Ebike suggestion in the range 800-1800$ for a guy in his thirties (first ebike)

[venexiano]

I am in my thirties, I play soccer and beach volleyball and after a shower I do not wanna sweat again if I ride my bike downtown for a drink. The same if I have a fancy meeting in the morning and I need to dress up. I would like at least decide if I wanna sweat or not. I do not own a car and no plan to buy one. I do grocery by bike (on my backpack). I am debating if I should convert my Schwinn "Searcher 4" Sport Hybrid into a e-bike or I should just buy my first ebike. Seems like I am not gonna save too much by converting it, and my V-brakes might not be the safest thing. I read a lot online in the past days. I posted here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=99190 to get suggestion about the conversion but I got no answer. As for the ebike I am looking for, I am looking into the price range 800-1800, and one option that seems a good compromise between quality and price is the Ride1up City500 (with rack and fenders) which would be about 1200-1300$. Reviews for that bike are very good. The only missing thing is the torque sensor. Am I wrong in saying that the cheapest option for a torque sensor is the Juiced CrossCurrent S at 1700$ (including fenders and rack). Which one do you suggest me? Any better priced bike having the torque? Now my questions/requirements are:

1) Do I need the torque sensor?
2) I live in Florida (Gainesville) and it rains a lot especially in the summer. Which bike holds better the rain?
3) Juiced comes with USB port but the review page on electricbikereview.com says it is disabled. I am waiting an answer for the Ride1up. Isn't it handy if you go over a friend to have the option to take the battery upstairs and USB-charge it without having to carry the charger with you?
4) Once I remove the battery, I guess rain might be a problem if parked outdoor (which I always do with my Shwinn bike). Any model with a dummy plug to protect connections from rain?
5) Rack is essential for grocery, but to be honest, a solid rack in which I can carry my light girlfriend (130 pounds) for short 1-2 miles ride would be best.
6) Gainesville is pretty flat with some hills, nothing crazy.
7) Also Torque sensor comes with different level of assistance right? So basically Cadence is an addition (to your pedaling) while Torque is a multiplier (of your pedaling), right? So Different level of assistance in Torque means you change the multiplier, while with Cadence you change the addend, correct?
8) I cant really understand what "Torque and Cadence Pedal Sensor" means for the Juiced CrossCurrent S. Why both? Does it mean I can deactivated Torque and only use Cadence to turn the motor on? Or deactivate Torque and only use cadence?
9) But what is the difference between using the throttle and using cadence? Isn't the throttle just giving a smooth variation of assistance based on how much you turn it, while Cadence will only have discrete levels of assistance (level 1, level 2 etc)? It is like adding an integer (cadence), or adding a real number (throttle), right?
10) Concluding, isn't throttle mode technically still a pedal assisted mode? Since if you pedal while turning the throttle then you are helping out the motor, or am I wrong?

Which one do you think would be the best ebike for me?

Thank you
Best
A.

 

[Ebiker01]

If you convert your present bike you must be able to also fix it yourself. An ebike shop charges a lot for repairs.
If you get anything under 2k is so and so...
I also use the throttle and pedal simultaneously sometimes and i’ll wait for the answer to your q b/c i believe your right and is intersting to hear other opinions.
And most imp. Buy NEW with warranty.
I am also a guy in his 30’s, well late 30’s for me and started with a lemon 2years ago that i spent 500$ used and spent another 1..2-1.3k to fix and upgrade .
And later made the move and invested 3.5k in A s pedelec. And even for that i invetsed Nother 1.5k in high end components/lights.
Good thing is i have 2 e bikes now. One for groceries /rainy days and one for good weather/commuting.
So, if you spend 1.2k now, you may have to spend another 1grand down the road ...and soon it will total 3k, which brings you to point 0 - Why not get a Reliable , highly capable e bike now for 2.5-3k ?
And most likely you’ll love the speed so get an S - pedelec, meaning an e bike that does 28mph.
Juiced , Easy motion, And few others have them. 2k and up ! Again buy New with LOCAL DEALER within 50miles.
Bh easy motion is a great company. Bulls , haibike , and a few others are good too. But 2 years from now a lot of this present tech. In ebikes Will be obsolete. They are already coming up with solid state batteries, and those will work with diff. Components.
Ps- the best bike for you would be an. S-pedelec with throttle (limited at 20mph) and PAS limit max 28mph from anybof those companies with a dealer within 50miles of your zip.
Enjoy the carefull research and have fun !

