to need a lot get that kind of mileage on it and it will never be as smooth and responsive. I doubt most people on cheap bikes are going to get 3 to 4 years on their battery. myself I want my bike to feel great under me and to be reliable. I don't want to have to replace parts or worry about it failing because it has poor quality parts and build.

Seems to me your opinions are based more on doubts and wishes rather than facts?

Truth be known, I don't think these "inexpensive" bikes have been out long enough to know how long batteries are going to last. Same battery life naysayers were saying the motors wouldn't last too. I think they've already been proven wrong....

Do as you like, but all due respect, maybe you could do that WITHOUT bad mouthing stuff you know nothing about?

 

[fooferdoggie]

Seems to me your opinions are based more on doubts and wishes rather than facts?

Truth be known, I don't think these "inexpensive" bikes have been out long enough to know how long batteries are going to last. Same battery life naysayers were saying the motors wouldn't last too. I think they've already been proven wrong....

Do as you like, but all due respect, maybe you could do that WITHOUT bad mouthing stuff you know nothing about?

as you said tiem has not been ehough to know for sure so dont promote something that may fail right? So it was ok for you do badmouth people that buy 3000,00 bikes??

 

[PedalUma]

Great discussion. I recently popped in a new motor into a bike before it needed replacement. It just slid into the bottom bracket. Later I will overhaul the old one. Same with batteries on my builds. I can just swap them using a very common connector. You cannot do this with proprietary bikes. That is why they go obsolete. I am headed to the ATM now to buy a Yuba Mundo that is in perfect condition to convert. About 30% of the bikes I see in my area are electric. Among the middle class it is more like 60%, including roadies in spandex.

 

[Art Deco]

OK AHicks, I need to respectfully disagree with your comment “No different that a conventional pedal bike.”
A conventional bike, with minimal care, can last 10, 20, or more years. One of my cycling friends rides a 30 year old Giant road bike. I can’t imagine an ebike lasting 20 years, without significant parts replacement, provided they are available. Of course there will be a few exceptions, including your RAD ebike.
More miles and smiles!

I don't even see many 20 or 30 year old cars that are driven daily, TBH. Yes, they could last that long with reasonable maintenance, but very few do. I hate that, but it's true in my area.

 

[RandallS]

Great discussion. I recently popped in a new motor into a bike before it needed replacement. It just slid into the bottom bracket. Later I will overhaul the old one. Same with batteries on my builds. I can just swap them using a very common connector. You cannot do this with proprietary bikes. That is why they go obsolete. I am headed to the ATM now to buy a Yuba Mundo that is in perfect condition to convert. About 30% of the bikes I see in my area are electric. Among the middle class it is more like 60%, including roadies in spandex.

I still have my 2011 BionX powered Electra Townie. Works great except for ONE fault - the BMS mis-reports battery capacity.
When fully charged it displays 100% and goes to 5% within a Km, but 50km later, you're still going.
As it's my spare and is always ridden when they are out with me, we don't worry about it much, but we try to limit the ride to sensible lengths and pick the Pub accordingly.
The odometer works OK, so tracking distance is no problem.

One of these days I will try a bit harder to find a replacement but I'm not holding my breath. The proprietary nature of the BionX system is such that a repair might be a bit too pricy for the remaining value of the bike.
Somebody is going to get a good deal soon - I am running out of storage space...

 

[AHicks]

as you said tiem has not been ehough to know for sure so dont promote something that may fail right? So it was ok for you do badmouth people that buy 3000,00 bikes??

Please show me a quote of where I was bad mouthing 3000 dollar bikes. Regarding the 3000 bike, I presented an exercise in logic. You were free to make your own call on which was the better deal. I did NOT pull some information based on nothing but making my point out of thin air (I own it, therefor it must be best?).

I have some questions for you regarding YOUR bike. Would you call it a franken bike if it needed a new motor and you had it replaced? Are you going to sit there and tell me that will NEVER happen? What do you think the availability chances are of having a motor that will fit your bike 3-4 years down the road? Would you think they would be as good as somebody looking for a 500w Bafang? What if there wasn't one available for your bike? What would you think of your reliable comfortable 3000 dollar bike then? How much would YOU spend for a new battery or a new motor, if you needed one at some point? Do you think YOUR bike might become a "disposable" at some point because some part you need, whatever it might be, isn't available anywhere or is priced at some ridicoulus price?

 

[fooferdoggie]

Please show me a quote of where I was bad mouthing 3000 dollar bikes. Regarding the 3000 bike, I presented an exercise in logic. You were free to make your own call on which was the better deal. I did NOT pull some information based on nothing but making my point out of thin air (I own it, therefor it must be best?).

I have some questions for you regarding YOUR bike. Would you call it a franken bike if it needed a new motor and you had it replaced? Are you going to sit there and tell me that will NEVER happen? What do you think the availability chances are of having a motor that will fit your bike 3-4 years down the road? Would you think they would be as good as somebody looking for a 500w Bafang? What if there wasn't one available for your bike? What would you think of your reliable comfortable 3000 dollar bike then? How much would YOU spend for a new battery or a new motor, if you needed one at some point? Do you think YOUR bike might become a "disposable" at some point because some part you need, whatever it might be, isn't available anywhere or is priced at some ridicoulus price?

you are knocking people that buy better bikes come on now. your assuming people that own lower end bike can change out the electronics and battery themselves. I bought Bosch because they have long term support of all their stuff. but I know in the long term its disposable. But what will I have? a great enjoyment of riding a bike that feels great under me. Not a bike that will feel cheap shift less then perfectly be really heavy and wont feel natural peddling. I have ridden way to long on a regular bike to go over to the feel of an electric scooter. I ride for exercise I want to be able to spin and I want and need my bike reliable. you also need to go by miles. How many of the Lower end bikes or replacement parts would I need to do 12,000 miles?