 

[harryS]

I'll reply from the perspective of a conversion guy. I've ridden torque sensor ebikes. The big change is that I can ride those T/S ebikes slowly with minimal pressure on the pedals. A cadence sensor ebike will want to hit 10 mph or more as soon as the pedal movement is confirmed. The work-around for me is that I turn off pedal assist for slow speed maneuvering (or squeeze the brake lightly to keep the mnotor off). Sure, I lose the seamless ability to pedal from 0 mph to 20+ mph wth no flicking of buttons, but it's like shifting. I like flicking the shifters and adjusting the PAS levels. At higher speeds, where both you and the motor are both making the bike move, not a big difference in pedal feel, in my opinion. Certainly not worth the added $250 it would cost me to buy the T/S hardware in my conversions.

If you're buying a commercial ebike, and the T/S fits the budget. Do it. It will make it simpler for others to ride your bike, as it will work like a regular bike. Slight learning curve needed for cadence sensors ... mainly that slow speed maneuvering. It's all about learning to use the brake inhibitors with both kinds of bikes to keep it from unintended acceleraton.

If the goal is not to sweat and have a pedal assist bike, rim brakes work. If the goal is to have a quasi e-motorcycle and dice it out with traffic, you will want the best brakes, the bigger batteries, etc.

 

[venexiano]

Thank you all! THank you harris for the hint on the brake. I am still a bit confused with the cadence sensor. You are saying that "A cadence sensor ebike will want to hit 10 mph or more as soon as the pedal movement is confirme ". But lets pick for example the Ride1up 500 which has 3 Levels of pedal assist and cadence sensor. Are you saying that most likely level 1 brings to 10 mph, level 2 to 15 and level 3 to 20 mph? Like when you choose a level the motor works his ass off to reach that speed? I thought there was also a way to set the speed independently from the chosen level but I might be wrong. In the latter case I could just set the speed to 5 mph then increase it...but might be more complicated I guess...throttle would be better in that case I guess.

 

[harryS]

Yep. I am saying level 1 probably brings you up to 10-12 mph on the ride1up.

Some controllers allow users to change the motor current for a given level. Not generally available on a commercial ebike, as they don't need you doing that. Several active posters on this forum own the ride1up, so you might how they ride in the brand specific forum.

 

[ez3putt]

I have only had my bike for two weeks, so I am probably not even qualified to answer this, but after reading these posts I went out and tested mine. My bike has 9 levels of PAS. At level 1, it tops out at 6 mph with almost no noticeable surge and requires effort to pedal even in gear 1. At level 2, PAS stops at 8 mph and very little pedal resistance in gear 1. PAS 3 with virtually no pedal resistance and a noticeable surge gets me to 11 mph. PAS 4 was 14 mph and I could not pedal fast enough in low gears to get past that speed. I had to stop at level 4 today because the speed limit in our community is 15 mph and this time of year the condo nazis are out in full force.

I agree with HarryS that slow speed maneuvering is better using throttle only and for higher speeds I also like to fiddle with the gears and PAS level. My bike is a class 3, cadence, and 20 mph limit using throttle only. I hope this helps and good luck with your search.

 

[indianajo]

If the goal is not to sweat and have a pedal assist bike, rim brakes work. .

IMHO, not in the rain. I hit the side of a car that ran a stop sign from 3 mph after I stopped & restarted. In the rain. With rim brakes.
My kit pedal assist has a minimum speed of about 11 on PAS1. Accelerates to that speed with about 500 W if you move the cranks past 2 magnets, even backwards. 11 mph is a scary speed on the rutted berms of Hwy 3 that I ride to my summer camp.
I did a conversion of a disk brake bike, left, with 17.5 AH battery and 1000 W dd motor for $830. No display no pas. The $120 display on the $350 geared hub motor kit in a previous conversion produced nothing but stupid numbers, anyway. No way I was going that fast or that far, and the ****y battery always had 4 bars before the display blanked out permanently. In US if converting buy a battery from luna, in CA grintech, in HK em3ev.
Bargain brand bikes worth cruising the websites IMHO are Magnum, Juiced, Trek, Giant, Rad. I didn't spend a lot of time looking because I didn't want a custom battery and didn't want another frame cluttering up my garage. Besides, bike shop stock frames are always too big for me, I had to have the one left shipped in from CA. Some other short leg person posted on here, there wasn't a 18" frame in stock in the whole country in the bike she wanted.

 

[harryS]

Going back to your original question about electrifying a bike you already own, you have some modest requirements there in the other other forum post. You want a 20 mph ebike with about a 20 mile range, that you can pedal. Could be done for $600 and up, depending on how how much you spend on battery.

Meanwhile, let's answer one of your side questions from first post. A USB port on a battery is for powering USB appliances. You cannot charge a battery thru the port. It's only 5V and is output only.

Back to the kits. You should watch the 30 minute video presentation/ "Why an Ebike Kit". The presenter started a successful and innovative ebike company, and you could hardly do better than with some of his products. I don't own any of his kits though.

https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/why-an-ebike-kit.27333/

I generally agree with most of his points. I did not watch what he said about torque sensors. He is the about the only guy who sells them for kits. There are at least 150 million ebikes in China that don't have torque sensors though.

My first ebike conversion in 2015. Kit/motor was $480. EBay. Decals were not water proof. Steel mountain bike from 1992. 500W motor. 36V10AH battery. LED display. Three level PAS. 20 mph. It's basic, but it's walking around money.


My last ebike conversion a year ago. Motor/controller $275. LCD with 5 level PAS, I get to see speed, wattage, and voltage with the LCD. Also 20 mph. Same 500W motor. It's an aluminum Schwinn mountainous style bike with a steel suspension fork. I didn't buy the bike. Neighbor tossed it after his son grew up. I run it on 36V, but it will do about 24 mph on 48V. At 13 mph in assist level 1, I may be doing a lot of the work, but it's easy work, and I've gone over 50 miles on the same 36V 100AH battery. Some owners don't see the point of that, They want to go 18 mph w/o pedaling. That's boring to me.

 

[Dewey]

The big change is that I can ride those T/S ebikes slowly with minimal pressure on the pedals.

I agree with that, I have a BBS01 kit motor that has just a pedal cadence sensor, but last year I test rode a Gazelle EasyFlow with a torque sensor for about a month - took me by surprise the first time when I realised if I kept my foot on the pedal at a stop sign the motor activated, whereas for my BBS01 I use the throttle for take off and low speed manouvering and the cadence sensor otherwise.

 

[AZOldTech]

Thank you all! THank you harris for the hint on the brake. I am still a bit confused with the cadence sensor. You are saying that "A cadence sensor ebike will want to hit 10 mph or more as soon as the pedal movement is confirme ". But lets pick for example the Ride1up 500 which has 3 Levels of pedal assist and cadence sensor. Are you saying that most likely level 1 brings to 10 mph, level 2 to 15 and level 3 to 20 mph? Like when you choose a level the motor works his ass off to reach that speed? I thought there was also a way to set the speed independently from the chosen level but I might be wrong. In the latter case I could just set the speed to 5 mph then increase it...but might be more complicated I guess...throttle would be better in that case I guess.

Since I have a Ride1Up, the throttle of the Ride1up will take you to 100% speed (24-25mph when battery is full) no matter what level you have on the display. And IMO that is the correct way the throttle should work and be programed on all ebikes. I had two other ebikes that limited the throttle to the level you were in up to 20mph and I hated that. But Ride1Up does it the correct way IMO. Displays exist with max of 3 levels, max of 5 levels and max of 9 levels. No matter the # of levels the best way to think of the levels roughly is [(100%/# of levels)* level #] of max speed (for example for a 3 level display of the Ride1Up you have at level 1 = 100%/3= 33.33%*Level 1 of max speed with full battery 25mph = 8.33mph, at level 2 = 66.66% of 25mph and level 3 = 100% of 25mph. As your battery full percentage declines so will the battery voltage and so will your max speed drop from 24-25mph to 21-22mph).
Again, talking about the Ride1up, I suggest you get the extra $55 LCD display which shows speed and a lot more information than the stock 3 level display and it also supports 9 levels. So with the LCD display you will have roughly 100%/9 = 11.11% * level 1-9 of max speed. At any time, no matter what level you are in (including level 0) you can use the variable throttle to hit up to max speed.

When you are just pedaling (meaning no throttle), the max speed will always head to the level you are in from the formula above that I posted. So if you want lower speed while pedaling you decrease a level, and if you want higher speed you increase a level. So a 9 level display will give you many more gradients of pedelec max speed than a 3 level display.

BTW, if for some reason you don't want to ever use the throttle, just unplug the connector to it (follow the cable coming out of the throttle about 2in and you will see a bulge where the male and female connectors meet, so just pull them apart). That will disable the throttle but everything else will work just fine.

Hope that helps.

 

[stanmiller]

...slow speed maneuvering is better using throttle only and for higher speeds I also like to fiddle with the gears and PAS level.

Well said! A thumb throttle is a launch tool.

Maybe you're stopped at the bottom of a hill and need a boost. But it's also valuable for navigating at slow speeds (say on a side walk around hedges and whatnot). I also use mine when leaning into a turn and the inside foot is not on the pedal (but gliding near the ground) and I want to maintain propulsion.
View of the PAS as another chainring. I regularly PAS 'shift' up or down for the conditions. On sidewalks I'm at 1. On the trail, 3 or more.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

Aventon PACE 500- $1399. Way better than ride1up.

Or if you insist on torque sensor, then Surface 604 Colt or Rook, is the only ebike worth looking at priced below $1800. It's $1799.